If someone offered you an iPhone 13 and iPhone 10 for the same price, which would you take? They both can browse the web, play games, text and make phone calls just fine.
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New Model Y Performance, No Ryzen
- Thread starter toothfixeralex
- Start date
Except that scenario never happens. The 13 is always more expensive.....and more hyped.
Yet you're right, they both do the same thing, without much real difference.
Hence my point.
pepperoni
Member
You’re talking yourself in circles, man. You tell us that the Tesla is “a PC” then tell us the processor speed doesn’t matter. You said this car is going to be “obsolete” a few years from now, then when I point out that I would like to keep it for 10 years you tell me it will “still work just fine,” which doesn’t sound obsolete to me. (For comparison, my old BlackBerry phone from 10 years ago is no longer supported by any carrier. That’s what I call obsolete!) Now you’re taking @Daniel L’s iPhone analogy and telling us that scenario never happens, and yet it is right now! Tesla is selling Ys with the new and old processor side by side for the exact same price. Several years from now, Tesla will be pushing their latest software update to one of these cars and not the other. Tell me again that it won’t matter at that time because they are both the same “without much real difference.” Or is it because they are both obsolete? I’ve lost track.
There are two crowds here. People who care about the “gadgets” and those who just want to drive. It is rare that a product would bring car culture and tech culture together, but here it is. I have plenty of friends rocking old phones because it does what they want, which is make calls. There are plenty of people who an Atom is plenty for because CPUs do not affect how the car drives. This is an expensive purchase and everyone should make sure they get what is important to them.
Sorry. You are very wrong. Old PC's do not run 'fine' on modern software. In time, development will expand requiring more horsepower and new features will not be backwards compatible, to preserve existing performance. Example..iOS features are reduced the older the iPhone. x86 is like language...a child (atom) and an adult (ryzen) both speak English. What matters is who can speak the answer to the mathematical question the fastest.
Sounds like you've got roughly zero experience in the field of operating system or even general software development.
Which features exactly that aren't tied to new hardware are "reduced" on older iPhones that materially impact the core functionality of the phone? Do you have specific examples? Apple has been caught throttling performance on older hardware and there are some lawsuits with data backed evidence to support these claims.
This is vastly different than concerns your Tesla will somehow be unusable in 10 years due to aging hardware.
lonnielevi
Member
I understand what you mean. However, the one caveat people should remember is the original MCU with the Tegra chip. The Atom has proved reliable enough, but so did the Tegra based system for a few years. Part of the problem was the low capacity and unreliable eMMC storage they chose to use, but the Tegra just can’t handle the modern interface very well and crashes or becomes unusable a lot.
You can tell so many people here haven’t tried the AMD yet, lol.
Night and Day difference.
Night and Day difference.
lonnielevi
Member
I agree. My wife just received her Ryzen Model 3 a few weeks ago. The smoothness and loading is near instant compared to the Atom.
The Atom is the slowest processor made in modern history. It was created to power cheap netbooks/chromebooks and it does so very poorly. This example shows perhaps the misunderstanding. To compare an A-series process to an atom isn't honest to those looking for good information. Apple's old A11 processor is 3.5x faster than atom E3950 single core and ~2.5x faster multicore. The sheer speed of Apple's processors is the reason why performance hasn't been an issue for so long with iPhones...Intel is not Apple...or AMD for that matter.
Of course Intel will win on power...the chip was intentionally designed to be cheap/slow to reduce power consumption.
So you are actually contradicting yourself...the iPhone 10 is fine to this day because, not in spite of, the processor being many times faster than atom
I have an iPhone 6 with iOS 12.5.5 and can't download the Tesla app because it requires iOS 13 or later. I also have a PC with Window 10 operating system and can't upgrade to Windows 11 because of the older i3 processor. It's for reasons like this that I will not accept any assigned model Y (EDD 3/25 - 3/31) that doesn't have the Ryzen MCU.
Sigh. The material impact of anything is up to the consumer of the device, no? If 2 things cost the same but they are not identical, there is a material impact as the difference exists for a reason.
Here are 15 features not available on iPhone 10...Now you can make the argument these things mean nothing to you personally, but I think claiming a lack of material impact is just dishonest.
- Portrait mode in FaceTime, which blurs your background and puts the focus on you.
- Spatial audio in FaceTime, which makes voices sound like they're coming from the direction in which the people are positioned on the call.
