New competition for Tesla, The Jaguar I-Pace

[Sisko - DS9]

I agree, especially on the looks part. I look at my S and I see the most gorgeous car in the world.

Others have told me it looks plain and boring. I disagree but respect that the S isn't for everyone. That's life.

Prior to buying my S, the Jag XF was on my short list but once I drove the S, it came off the list quickly!!!

Good afternoon all, the various designs look good. The Audi looks good to. I think this spurs choice for the consumer. I just think Tesla is allowing itself to be a case of "...the coach allowing the players to run the team..." The I-Pace is based off Tesla. All these manufactures have used Tesla as their design/engineering platform to build off of. Tesla needs to take a step back and work on their current models in the queue and make them the envy of all again. Tesla has the S, X, 3, Semi, new Roadster, coming soon Y & pickup. They are spreading themselves too thin.

if I were executive at Tesla I would say STOP: Set up teams for all current models S,3,X,Y, Semi and new Roadster. Set them on task and have those cars up to exceed market expectations (like a bigger battery for X; maybe like the new roadster size 200kWh - people want to tow and pull trailers for camping and travel). X needs that to have normal range while towing. I would like an X for the towing capability; but not if they insist on t I would put the pick-up truck aside until 2021 and concentrate on the current models they already have.

 

[roblab]

My wife wants the model Y. She does not want a large SUV like the X. She said the moment Tesla releases the Y for reservations, she will go down to the store and put in a reservation. The problem that will kill it is if the interior controls are going to be like Model 3. If it is just that center screen and that's all; she will buy something else. We want to go full electric, my Tesla Model S has made the difference for her. She was not onboard originally, but since we have had the S she has come around. She loves the model 3 but not the single screen thing.

So, has she driven the 3? The "single screen thing" works really well. One place to look for all your information. Why have it spread around like they used to do with gauges? Why have buttons and switches that are rarely used clutter up the dash?

And this recurring threat from people thinking they will buy a Tesla, "If it doesn't have ______, she will buy something else". You do realize that there are several hundred thousand people waiting in line, and if you or your wife step out, no one will care, right? Yet it sounds like people think the line, "If Tesla (or Toyota, or Honda, or Ford?) doesn't make their car to my specifications, I will never buy one" is going to scare Tesla into changing their design.

You could buy fake knobs and stick them to the dashboard.

 

[TrevTremaine]

So, has she driven the 3? The "single screen thing" works really well. One place to look for all your information. Why have it spread around like they used to do with gauges? Why have buttons and switches that are rarely used clutter up the dash?

And this recurring threat from people thinking they will buy a Tesla, "If it doesn't have ______, she will buy something else". You do realize that there are several hundred thousand people waiting in line, and if you or your wife step out, no one will care, right? Yet it sounds like people think the line, "If Tesla (or Toyota, or Honda, or Ford?) doesn't make their car to my specifications, I will never buy one" is going to scare Tesla into changing their design.

You could buy fake knobs and stick them to the dashboard.

Well, for one thing it's easier to see important information like speed and warning messages if it's right in front of you (ie. primary vs secondary information). With so much information presented on a large single screen, it requires time to find those items - ie. your attention is diverted from the road for longer periods of time. A better design is actually to present the most important messages on the windshield directly. The HUDs on BMWs are truly useful, especially since it includes mapping directions on the screen - of all the things I miss that would be THE one. The same issue applies with functions that really should have buttons for it - HVAC, wipers, sunroof. Yes, I do like the minimalist design, but it's perhaps a bit too far - particularly on the Model 3.

Until we get to fully-autonomous or at least the car is fully functional to control itself when attention is diverted (and prevent an accident), let's keep it at the safest level possible. It's senseless to do otherwise.

 

[sakimano]

I think we can all complain about every car. Rear headroom? go sit in a Mercedes CLS, the true S class competitor. Awful back there, no headroom.

