because
because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand nor the context of the discussion
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
NEW Model 3 Highland review!
- Thread starter Braumin
- Start date
Highland 100% has cheaper interior parts. Chevy-level cheap. As in - way too crappy looking for me to want to be in one.
I really don't give two sh*ts what Munro says.
Every car manufacturer upgrades parts in model refreshes. That's nothing new.
Usually, those updates are for the better.
In the case of Highland, I found them to be for the worse:
- Dumb and user-unfriendly removal of turn signal and gear shift stalks.
- Even cheaper interior plastics all around.
- Cheaper "fabric" material in areas you touch, where suede used to be.
Downgrading models with a refresh is certainly a new concept for the automotive industry.
Downgrading models while raising prices is extra-dumb.
No wonder Tesla sales took a dive last quarter.
I test drove Highland with an eye towards getting one for my teen driver.
We walked out of the Tesla dealership with a firm impression that Highland is completely unfit for purpose. We will be buying him another OEM's EV instead.
a
It is hardly new. In the late 1990s, some Japan-based car companies, feeling exchange rate pressures, cut costs to the point that some of the redesigned models were worse than their predecessors. More recently, there were some cars in the recession era that were widely seen as downgrades from their predecessors (e.g. 2012 Honda Civic). There were also cheapened trim lines for lower prices like the 2009 Nissan Versa base model for under $10k (some called it the "Recession Edition").
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
So I stopped in a Tesla dealer today and test drove a model three Highland. The suspension lived up to its hype as well as the improved noise reduction measures. The removal of the stalks, however, is a huge negative. Shifting on the screen is cumbersome and worse in every respect. Likewise, using buttons for turn signals is a significant step backwards. If nothing else, there are far less convenient to use and accessible from far few hand positions. It is also much more difficult to quickly. Activate a turn signal if your hand is not positioned right next to the buttons.
Bottom line – the stalkless configuration is inferior in every aspect. There is no way I would buy a car without stocks or pay any extra money not to have them if this was a cost saving measured by Tesla then it’s a great example of a company cheeping out and significantly compromising their product. If it’s from Elon‘s “futurism“ then it’s nothing but someone being so blinded by wanting to be “futuristic“ that they lose sight of the fact that functionality should always trump a futuristic design.
Bottom line – the stalkless configuration is inferior in every aspect. There is no way I would buy a car without stocks or pay any extra money not to have them if this was a cost saving measured by Tesla then it’s a great example of a company cheeping out and significantly compromising their product. If it’s from Elon‘s “futurism“ then it’s nothing but someone being so blinded by wanting to be “futuristic“ that they lose sight of the fact that functionality should always trump a futuristic design.
Don't buy it then. problem solved.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Not going to - and fortunately I'm more interested in a Model Y than a Model 3, but if I were interested in a Model 3 I'd have to either buy used or buy another make and that's a problem for Tesla. They make a stupid design decision, move away from an interface that has been an industry standard for 100 years for no reason and drive away customers. Not a good business strategy.
As I've said before, there is no aspect in which the stalkless design is superior. At best it is equivalent for some people. I've seen people argue that "Tesla is looking towards a self driving future," but that's not the present and the majority people don't use FSD. I'd argue that most of them still want to drive themselves. Regardless, it's not at all clear if/when FSD will truly be level 3 anyway.
Another issue is, in my experience with FSD I often want to force it to change lanes and you need to hold the stalk down to do that. holding down a button while FSD is moving the steering wheel is difficult to impossible. The buttons also can't be used with gloves on, an issue for people in northern climes.
Last edited:
The thread is titled <NEW Model 3 Highland review!>.
Not <I am buying Highland no matter what>.
Start a new thread about how you adore Highland, and how it has no drawbacks.
Problem solved!
I am glad about the suspension and the noise reduction. My older version was ok I those respects, but I am happy to see refinements. I could definitely get used to shifting on screen and could probably get used to the turn signal buttons on the wheel. I will certainly be considering a new Model 3 when my current car reaches the end of its useful life with me. That said, my 4 year old Model 3 drives like it is new, so it may be some time before I give it up. Best car that I have owned in 35 years of having one.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
So thinking about it and the functions handled by the stalks and how they change:
Turn signaling - the buttons are convenient only if your hand is in a specific spot on the wheel. They move with the wheel so they're not in a consistent spot. if your hand isn't on the wheel at the 8-9 o'clock position you need to search for them. If you have gloves or a band-aid on they don't work. Holding the button down in FSD is problematic. Verdict: inferior
(As an anecdotal example, I was driving, started to get turn and then realized I was in the wrong lane and needed to merge back. I had started to turn and my hands were not in the 'standard' location on the wheel and I had a split second to check traffic and activate the turn signal to let people know I was merging back before it was too late. The button utterly failed in this situation.)
