Clearly something went astray with the v1 p90d. There were all these admonitions about how the p85d upgraded to ludicrous would not have the performance of the p90d, but it did. A lighter version of St Charles' v2 p90dl could do a 10.9 1/4 mile. This is probably the car they expected to have at launch.
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Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!
- Thread starter sorka
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I have the same wheels and when I purchased, they had some recessed areas so my installer didn't dremel the bolts. FYI
concrete evidence is a video of the car at the track along with a time slip running a 10.9 in the 1/4 mile, not a bunch of subjective "estimates" and "unknowns" from a "periodical"...
what we DO have a bunch of concrete evidence showing many people trying, some very experienced, to hit the 10.9 number, but it not happening...
we also have Tesla quietly increasing the power of the P90DL through battery and hardware revisions but stating they all are created equal.... and as a result we have a P90DL in the 10s....
what we DO have a bunch of concrete evidence showing many people trying, some very experienced, to hit the 10.9 number, but it not happening...
we also have Tesla quietly increasing the power of the P90DL through battery and hardware revisions but stating they all are created equal.... and as a result we have a P90DL in the 10s....
How about video of the car doing it with three sworn witnesses having taken a blood oath attesting to the authenticity of the result?
That's just as absurd as what you're suggesting above.
I don't believe that anyone expects Motor Trend to take video of each car they test, and at a track and producing time slips.
If so, well then just when did this become the standard of credibility for that periodical's reported results, and just who aside from you is holding them to that threshold?
A better description of what we have are a few amateurs submitting a few results and from a handful of tracks.
If that was worth a $#** and would go any ways towards proving a damn thing, well then someone would have sued by now.
And the P90D with Ludicrous in the 10s you're referring to, stands a good chance of being the car people come across when searching for the the performance capabilities of ghe P90D.
And when they do, all of this V whatever stuff being bandied about in here, figures to be meaningless because the badge on the rear of that car.......reads the same as ALL P90Ds with Ludicrous. And neither Tesla, nor much of anyone else, aside from a few in here, makes any written and conveniently identified distinction.
One more time, whether some of us like it or not......The car that is referred to as the "Tesla Model S P90D with Ludicrous" is already stated by a respected publication as well as its manufacturer, to be a 10.9 second car and that is not likely to change and no amount of teeth gnashing is going to change that.
May as well get used to it. Tesla apparently isn't backing off of, nor amending their original 10.9 P90D Ludicrous claim, they've stood by that from the whole time the car was in production up until around the intro of the P100D, and it also doesn't appear that Motor Trend is going to issue a retraction.
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We don't know if Motor Trend applied any correction factor to an electric vehicle. They say that they reduce the correction factor for turbos and hybrids. I wouldn't be surprised if they eliminated it for electric vehicles.
Even more accurate than a drag strip they test in both directions and average to correct for any Tailwind that may exist at a drag strip
Most relevantly Motor Trend reported the weight of their test car at 4600 pounds. That is lighter than any other car.
the car didn't have power hatch or air suspension or uhfs or pano roof.
Maybe their driver was a jockey. And maybe they threw out all the crap from the trunk that everybody else keeps there with their chademo adapters etc.
weight has consequences. And multiple factors add up significantly.
If the car truly weighed 4600 pounds I think that can explain a version 1 battery doing 10.9
Another possible explanation is that this was an early release of the version 2 battery which now seem to have been released earlier than we first thought
Even more accurate than a drag strip they test in both directions and average to correct for any Tailwind that may exist at a drag strip
Most relevantly Motor Trend reported the weight of their test car at 4600 pounds. That is lighter than any other car.
the car didn't have power hatch or air suspension or uhfs or pano roof.
Maybe their driver was a jockey. And maybe they threw out all the crap from the trunk that everybody else keeps there with their chademo adapters etc.
weight has consequences. And multiple factors add up significantly.
If the car truly weighed 4600 pounds I think that can explain a version 1 battery doing 10.9
Another possible explanation is that this was an early release of the version 2 battery which now seem to have been released earlier than we first thought
You have to know that the cells in a battery pack not the same. (little better capacity, better voltage) like the computer chips which you can "overclock" with a good cooling system.
If you have time and 100000 cells you can select the best cells and build a "super" battery
Have you ever been an electric RC car race? They pay 30%-40% more for the selected cells.
I think that Tesla was built with a special selected battery and cooling system.
If you have time and 100000 cells you can select the best cells and build a "super" battery
Have you ever been an electric RC car race? They pay 30%-40% more for the selected cells.
I think that Tesla was built with a special selected battery and cooling system.
It's only shady if they intended to deceive. That may have been a pre-production version of what they thought they could actually deliver at the time.
Has anyone ever presented this information to tesla and gotten a response?
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
If you can not get Tesla to discuss the fact that the sky is (mostly) blue, how on earth are you expected to get them to talk about details. To this day, there was nothing wrong with the D announce. All the hp numbers were all good; just go see JB's blog post. And that 10.9 number, hey, its good too; just go see the MT data.