- Voice Isolation mode in FaceTime, which uses machine learning to block out ambient noises like a leaf blower outside or a dog barking in the next room during calls.
- Wide Spectrum mode in FaceTime, which amplifies ambient noises during calls.
- An interactive 3D globe of Earth in the Maps app.
- Immersive walking directions with step-by-step directions shown in augmented reality in the Maps app.
- More detailed maps in cities like San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, and London in the Maps app.
- Live Text for copying and pasting, looking up, or translating text within photos.
- On-device speech processing of Siri requests.
- The ability to make Siri requests offline without an internet connection for timers, alarms, phone calls, messaging, sharing, launching apps, controlling audio playback, and opening settings.
- The ability to swipe up or down while taking a QuickTake video to zoom in or out.
- The ability to add home, hotel, and car keys to the Wallet app.
- On-device keyboard dictation that performs all processing completely offline.
- Continuous keyboard dictation, rather than a limit of 60 seconds per instance.
- New animated backgrounds in the Weather app that more accurately represent the sun position, clouds, and precipitation.
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thesmokingman
Active Member
Dude, you are seriously doubling down? Know when you're wrong man and give it a rest.
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Let's keep some perspective here.
The Tesla OS isn't a general purpose OS like Microsoft Windows or even IOS.
Windows suffers from major bloat and relies on legacy spaghetti code; IOS is long in the tooth, but Apple does a better job of pruning the legacy crap.
Both seek to accommodate a wide variety of features, functions, and "customer what-ifs".
Tesla runs a series of application-specific software, and highly modular code.
What that means is the processing power to run it can be subdivided more efficiently, making the MCU horsepower needs less critical.
This has been a secret to Tesla's ability to 'adapt' when faced with certain component supply issues.
The separate, segmented processing requirements of the MCU make it's selection more flexible. Intel or AMD, they're x86, and Tesla has shown either will suffice.
And again, because of this flexibility, application specificity, and modular code, the lifespan of the "car" is prolonged.
Witness the old MS cars still running well. Yes, they've had to upgrade the FSD proc. But the basic systems are still intact and viable.
Yes, the processing requirements are likely to grow over time. Yes, there's a likelihood of some upgrade needs long term. But they're very manageable.
I realize this goes against the ingrained marketing hype of the last quarter century. That doesn't mean it's wrong.
It's just another sign of Tesla's original thinking, adaptability, and clean-sheet-of-paper smarts.
I agree, they aren't critical features. The real issue is the parity in price. Tesla could offer free or reduced FSD if you get an Intel in 2022 or something like that.
I think you're making the case for the MCU3...whether you know that or not. Especially comparing it to a PC. Which will get obsolete sooner? The lower end bargain CPU or latest gen Intel/AMD? We already know the answer to that. You want to compare it to the iPhone, what happens to IOS updates? You eventually can't get the latest updates...
The thing with Tesla, we don't even know what will be enabled later....If this was a normal car, we'd probably say it doesn't matter because they rarely update anything..but we know with a Tesla, that's not the case...
So if you've bought a PC, and it comes with an Atom or Ryzen (you've already paid for it), you're going to want the Ryzen. You might have your reasons to accept the Atom (can't reject, don't want to wait, etc, etc,etc), people make that decision all the time for different reasons and different things..but you're only helping the argument to want the Ryzen...
And yet we already see performance differences...Your argument would stand up a bit more if there wasn't a difference in performance..but there is. And that is just today. You might be right, maybe this is the extent of what will be needed processing wise...but if given a choice, why would you not pick the one less likely to have feature issues down the line?
I also think any anxiety by users would be helped if they knew it was upgradeable later. I don't imagine this is anything more than a board swap...using the same mount and same connections...
The analogy I used may be too generalized, leading to varied conclusions and I can see that.
A car is a specific, vertical application and while Tesla has imbued it with many aspects of PC's, perhaps that choice of analogy lends itself to too many interpretations.
Even an iPhone / Android analogy isn't applicable, in part because again, there are too many interpretations.... and tribes.
However, the larger points remain - The choice of MCU is not critical, and has limited effect on longevity - it's not a big factor in obsolescence for Tesla cars.
In fact, it's an example of Tesla's flexibility and inherently well-thought thru designs.
Those points are hard to argue against. But emotions don't yield to that.
Not trying to make enemies here, and I'll yield to the flames since again, it's not a critical issue.
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