Point is compare the Model S to the other electric /PHEV cars for sale in 2013 for example:

Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, Gee Whiz, prius...these are not cars you'd want. You might buy one and make use of it but they were more like goofy little experiments to try to make electric viable. Really they were largely single use cars - short range errand runners for people who don't mind dying in traffic accidents when their plastic milkjug strength doors caved in on them (although they'd at least be low speed accidents because performance was horrible). Even the Tesla Roadster which was a gamechanger for having a HUGE battery affording the car range and performance unlike anything else on market...it was still a collection of large sacrifices due to its size and form. And it was $250,000.

The tesla model S was a gamechanger as it was big, comfortable, you could fit 4 people in it (or 7 in a pinch), and it looked great. You could also port loads of luggage around and because of its size, it had room for a massive battery and could go 400 kms on a charge (and could go veyr quickly making it even more useful). Because they made it this big and fast, it appealed to buyers of $100,000 german luxobarges and crossed over nicely. It was interesting, and still is, and it made people realise going electric didn't have to be a headache, an embarrassment or a sacrifice.

 

[de Vere]

I prefer the minimalist/modernist interior of the Tesla models, and as I live in a mid-century home that should be no surprise. The Model 3 is a wonder of modernist design.

Huge buttons, knobs, etc. like that on the Jaguar and Porsche models really turn me off. I'm not a Victorian. The sparsity of visual intrusion in a Tesla is a great part of the appeal for me, in addition to the supercharger network, LOL. Recall that the modernist creed is about people and personalities, not stuff.

Modernism is, among other things, a reaction to Victorian clutter. Plenty of personal transportation alternatives are or will become available in the market to those who prefer a more archaic design, with enough of buttons and knobs to satisfy the most discerning end-user. Hopefully Tesla does not go down that path, although I would make an exception for the inclusion of door pockets on the S.

 

[pete8314]

I think the e-Tron looks nice. The i-Pace beat the X (75 & 100) to 60. Regardless of aesthetic preference, the competition is finally warming up. This was also Elon's intent.

Tesla has to it's advantage:

• 5yr head-start
• Not encumbered by having to maintain and develop ICE cars
• Not encumbered by 50+ years of building cars (this is really a pro and a con, but it's clear GM & co are not as nimble)
• Not encumbered by dealership networks
  
• No real union
• Margins
• Modern factories
• Extreme Vertical integration
• The charging network (the jewel in the crown, for now)
• Arguably are one of the leaders in self-driving
• The telemetry from the Tesla fleet
• OTA update capability
• Elon

Against them:

• Interior designs that probably don't appeal to the mass-market as much as the stuff coming from Merc, Audi, Jag etc
• The Valley culture - key people come and go, highly competitive, very expensive
• Still not a well-known brand
• General concerns over the liquidity of the company (regardless of whether it's FUD, or true)

Bottom line, I hope Tesla are very busy figuring out how to leverage the 5yr head-start they have. The charging network is well established, but proprietary...if the others gang-up and build their own, they could lose that advantage quickly. In 5yrs time, Tesla could be an absolute powerhouse, or a minor-player that's known for finally starting the switch to electric motoring. I really think now is a pivotal moment for Tesla, but, they've had quite a few of those

 

[David99]

Tesla has to it's advantage:

• 5yr head-start
• Not encumbered by having to maintain and develop ICE cars
• Not encumbered by 50+ years of building cars (this is really a pro and a con, but it's clear GM & co are not as nimble)
• Not encumbered by dealership networks
  
• No real union
• Margins
• Modern factories
• Extreme Vertical integration
• The charging network (the jewel in the crown, for now)
• Arguably are one of the leaders in self-driving
• The telemetry from the Tesla fleet
• OTA update capability
• Elon

Against them:

• Interior designs that probably don't appeal to the mass-market as much as the stuff coming from Merc, Audi, Jag etc
• The Valley culture - key people come and go, highly competitive, very expensive
• Still not a well-known brand
• General concerns over the liquidity of the company (regardless of whether it's FUD, or true)

Tesla doesn't have a 5 year head start just because they started 5 years ago. Any brand that decides to make an EV now starts with the same technology Tesla has at this time. The other car brands don't have to learn how to make a car, how to build a factory, how to find workers. They have all that. Tesla had 5 hard years learning what others already had and knew.