Only P85DEE believes there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll and Tesla is not about dispel that rumor with a mea culpa.
Only P85DEE believes there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll and Tesla is not about dispel that rumor with a mea culpa.
Fiks could go to his local service center and say hey I've taken my car to the strip many times now and I can't get anywhere near 10.9. What gives? They would have to try and fix it or give him an explanation of why not.
Well, I guess they might say it's a software issue and there will be a fix someday. We just don't know when. I think it would be an interesting conversation nonetheless.
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
When it became clear that the P85D with L upgrade was not in line with representations made at the announce (for me at least), I began a conversation with the SE Regional Sales Manager regarding upgrading to the P90DL. My two requirements were that I understood what suspension would come on the new car (I prefer the sport dampers) and that the P90DL would achieve the promoted 10.9 second time. It took a couple of back and forth emails before she understood exactly what I was looking for but, when she did, the line went dead. Crickets. Nothing.
Although not said, my take from the interaction was that Tesla knew it had a problem but was unwilling to acknowledge the problem. Perhaps it was an admission of liability thing related to the issues in Europe. Perhaps it was an extension of the no discount thing where the company can simply not afford to take the hit of making right such an expensive mistake. Perhaps it was just an incompetent employee. I did not know at the time.
Fast forward to just recently to wanting to upgrade my battery to the P100DL unit or the whole car if necessary. This time I pushed the need for an answer further up the food chain and was told there would be no consideration for the situation I described. I loved those last words. At least I have a definitive answer and I suspect your answer will be something similar. If it is not, then who ever receives that different answer will likely be under NDA to prevent the rest of us from knowing.
Although not said, my take from the interaction was that Tesla knew it had a problem but was unwilling to acknowledge the problem. Perhaps it was an admission of liability thing related to the issues in Europe. Perhaps it was an extension of the no discount thing where the company can simply not afford to take the hit of making right such an expensive mistake. Perhaps it was just an incompetent employee. I did not know at the time.
Fast forward to just recently to wanting to upgrade my battery to the P100DL unit or the whole car if necessary. This time I pushed the need for an answer further up the food chain and was told there would be no consideration for the situation I described. I loved those last words. At least I have a definitive answer and I suspect your answer will be something similar. If it is not, then who ever receives that different answer will likely be under NDA to prevent the rest of us from knowing.
This is different. Fiks has the car, and it's not performing as it should. They can't just tell him to go pound sand. I agree this may be a fix on failure situation. This wont be an issue for most people, but if someone makes enough noise they'll fix it. They probably would have to sign one of the infamous good will non-disclosures. But if fiks takes his car in and suddenly starts posting 10.9s we'll have our answer.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
St Charles
Tesla, not TSLA!
No no. This is almost certainly a bad idea. Take a look at the top of page 4 on the Limited Warranty paperwork. Right there under WARRANTY LIMITATIONS:
- Driving the vehicle off-road, over uneven, rough, damaged or hazardous surfaces, including but not limited to, curbs, potholes, unfinished roads, debris, or other obstacles, or in competition, racing or autocross or for any other purposes for which the vehicle is not designed;
ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, talk to the dealership or manufacturer about racing your car. It's the FASTEST way to have warranty problems. Guaranteed!
They can't complain about you testing your vehicle to see if it performs to the specs they promise in their sales literature. You're not competing or racing if you vbox your car. A quarter mile run wouldn't be any different then accelerating to speed on the autobahn.
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It's only absurd because you know it will never happen, Motor Trend won't even respond any longer to those who inquired. I was contacted by Guinness book of world records about my runs at the drag strip for the worlds quickest production electric car, a lot of proof is needed, no corrections, no estimates, no making it fair for bad weather, you either run it or not.
define amateurs as you wish, but I would be willing to say that some of them have more experience than the motor trend test drivers in 1/4 mile performance, and that they have put more time and effort into making a 10.9 run than they did.
The P90D Ludicrous car that WILL and IS coming up when people search for it running 10's is the TRC car, a car making more HP than the original P90DL, this comes from increasing the power of the P90DL through battery and hardware revisions.
Tesla has backed off, there is no 10.9 mention anymore.
define amateurs as you wish, but I would be willing to say that some of them have more experience than the motor trend test drivers in 1/4 mile performance, and that they have put more time and effort into making a 10.9 run than they did.
The P90D Ludicrous car that WILL and IS coming up when people search for it running 10's is the TRC car, a car making more HP than the original P90DL, this comes from increasing the power of the P90DL through battery and hardware revisions.
Tesla has backed off, there is no 10.9 mention anymore.
Sorry Tippy I strongly disagree. Even if their intent was was not to deceive. At some point, a month, 2 months, 6 months, etc., they knew for whatever reason it didn't match the published specs and didn't tell anyone. That's when it became shady.
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