New tires killed my range (20-30% decrease)

[lateulade]

I used to own a Honda Civic and bought whatever tire was cheapest at the tire place down the street, so I assumed “all season” meant “all around decent”.

What should I be buying? Range and tire longevity are my primary criteria — I drive 30k a year, and we take road trips only in the fall/summer, so there’ll be no snow or winter driving at all. I do live in South Florida, so I need decent rain performance too. I thought the OEM tires were fine (far better than anything I ever had on my Civic), I only bought the Pilots because they were $850 rather than $1300.

My question: Why the heck would someone living in FL by all season tires! Admittedly, I am quiet inclined to performance tires and am willing to pay the price by putting on winter tires (love my 18" Vredesteins; great performance and quieter than the stock Michelin PS4S--looking forward to blowing by all kinds of SUVs on crappy tires!), but in FL?! You can look at CR to get an idea on rolling resistance; quick look suggest much better performance than stock with better rolling resistance if that important in the form of Yokoham Advan V701 (not Costco option). The Cross Climate has good efficiency, to if you insist on AS but want a much better tire than stock.

 

[NOLADriver]

Dude, you sure they didnt bump your calipers or something brake related when changing them ? This cant be tires. You are having something dragging.

 

[Dolemite]

They are pretty flat-proof. One flat equals about 2000 quick starts.

Yeah but what about quick turns? And stops.

I used to own a Honda Civic and bought whatever tire was cheapest at the tire place down the street, so I assumed “all season” meant “all around decent”.

What should I be buying? Range and tire longevity are my primary criteria — I drive 30k a year, and we take road trips only in the fall/summer, so there’ll be no snow or winter driving at all. I do live in South Florida, so I need decent rain performance too. I thought the OEM tires were fine (far better than anything I ever had on my Civic), I only bought the Pilots because they were $850 rather than $1300.

So far, the A/S 4s appear to be the best high-performance all-season tire that's ever been made. It's the OEM tire on the new Corvette (surprisingly). So if range & tire longevity are your primary criteria, you've made the wrong choice. I'll be buying a set because everyone's saying they're great and I need something to hold me over during the colder months. Otherwise I'm running 265/35 PS4Ss on 19" wheels in warmer weather. I'm willing to make the range sacrifice and I'm OK with poorer longevity if it means I can LOL around corners in this 4,000+ lbs behemoth.

But I'll echo the other sentiments in itt questioning whether the tires are the main culprit here... I'd investigate carefully.

 

[Hank101]

After considerable research, this is the most efficient tire that I have found for my M3 LR RWD 19", the stock tire that came on it.
PROCONTACT RX - SIZE: 235/40R19
Not the cheapest price, or longest life, but best efficiency/range.
I managed to squeak out 46K miles with 3/32" remaining tread depth, normal highway driving.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...6!3!72322456933!!!g!99873031453!&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[lateulade]

I’m not a car guy, so I wouldn’t know what to check, or even what to ask them when I take it back in. Frankly, I’m desperate at this point — we leave for a 1500mi trip in 24 hours, and I have a car that doesn’t look like it’s gonna make it 150 miles on a full charge.

Dude, you sure they didnt bump your calipers or something brake related when changing them ? This cant be tires. You are having something dragging.

 

[NOLADriver]

Drive around for a bit and put ur hand close to the wheels and brakes, if one of them feels ridiculously hotter than the others, you may have a prob. Rental cars are cheap, dont freak that much.

 

[LionXng]

This thread makes me almost think Tesla knew what they were doing when they picked out the tires for the model 3

 

[KenC]

I’m also showing 235Wh/mi at 65. How often is this updated/averaged? I’ve only had my new tires since Wednesday.View attachment 600523

I think you can update the reference calibration as often as you like. Presumably just a fluke that your efficiency matched mine, since mine isn't always 235, I've seen 237 and 232Wh/mile as well.

The SR is more efficient than the LR-AWD, so even with the less efficient tires, you've still gotten what I consider a good efficiency number. However, for an SR, it's likely higher than what your OEMs returned, and as a result, you're feeling the range pinch. Interesting also that you said you had ~10% deg, and that's what ABRP is showing. Your 180mile 100% range is going to be sorely tested if you have a 156mile leg.

You definitely need to change to max efficiency tires. As for your 700+Wh/mi figure, were your brake lights on? Strange, but maybe it's because I never use Instant Range.

 

[mswlogo]

OP it is unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely) you have truly lost 10% of your battery after 50k miles. There are lots of threads on degradation and how the BMS works, check them out. As for your road trip, depends on where in NC you’re going. There’s a SC in Asheville and Hickory, and many L2s spread around. As long as your family can handle the charging stops I’d still take the Tesla. But that’s just me, I can’t stand driving ICE cars now.

FWIW I got the Michelin CC+ and have also seen energy consumption increase a bit. However it “feels” like a better tire so to me a good trade off.

Lost degradation does not equal lost efficiency. The car burns the same kWh (assuming same conditions and tires) regardless of battery degradation. No double dipping.

Lost efficiency does of course affect range and degradation also of course affects range.

But he clearly is talking about efficiency loss. Don’t confuse the two.

 

[mswlogo]

differences in tires for same size is not 20%-30% of consumption. theres something else going on.

Well he is showing 18-22% not 30%

Going from low rolling resistance to high can easily cost 15% in efficiency.

I don’t think anything is wrong. Maybe with better grip he’s taking corners harder than he used to with out knowing it

 

[Sophias_dad]

I used to own a Honda Civic and bought whatever tire was cheapest at the tire place down the street, so I assumed “all season” meant “all around decent”.