Producing and selling ICE cars is a big advantage as it brings in money. They are profitable with a different product that is very similar. That's an advantage. Being a successful car manufacturer is not a disadvantage, it is on many levels an advantage.

 

[pete8314]

Tesla doesn't have a 5 year head start just because they started 5 years ago. Any brand that decides to make an EV now starts with the same technology Tesla has at this time. The other car brands don't have to learn how to make a car, how to build a factory, how to find workers. They have all that. Tesla had 5 hard years learning what others already had and knew.

Producing and selling ICE cars is a big advantage as it brings in money. They are profitable with a different product that is very similar. That's an advantage. Being a successful car manufacturer is not a disadvantage, it is on many levels an advantage.

Not sure I completely agree. Of course, Tesla didn't start 5yrs ago, but that's more or less when the first mass-produced EV in the world hit the market in volume. No other auto-maker has 5yrs of telemetry, or experience of essentially building an iPad on wheels, which, arguably, is where this is going; the future is about software, not the hardware, which as you say, is easy enough to replicate, if you have the supply-chain. Traditional ICE manufacturers are awful at writing software, at least the stuff the consumer sees, which is why most of them have bailed and gone to Carplay etc.

 

[Sisko - DS9]

So, has she driven the 3? The "single screen thing" works really well. One place to look for all your information. Why have it spread around like they used to do with gauges? Why have buttons and switches that are rarely used clutter up the dash?

And this recurring threat from people thinking they will buy a Tesla, "If it doesn't have ______, she will buy something else". You do realize that there are several hundred thousand people waiting in line, and if you or your wife step out, no one will care, right? Yet it sounds like people think the line, "If Tesla (or Toyota, or Honda, or Ford?) doesn't make their car to my specifications, I will never buy one" is going to scare Tesla into changing their design.

You could buy fake knobs and stick them to the dashboard.

I agree the single screen thing is VERY subjective. Never said otherwise. You may like it, but you do not have a moratorium on what works for everyone. Yes they have several hundred thousand people waiting in line, but I'm willing to bet that a large portion are people both respect and will give Elon the benefit of the doubt that this one screen configuration works. However, there will be a percentage of those who will not like it after a few weeks; but they will live with it to be a member of the Tesla owner's club. Also I think there are a lot of fans who will buy anything Tesla produces as well. Your line about "...if my wife steps out of line nobody will care..." Seriously! what's your point?? Firstly, I do not have a 3 on order; I said she is waiting to order a Y. And I am not saying companies have to build to my specs; all I am saying is as I spend $150K on a vehicle, the interior should reflect that level of cost. In Canada the Tesla is well into 100K minimum (base 75D). It costs us more to buy the vehicles.

Relax, everyone has a right to voice opinion; I'm just sharing my opinion and I respect yours, but the collateral add-libs are not necessary. This is what this forum is for, isn't it?

 

[Tiger]

Video - Model X vs Jaguar I-Pace drag race commercial

 

[alloverx]

"Modern factories" is a Telsa advantage? Not sure it is an advantage over other factories right now. Possibly in 10 years time when its fully automated and owned by Geely. I would say its a disadvantage right now as they dont have capacity and cant agree with the Chinese on building a factory in China.

 

[TampaRich]

I watch the competition coming out and I know Tesla is better. I know Jaguar put in a start/stop button and those are archaic, but they are looking to grab people who will feel more at home in "familiar" setting while integrating new tech to them without them really noticing. They are employing some social psychology into their execution. I agree the button is outdated. but watch the videos below and see how they integrate everything Tesla does yet still have the start/stop. Remember the Nissan Leaf has a button like that too... they just do not label it with the words start/stop. Electrek website, has a great article on the new I-Pace. Price ranges from $87,500 USD to $103,000 USD.