Wipers - The button works in the same manner as the button on the stalk but is moved to the right side. The same issues apply here as listed above but the need to activate the wipers at a specific time is less than with the turn signal. Verdict: slightly inferior
High beams: Pushing the button flashes the hight beams, holding the button for a set duration turns them on. If you want to flash your beams (to let someone know they have their high beams on for example) the stalk is easier to find. 'double clicking' the button may be a tad easier. Turning high beams on with the stalk is a quicker action. The other drawbacks with the buttons still apply. High beams are not a frequent use item so the impact is minimal. Verdict: slightly inferior but likely not enough to quibble about.
Gear Selection: For the stalkless a control appears on the screen when you press the brake. You swipe up for drive, down for reverse. While driving you press and hold for park. Neutral is a separate button lower down. There are also physical buttons above the rear view mirror. There is also an auto-shift feature. I haven't tried this to know how good it is. (Based on my experience with other automatic features Tesla has introduced I'm skeptical but this is conjecture on my part.) To activate the emergency brake while driving you press and hold the stalk button. For the stalkless version you have to press and hold P on the screen. The stalk is clearly more convenient, particularly if you're maneuvering as you do with parallel parking. If you need to use the emergency brake reaching and holding a soft button on the screen is problematic but this is such a rare use case that I don't think it comes into play. Verdict: Inferior
TACC/AP/FSD Activation: has moved from the stalk to the right scroll wheel button. (this also necessitated a separate button for voice commands.) it can be argued that using the stalk for both gear selection and TACC/FSD/AP activation is confusing so in this respect, separating them makes it more clear. (Personally, I've never had an issue and I haven't seen reports of issues.) Moving the voice command button make it slightly less convenient but not enough to worry about. Verdict: Neutral to slight improvement.
So yeah. no improvement, clear drawbacks = bad design.
Turn signaling - the buttons are convenient only if your hand is in a specific spot on the wheel. They move with the wheel so they're not in a consistent spot. if your hand isn't on the wheel at the 8-9 o'clock position you need to search for them. If you have gloves or a band-aid on they don't work. Holding the button down in FSD is problematic. Verdict: inferior
(As an anecdotal example, I was driving, started to get turn and then realized I was in the wrong lane and needed to merge back. I had started to turn and my hands were not in the 'standard' location on the wheel and I had a split second to check traffic and activate the turn signal to let people know I was merging back before it was too late. The button utterly failed in this situation.)
Wipers - The button works in the same manner as the button on the stalk but is moved to the right side. The same issues apply here as listed above but the need to activate the wipers at a specific time is less than with the turn signal. Verdict: slightly inferior
High beams: Pushing the button flashes the hight beams, holding the button for a set duration turns them on. If you want to flash your beams (to let someone know they have their high beams on for example) the stalk is easier to find. 'double clicking' the button may be a tad easier. Turning high beams on with the stalk is a quicker action. The other drawbacks with the buttons still apply. High beams are not a frequent use item so the impact is minimal. Verdict: slightly inferior but likely not enough to quibble about.
Gear Selection: For the stalkless a control appears on the screen when you press the brake. You swipe up for drive, down for reverse. While driving you press and hold for park. Neutral is a separate button lower down. There are also physical buttons above the rear view mirror. There is also an auto-shift feature. I haven't tried this to know how good it is. (Based on my experience with other automatic features Tesla has introduced I'm skeptical but this is conjecture on my part.) To activate the emergency brake while driving you press and hold the stalk button. For the stalkless version you have to press and hold P on the screen. The stalk is clearly more convenient, particularly if you're maneuvering as you do with parallel parking. If you need to use the emergency brake reaching and holding a soft button on the screen is problematic but this is such a rare use case that I don't think it comes into play. Verdict: Inferior
TACC/AP/FSD Activation: has moved from the stalk to the right scroll wheel button. (this also necessitated a separate button for voice commands.) it can be argued that using the stalk for both gear selection and TACC/FSD/AP activation is confusing so in this respect, separating them makes it more clear. (Personally, I've never had an issue and I haven't seen reports of issues.) Moving the voice command button make it slightly less convenient but not enough to worry about. Verdict: Neutral to slight improvement.
