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Newer P90DL makes 662 hp at the battery!!!

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Happy to add other SoC fields. 70, 80? Also, worth dropping Max Batt OFF to keep it cleaner?

Why not leave the SOC open for input instead of fixed increments? Definitely keep the Max Batt OFF since that is where we need more data. Also need data for both Max Batt Pwr OFF and ON below 80% SOC. Again, I'll include any data posted in this and other TMC threads.

TeslaPwr24.jpg
 
From a suspension loading standpoint maybe. On rear wheel drive only car, more weight up top and less down low well actually help with loading and traction.

The real killer is adding weight to wheels which is basically a double penalty as you not only have to accelerate the mass linearly but angularly as well.

I don't think that I've ever known of anyone, nor seen any auto performance advocates or enthusiasts look at increased roof weight as a good thing.

But I freely admit that I haven't seen everything. And I'm not about to comment on what you have and haven't seen.

However if you have seen any performance professional, advocate increasing roof weight for performance benefit, then can you send me a private message pointing to the performance advantages of increased roof weight.

I realize that the above may sound sarcastic, as there are limitations to the printed word vs the spoken word. But I assure you, assure you, assure you, that it is not sarcasm.

I am profoundly sincere here, and am here to learn too. Please show me where any professional or serious amateur drag enthusiast advocates adding roof weight as a performance benefit.

To your second paragraph I agree. Increased unsprung weight, increased rotating mass can be a significant penalty and is to be avoided as well for best performance results.

So yeah adding unsprung weight or weight overhead is a detriment.
 
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....P85DEE, tesla would not let us down would they?

By "let us down", you mean as in "disappoint" us?

Well I look at "disappointment" as more of an emotion than anything else.

And while I'm just as guilty of it as anyone else has been, well, not to sound like Spock here, but I think we need to replace the emotion with logic.

And logic tells me that one cannot compare stellar results reported in very minimally optioned cars to results obtained in generously optioned cars and when they don't "match", say "foul".

Until a car optioned like the ones tested, and weighing in at the respective test weights as those cars, is itself tested and those results tabulated, it's impossible to cry "foul" at this point.
 
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By "let us down", you mean as in "disappoint" us?

Well I look at "disappointment" as more of an emotion than anything else.

And while I'm just as guilty of it as anyone else has been, well, not to sound like Spock here, but I think we need to replace the emotion with logic.

And logic tells me that one cannot compare stellar results reported in very minimally optioned cars to results obtained in generously optioned cars and when they don't "match", say "foul".

Until a car optioned like the ones tested, and weighing in at the respective test weights as those cars is itself tested and those results tabulated, it's impossible to cry "foul" at this point.
When you say that they were optioned differently, what do you mean besides a pano roof?
 
Why not leave the SOC open for input instead of fixed increments? Definitely keep the Max Batt OFF since that is where we need more data. Also need data for both Max Batt Pwr OFF and ON below 80% SOC. Again, I'll include any data posted in this and other TMC threads.

this is an incredibly useful graph. thanks for curating it. the form isn't flexible enough to allow multiple values, so I have to enumerate them if anyone wants to provide > 1 data point. it's really just a starting point for capturing data. I am manually incorporating data much of the time. the thing I've been looking for is slightly better granularity on performance vs battery version vs software version. I think it's interesting to read the data in time order of production. it may help capture interesting changes on the line. but I don't want to create a largely duplicative effort. happy to share spreadsheet editing with you if you want to help fill it out. or I can do the same with yours, if you wish.
 
When you say that they were optioned differently, what do you mean besides a pano roof?

Nearest that can be told from the "price as tested", it appears that the MT car from which the results came, which may or may not have been the one pictured, had few other options aside from the 90kwh battery and Ludicrous.

2015 Tesla Model S P90D w/Ludicrous Upgrade First Test

Ludicrous and the 90kwh battery would have come to $13,000.00 over the base price as per the text in the article.

That leaves another 2 grand. Which would be about enough for red or blue paint.
 
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On MT, I kind of recall they mentioned a "high desert" test site -- and also, some of the pictures with the article looked like high desert. While I assume they didn't apply the altitude correction to improve the time for ICE cars tested at high altitude, I bet they didn't apply a correction the opposite way to add time, since Teslas produce faster times at high altitude where drag is lower. I always thought that explained a lot of the 10.9.
 
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Last week I did two 0-160 km/h runs with my P85DL. First one with 100 % SOC and second with approximately 95 %. During both runs the Power Tools app showed 463 kW for maximum power. I recorded these runs with Vbox Sport (external antenna) and a CAN-bus recorder. Now I have had these recorded CAN data files parsed. During the first run maximum power from the battery was 468,72 kW (310 V and 1512 A) and during the second 468,44 kW (309 V and 1516 A). Both runs were with max battery power ready. I am happy to provide the data if anyone is interested.
 