What should I be buying? Range and tire longevity are my primary criteria — I drive 30k a year, and we take road trips only in the fall/summer, so there’ll be no snow or winter driving at all. I do live in South Florida, so I need decent rain performance too. I thought the OEM tires were fine (far better than anything I ever had on my Civic), I only bought the Pilots because they were $850 rather than $1300.

Other than the range reduction concern, you are probably coming out ahead. $450 will buy a LOT of electricity.

That said, I'm surprised the OEMs were $1300 a set, unless you were buying them straight from Tesla. Indeed... a check on tirerack.com just now finds a set of four OEM(Tesla acoustic foam and everything) for $1033.96 after rebate.

 

[achou0722]

$275 on discounttires x4 + tax/install. Sounds about right?

 

[Dolemite]

I’m not a car guy, so I wouldn’t know what to check, or even what to ask them when I take it back in. Frankly, I’m desperate at this point — we leave for a 1500mi trip in 24 hours, and I have a car that doesn’t look like it’s gonna make it 150 miles on a full charge.

This sounds like a colossal pain in the ass. I’d rent a car or pick an alternative if possible.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

Lost degradation does not equal lost efficiency. The car burns the same kWh (assuming same conditions and tires) regardless of battery degradation. No double dipping.

Lost efficiency does of course affect range and degradation also of course affects range.

But he clearly is talking about efficiency loss. Don’t confuse the two.

OP specifically mentioned battery degradation in his original post. He said:
“My battery is ~10 degraded, and I was getting 200 real world miles before, but now I’m only getting 160. Not thrilled about the prospect of driving 40mph on the highway, or worse, getting stranded.”

 

[lateulade]

Sorry -- wasn't terribly clear there. I'm only getting 200 miles of range at 100% (vs 220) due to the battery being 10% degraded, and then whatever's going on here is taking another 20% off of that, resulting in only 160 miles of range.

OP specifically mentioned battery degradation in his original post. He said:
“My battery is ~10 degraded, and I was getting 200 real world miles before, but now I’m only getting 160. Not thrilled about the prospect of driving 40mph on the highway, or worse, getting stranded.”

 

[GtiMart]

Did you go for a 100mile+ test ride at highway speed to see what will happen? Short tests are not precise...

 

[lateulade]

I've driven 1200 miles since having the tires replaced last Wednesday -- other than Wednesday (because I spent a few hours getting new tires), I haven't had a day on which I drove less than 100 miles, which is what makes the loss of range so frustrating.

Did you go for a 100mile+ test ride at highway speed to see what will happen? Short tests are not precise...

 

[pdx_m3s]

I'm just curious why you would even consider putting a standard, non-efficiency tire on a car that already has such low range, especially if you need all the miles that you can get?

 

[dhanson865]

I'm just curious why you would even consider putting a standard, non-efficiency tire on a car that already has such low range, especially if you need all the miles that you can get?

If you read the thread the OP has said in more than one post that he doesn't know tires and isn't a car guru. He clearly just didn't know what he wast stepping into.

If your post was sent back in time to help him avoid this mistake I'd give it a thumbs up, now he is there he needs advice on what to do after that mistake.

If we are going back in time I'd ask him why he is considering getting a SR and not a SR+ and then planning to use it for long road trips and driving 100+ miles a day on a regular basis.

Since we can't, I guess I'd ask if he can afford to pay to unlock his SR into a SR+? It isn't cheap, but it'll buy a range increase on the spot.

 

[dhanson865]

I’m not a car guy, so I wouldn’t know what to check, or even what to ask them when I take it back in. Frankly, I’m desperate at this point — we leave for a 1500mi trip in 24 hours, and I have a car that doesn’t look like it’s gonna make it 150 miles on a full charge.

Have someone check the alignment giving you a printout saying the alignment is in spec or out of spec, post a pic of the alignment numbers from the shops printout here and let someone compare vs known good numbers if you don't trust the shop and need a neutral 2nd opinion, if the alignment is the issue get it fixed before the trip or take another vehicle on the trip.

If it isn't the alignment have them check that all 4 wheels spin freely. Let them decide how to check that.

Any decent tire shop should be able to do both of those tasks in a straight forward manner and tell you clearly if there is or isn't a problem there.

If everything checks out then all that is left is tire pressure and the choice of tires.

When you check tire pressure you need to be doing that at the coldest time of the day and set the pressure then when the tires are cold, ignore the tire pressure when hot.

If you are going to be pushing it on a specific leg of your trip check the tire pressure the day before and the morning of that leg and get the tire pressure up to sidewall max for that leg if you need a small boost in range. As in if you normally run at 42 PSI cold (in the morning haven't driven the car in 8+ hours) you need to be thinking 50 PSI cold for that leg of the trip to extend range. As long as you have all 4 tires within 1 or 2 PSI of each other ignore any high PSI reading while driving, only pay attention to PSI that differs greatly or is low when the tires are cold (start of day, middle of night, whatever you have to do to get a reading when it's cold and the car hasn't been used recently).

You can expect any tire shop and even Tesla service centers to under inflate your tires. Any time you have tires replaced, rotated, balanced, pretty much any tire service be sure to check your own tire pressure that night and if needed the next morning (adding air twice if needed).

That means you also need to own a reasonably decent air gauge. You need some way to check tire pressure that is more accurate than any portable compressor gauge you might use and isn't forcing you to rely on the shop to get it right.

You don't need to be that obsessive about PSI every day for the rest of your life. But if you are going to drive a 1500 mile trip you should be paying attention to tire pressure at least once a day during that trip and preferably that is the coldest time of the day every day.