I read about their technology.
I don't think it's the right way forward.
Topping up with water, replacing batteries after use etc.
To me it's 1 step forward 3 steps back.
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New Roadster Goodies for 2014
- Thread starter hjr
- Start date
I read about their technology.
I don't think it's the right way forward.
Topping up with water, replacing batteries after use etc.
To me it's 1 step forward 3 steps back.
djp
Model 3 Performance
Not going to happen. Elon himself has said that metal-air technology isn't ready for prime time.
First on CNBC: CNBC Transcript: SpaceX CEO Elon Musk Speaks with CNBC's "Closing Bell"
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Did they actually do this, or did they say this was something they could do? Because I've seen zero proof of their claims.
Ok well if that's what Elon explicitly said then my theory is shot.
Now did he say this was going to be a free upgrade or are owners going to have to pay for the new battery pack?
As others said above, Panasonic has a 3.6 Ah cell out now which would give about 370 miles range (based on extrapolating from the Roadster's original, old style, EPA range). They are also due to release a 4.1 Ah cell within a year that would give around 420 miles on the same obsolete test.*
However, as the new EPA test that the Model S and Leaf are measured by gives significantly lower range and is much closer to real world numbers, even this bigger capacity cell would produce a range in the high 200s (about 290 if you go old EPA > NEDC > new EPA) and wouldn't meet the San Francisco to LA objective.
* http://media.nmm.de/54/sonnemann_panasonic_15.11.2012_15.00_26769354.pdf
However, as the new EPA test that the Model S and Leaf are measured by gives significantly lower range and is much closer to real world numbers, even this bigger capacity cell would produce a range in the high 200s (about 290 if you go old EPA > NEDC > new EPA) and wouldn't meet the San Francisco to LA objective.
* http://media.nmm.de/54/sonnemann_panasonic_15.11.2012_15.00_26769354.pdf
thefortunes
Active Member
As mentioned by various people previously, it is fairly easy to meet or exceed the ideal miles which are calc'd at 225 wh/mile (based on the old EPA test?).
While my overall wh/mile in almost 24k miles is 258, that includes winter driving in the 290's. The last 2 months I am actually AVERAGING 223 wh/mile, with 93% of my miles on highways.
jvonbokel
John VonBokel
Your signature shows you own a P85, which means you spent* $10k to go from 208 miles to 265 (as do most Model S buyers). I think many Roadster owners would gladly pay $20k for an extra 160 miles of range.
*Maybe you upgraded for the performance, not for the range. Would you have bought a P60 if it were available?
For reference, what was the cost of the Roadster battery replacement option? My uneducated/speculative guess is that the new cell chemistry shouldn't add that much to the production cost, so Tesla will likely not charge those that already paid for a new battery, unless there are other hardware changes (PEM, charge port, etc) that go along with it.
djp
Model 3 Performance
It's a lot easier to hit Ideal range on the Roadster than the Model S. I've found I can meet or beat Ideal range while driving 65mph on a freeway (without drafting, but also no heat or A/C). The SF to LA goal should be doable with 400 miles Ideal.
The new pack would let me drive from Toronto to Montreal in the summer as a single shot, saving about 3 hours of charge time. All bets are off in the winter though.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I paid $12K - without going back to look at the contract (meaning these details are subject to correction), I believe the rest of the terms are that for every year after 7 years that I don't replace the battery, I get $1k back. But I have to take the replacement at 10 years or I lose the replacement. So ultimately, it will cost me about $9k if my battery continues to be in the good health it currently is in and I wait the full ten years (putting the latest date I can take a replacement to February 2021).
I've always thought the smartest thing I can do is wait til the last possible moment, even if my car's battery health is no longer good - because it raises the odds that there is better and better battery tech out there - fully accepting I might have to pay something for an upgrade path (but also hoping it wouldn't be worth it for Tesla to keep old tech around). So this latest announcement is obviously good news for that plan.
The battery upgrade option was never offered in the UK and therefore I think this could be a difficult area for Tesla
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
The battery upgrade option was never offered in the UK and therefore I think this could be a difficult area for Tesla
My understanding was they wish they'd never offered it to anyone. I'm not sure how it could be a difficult area, though. Companies offer deals all the time at various points in time. It doesn't mean everyone gets the same thing. For instance, if I'd bought a Model S, I missed out on the 'Roadster Friends and Family' discount because of timing. My loss. But I didn't blame Tesla. I blamed myself for missing that window. Some countries have gotten options that the US hasn't gotten (yet). Just how it works.
It's an imperfect world, isn't it? Makes it so much more interesting.
I specifically mentioned the UK which as part of the EU has strict consumer protection laws that ensure we can purchase goods and services across borders. You cannot offer something to one country in the EU and prevent a customer from buying it in another EU country... I've been told that the battery replacement was offered to some customers in the EU and predict this will be a difficult area for Tesla going forward.
I know it's possible to hit ideal miles but in my experience at closer to 55 mph. That's not something I or many are prepared to do on a motorway.
Those who have done the math estimate that it will be about 80 to 85 kWh to get about 400 mi. We don't know of course.
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Yes but it's all speculation. In theory newer chemistry cells like the Model S uses will have a higher C rate so they could discharge faster with a change in firmware. But we don't really know what the limiting factor is. It might be the PEM or gearbox or motor or something else.
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Welcome to the world of long trips in a Model S where there's no supercharging. In fact a Model S is much worse because even at 80A it adds miles a lot slower than the Roadster does.
Waiting
I did the pre-paid pack replacement too, and I had also figured the way to go was wait for 10 years to maximize lifespan and likelihood that I was able to get the "newest" version of a battery pack that technology might delivery. However, my one worry has always been that if you don't take an upgrade early, they might not keep it available. I had planned to buy the sound-proofing/door flap upgrade for my 2.5, but by the time my next annual service rolled around, they were no longer available. Hopefully the battery pack upgrades will be available for the life of the pre-buy contract!
I did the pre-paid pack replacement too, and I had also figured the way to go was wait for 10 years to maximize lifespan and likelihood that I was able to get the "newest" version of a battery pack that technology might delivery. However, my one worry has always been that if you don't take an upgrade early, they might not keep it available. I had planned to buy the sound-proofing/door flap upgrade for my 2.5, but by the time my next annual service rolled around, they were no longer available. Hopefully the battery pack upgrades will be available for the life of the pre-buy contract!
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
The battery upgrade option was never offered in the UK and therefore I think this could be a difficult area for Tesla
It probably was an issue that UK Roadster owners should have taken up at the time it was being offered in other EU countries. The case is considerably weakened IF Tesla offers a deal to those with the battery replacement option, and only then the UK customers decide to speak up.
yes, one major reason was because of the performance. having had a 6cyl camaro for 7 years , all 7 years I had wished I got the 8cyl. I wasn't going to make that mistake again.
range was not the reason I bought the 'P'. I also got the 'P' for performance and because it included items exclusive to the 'P' at the time.
probably not. and at the time I ordered they were going around saying the range was 300, not 265. I don't know if that makes a difference. I can't really put myself in that place now. I have a bad habit of just optioning out everything I buy in life.
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