New Utah law and FUSC owners

[NV Ray]

Utah passed and signed HR 301 last May to go into effect 1 Jan 2024. Law imposes a 12.5% charging station fee based on kWh usage.
How would free unlimited supercharging owners be taxed? Or would they?

https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/HB0301.html

 

[Krash]

Utah passed and signed HR 301 last May to go into effect 1 Jan 2024. Law imposes a 12.5% charging station fee based on kWh usage.
How would free unlimited supercharging owners be taxed? Or would they?

https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/HB0301.html

View attachment 980349

Here’s hoping 12.5% of zero is still zero.

 

[NV Ray]

Do any other States currently have this in effect? If so, how is FUSC handled?

 

[Big Earl]

12.5% is a pretty steep fee. Is that on top of the existing 6.75% sales tax in most of the state, and 8.85% in Moab?

 

[NV Ray]

Here's new law Kentucky has passed.

In part it says "If the station operator provides free electricity, they will be responsible for paying the tax on stations installed after June 30, 2022."

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Station Tax

 

[DerbyDave]

There are already state, county, and local fees on the electricity used at the charging stations. This is just more. The taxes are not charged now. I doubt if this would affect free charging in any way.

 

[ucmndd]

I don’t see how this would be different than any other price fluctuation. Free is free.

 

[NV Ray]

These recent new taxes have made me aware that for free supercharging, Tesla not only pays for the electricity but also for applicable taxes. As these taxes continue to mount in the future and knowing folks claim free supercharging is sacrosant, I wonder how long Tesla will consider free supercharging sustainable until some loophole is uncovered.

 

[zoomer0056]

Wow! I understand sales tax, but 12%, !!! It's unclear to me from the bill who gets taxed. But you can say Tesla is buying the electrons and giving them to you. So ... Tesla pays the tax. Arent they already taxing electricity?

 

[ucmndd]

Wow! I understand sales tax, but 12%, !!!

Utah gas tax is $0.345 a gallon, about 10%… this is roughly equivalent

 

[jjrandorin]

I wonder how long Tesla will consider free supercharging sustainable until some loophole is uncovered.

They (Tesla) have not considered it sustainable for a long time (because it isnt). We can see this clearly, because Tesla:

1. Stopped offering fully unlimited supercharging a long time ago.
2. Has made (and likely will continue to make) offers on vehicles to get people to give up / retire / get rid of vehicles with unlimited supercharging.
3. Strips it from any vehicle they can that passes through their possession
4. Makes "mistakes" turning off FUSC on vehicles that people have to jump through hoops to get turned back on even when its fairly clear its the right thing to do.

As far as the thread question, it seems to me that "free is free" so this wont change anyones costs in Utah that has FUSC, but things like this may prompt Tesla to make even more offers to give "something" to vehicles in utah with FUSC to get them to trade them in / off the road etc.

 

[ucmndd]

These recent new taxes have made me aware that for free supercharging, Tesla not only pays for the electricity but also for applicable taxes. As these taxes continue to mount in the future and knowing folks claim free supercharging is sacrosant, I wonder how long Tesla will consider free supercharging sustainable until some loophole is uncovered.

It’s really no skin off their back. They just raise the rates for the people that pay to subsidize the free.

 

[zoomer0056]

Utah gas tax is $0.345 a gallon, about 10%… this is roughly equivalent

Seem like Utah is incentivizing gas use and ICE vehicles. Or maybe price for electric is so low this is what they think the market will bare. I really don't know, the sudden tax just ... a sign of the times.

 

[ucmndd]

Seem like Utah is incentivizing gas use and ICE vehicles.

Consider ICE drivers also pay $0.184 in federal gas tax, which Utah of course benefits from, making the total tax burden more like 15% at $3.50/gal.

Edit: I just looked up current average gas price in Utah, it’s $4.16, making the total tax burden ~12.7% - basically equivalent to this proposed electricity excise tax. Also consider EV drivers only pay this at public charging stations, not at home - making the real tax burden for most EV drivers much lower.

Or maybe price for electric is so low this is what they think the market will bare. I really don't know, the sudden tax just ... a sign of the times.

Roads cost money. I know people don’t like it but I see no reason why EVs shouldn’t pay their share.

 

[Sam1]

Roads cost money. I know people don’t like it but I see no reason why EVs shouldn’t pay their share.

I'm perfectly fine with this, however, the problem I have is that states redirect public road funds to other programs on a regular basis, which I am not ok with, considering either a gas or EV station tax.

 

[DerbyDave]

I think all cars should pay a tax based on miles driven by providing your mileage at registration each year. Everybody pays a fair amount based on usage, ICE or EV.

 

[ThomasD]

What would be a fair State and Federal mileage tax?

 

[ucmndd]

I think all cars should pay a tax based on miles driven by providing your mileage at registration each year. Everybody pays a fair amount based on usage, ICE or EV.

I like this in principle but cringe at the privacy implications of a practical implementation.

 

[jjrandorin]

I like this in principle but cringe at the privacy implications of a practical implementation.

I was trying to think of a way to capture what I was feeling, reading that proposal, and this captures it perfectly, so +1000 to this.

 

[DerbyDave]

I don't understand the privacy thing. My auto insurance requires my mileage each year for my low miles premium. The registration clerk could ask me for my current mileage, taxes paid for the year, and a registration that also lists my mileage at each registration. Currently in my state, the gas tax averages about $150 per year, and some states have added this amount yearly for EVs, but neither seems quite fair (gas tax or flat tax). Every auto should pay road use tax on the miles traveled. The mileage when you sell the car is required, and if you have low balled the miles in past years, you get caught up at sales time.