So yeah. no improvement, clear drawbacks = bad design.
Fair review which I would categorize more as opinion. Can’t debate that. As you shared your “opinion”, I will share mine having used it for 1 year. Took minimal time to learn. Auto shift I find to be a huge plus. 95% of the time it always automatically picks the correct direction without doing anything. Now that they are implementing a new update to increase that feature to Never require touching the screen or arm wrestle a mechanical bar I find it a perfect improvement. Have yet to have an issue with turn signal's gloves or not as I tend to signal Before changing lanes. As for the merge example, have yet to find a lane merge attempt that required more than a 5 degree rotation of the wheel? Wiper button. I must be special as I have it set to auto and like the brights have not changed it since delivery. Yes, they did have a software moment when that was fouled but like all things Tesla they go back and address the issue. Some prefer to not forget missteps, I tend to not care. Life’s to short. End of day, we each have our own opinion and acceptance of change. If “change is bad” is the mindset, this is definitely Not the car for that view.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Good to know about auto shift. Like I said, I've been through enough of Tesla's 'we can do it automatically' escapades to be more than a bit cynical, but if this one works, awesome. I've found switching gears with the stalk to be totally automatic. I don't have to look or even think about it - my hand just reaches to the stalk and taps it.
The lane change issue was also the least important issue with the turn signals. Like I said, my experience having to merge back into traffic was a far more critical (and typical) use failure.
You've been around long enough to know about Tesla's auto-wiper follies, though. IME, the current incarnation is pretty good but there have been many versions that have been down right abysmal. The thing is, on more than one occasion Tesla has made them worse. There was at least 6 months during which I never used the 'auto' setting because it was so bad; I would simply tap the stalk every time I wanted to wipe the window.
I"m not a 'Change is bad' person, nor am I a 'change is good' person. Instead, I'm of the opinion that change should be for the better. That argument really can't be made for removing the stalks.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Remember - I'm comparing it to a 2020 Model Y! I did test drive a 2024 MY and the suspensions of that car and the M3 Highland were pretty close. The Highland was noticeably quieter, though, and the ventilated seats are also a nice upgrade. The ride and noise levels actually reminded me of my Audi.
Destiny1701
22’ M3LR ‘DrkNite’/ 22’ MYP BliueRocket
M.
Reduce the psi of the Y tires to 38 and voila…matches 3 highland… can’t wait to see Y juniper
Not speaking for Sleepydoc but the 2020 MY had horrible suspension. Nothing compares to it and no trick short of a complete suspension replacement would fix it. Loved that car but it was a rough ride.M.
Reduce the psi of the Y tires to 38 and voila…matches 3 highland… can’t wait to see Y juniper
whitex
Well-Known Member
How exactly do you override a bad choice of direction by the car? Voice command? Or are you talking about FSD driving all by itself, no driver interaction required?
Last edited:
whitex
Well-Known Member
Drove Teslas for a decade. Auto wipers NEVER worked well around Seattle where it mists a lot, so maybe they do go back to fix, but not so soon. So sure, perhaps in another 10 years Tesla might figure it out (though I'd be willing to bet if it requires new cameras, they are not paying for a retrofit of cameras or other sensors to make auto-wipers work), but in the meantime, people need an easy to use solution. By your logic that Tesla eventually fixes things, you don't need stalks, buttons, or even the steering wheel at all - since Elon claim they are about to enable Full Self Driving where you won't need to steer or signal or turn wipers on yourself. So if someone gets a Tesla with steering wheel missing, just tell them to use pliers because Tesla will go back and address the need for a steering wheel "sooner than anyone thinks" (Elon's term when talking about FSD) .
Last edited:
Use the screen to correct it.
The auto direction was terrible before, selected the wrong direction more often than the correct.
Last update made it better so slightly more correct ones than wrong.
But now they added the function to the auto direction to make a new selection each time you touch the brake, rendering the car selecting forward when beeing in reverse during a tight parking. It is still very very bad and still at a level that never should be out on the roads.( 2024.20.1 on a MSP).
Someone need to tell Tesla to make things work before the put it in cars that people use on a daily basis.
Tjis would be Elon Musk / Tesla selling a parachute:
”-The thing is, it is not the final version but we would like people to start using it and then we can develope it step by step”
Similar threads
- Article