The following links have to do with the new I-Pace; you can see how Tesla has set the bar for them and they are trying hard to at least reach it and try and exceed it (they are all like 2/3 minutes long, very quick).

Big buttons, small screen. No thanks.

 

[Phillip L]

Being a successful car manufacturer is not a disadvantage, it is on many levels an advantage.

A really interesting discuss on this topic is here on this forum: Tesla, EVs, and the auto industry’s response (sorry I am on an iPad and don’t think I can link it). It is under General Forum/Electric Vehicle

 

[ZooSean]

Why no one is talking about the price point for this? If is align with the Model 3, okay, I will seriously consider an alternative to Tesla. But looks like its price will align with Model X? Sorry, I don't think so..

 

[bandido]

Hopefully not a rant, but I like many have my concerns. Tesla has been a game changer, but needs to start acting at least a teeny bit like a regular car company. I love my car, but with each passing year wonder what will change and when. ANY other car company or tech company has a predictable update pattern. Tesla makes random, SIGNIFICANT unannounced changes to it's vehicles. We are all "waiting" for a Model S refresh, but have no idea if/when. We all want HUD, blindspot monitor, 360 camers, phone integration, better nav, etc, but do not know when or if. This may sound like a small issue, but it is one of the biggest reasons "regular" car folks replace their cars, the new "look" or Tech. I could have a new Model S, but why? Looks the same as in 2012, except for the nose? Performance is amazing, but interior is clearly getting dated. Big car companies Volvo, Audi, BMW and Jaguar have BILLIONS to throw at electric cars if they feel there is real market or need to flex. I have a Model 3 reservation that could have been built already, but I know in less than 1 year the car will have some major unannounced change instead making me wait until I need a new car...Tesla needs to adapt at least a bit and motivate current owners to get another...

 

[arnis]

Why no one is talking about the price point for this?

Because it is Tesla forum. Majority of here us are pro-Tesla no matter what.
It's not easy to swallow that iPace is cheaper than X. While having some better tech as well.
The fact that iPace is smaller is a thing, but not THE THING.

 

[sitter_k]

Well, for one thing it's easier to see important information like speed and warning messages if it's right in front of you (ie. primary vs secondary information). With so much information presented on a large single screen, it requires time to find those items - ie. your attention is diverted from the road for longer periods of time. A better design is actually to present the most important messages on the windshield directly. The HUDs on BMWs are truly useful, especially since it includes mapping directions on the screen - of all the things I miss that would be THE one. The same issue applies with functions that really should have buttons for it - HVAC, wipers, sunroof. Yes, I do like the minimalist design, but it's perhaps a bit too far - particularly on the Model 3.

Until we get to fully-autonomous or at least the car is fully functional to control itself when attention is diverted (and prevent an accident), let's keep it at the safest level possible. It's senseless to do otherwise.

"She doesn't understand Tesla then! Go drive an ice with 1000 buttons" - Tesla enthusiast

So it's either 1000 or nothing?
Why not 10-20 really important buttons?
See Volvo...

 

[Lasttoy]

My question, where are they going to fast charge? At home? Good luck. Even with 220 volt 50 amp will take all night.

 

[arnis]

My question, where are they going to fast charge? At home

Why do you need to fast charge at home or at work? Or anywhere near your home ?

 

[ZooSean]

Because it is Tesla forum. Majority of here us are pro-Tesla no matter what.
It's not easy to swallow that iPace is cheaper than X. While having some better tech as well.
The fact that iPace is smaller is a thing, but not THE THING.

Cars are priced according to their size? If this one is smaller than X, should the price comparing with Model 3? Another case is the superior brand makes a premium, but I did not see jaguar being superior brand than Tesla, so they could charge Model 3 size car with Model X price..