Last week I did two 0-160 km/h runs with my P85DL. First one with 100 % SOC and second with approximately 95 %. During both runs the Power Tools app showed 463 kW for maximum power. I recorded these runs with Vbox Sport (external antenna) and a CAN-bus recorder. Now I have had these recorded CAN data files parsed. During the first run maximum power from the battery was 468,72 kW (310 V and 1512 A) and during the second 468,44 kW (309 V and 1516 A). Both runs were with max battery power ready. I am happy to provide the data if anyone is interested.

Very informative.

Highest I've seen for a P85DL.

Which firmware version?
 
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Last week I did two 0-160 km/h runs with my P85DL. First one with 100 % SOC and second with approximately 95 %. During both runs the Power Tools app showed 463 kW for maximum power.

Those numbers certainly push above the previous max curve for a P85DL. It appears similar to the small P90DL increase I saw with Max Batt Pwr ON after a recent software update. This is where GridSpace's spreadsheet collection is useful since data collected there includes software version, battery # and car production. My graphing is more focus on providing maximum performance vs SOC% curves for different models of cars and typical operation (Battery Pwr On and OFF).

Quick questions:
1) What software version?
2) Were you able to reach those power levels before recent software upgrade?
3) Any data with Max Batt Pwr OFF?

Thanks
 
keep the Max Batt OFF since that is where we need more data.

I'm not sure but isn't Max Batt OFF just mean that the batt temp is whatever it otherwise is which is highly variable depending on ambient temperature and recent possible (super)charging? For instance if someone was driving a cold car that had to recent charging (which warms the battery) and the ambient air temp is low, then the battery temp will be very low. On the other hand someone coming off a supercharge and/or in a hot climate, will have a battery that could be at or very close to the temp Max Batt ON temp anyway.

So Max Batt OFF data, might not actually give very useful info if the underlying battery temp is actually very variable and that is what really causes the power changes. Or perhaps specify "Max Batt OFF and not recently charging and air temp ~75 F."
 
I don't think that I've ever known of anyone, nor seen any auto performance advocates or enthusiasts look at increased roof weight as a good thing.

But I freely admit that I haven't seen everything. And I'm not about to comment on what you have and haven't seen.

However if you have seen any performance professional, advocate increasing roof weight for performance benefit, then can you send me a private message pointing to the performance advantages of increased roof weight.

I realize that the above may sound sarcastic, as there are limitations to the printed word vs the spoken word. But I assure you, assure you, assure you, that it is not sarcasm.

I am profoundly sincere here, and am here to learn too. Please show me where any professional or serious amateur drag enthusiast advocates adding roof weight as a performance benefit.

To your second paragraph I agree. Increased unsprung weight, increased rotating mass can be a significant penalty and is to be avoided as well for best performance results.

So yeah adding unsprung weight or weight overhead is a detriment.

Note, I'm not talking about increasing weight at all. I'm talking about distribution. From a physics standpoint, the higher up the center of gravity is, the more loading will occur on the rear as accelerate a mass from the bottom.

This is bad for front wheel drive vehicles as it will decrease their traction. It's good for rear wheel cars as it will increase their traction.

For AWD vehicles, I think it might depend on the specific platform.

I don't believe you'll find an expert that claims raising the center of gravity is bad for straight line acceleration of rear wheel drive only cars.

Everyone will agree that adding wheel mass is FAR worse than adding or moving mass to anywhere else.
 
I'm not sure but isn't Max Batt OFF just mean that the batt temp is whatever it otherwise is which is highly variable depending on ambient temperature and recent possible (super)charging? For instance if someone was driving a cold car that had to recent charging (which warms the battery) and the ambient air temp is low, then the battery temp will be very low. On the other hand someone coming off a supercharge and/or in a hot climate, will have a battery that could be at or very close to the temp Max Batt ON temp anyway.

So Max Batt OFF data, might not actually give very useful info if the underlying battery temp is actually very variable and that is what really causes the power changes. Or perhaps specify "Max Batt OFF and not recently charging and air temp ~75 F."

Previously Max Batt Power ON was virtually the same as running the car in Max Batt Power OFF for 5 or 10 mins. During winter, it could take 30 mins or more. In my previous graphs I showed how that effect converged to the maximum power curve.

With recent software changes and the new battery pack, there appears to be a step function increase in power for Max Batt Power ON which is not obtainable by a little driving with Max Batt Power OFF. This is why I added the dashed curve to show Max Batt Power OFF performance.

Note what Tesla says in the owner's manual:

Max Battery Power is designed to achieve maximum performance for short term acceleration and is not intended for daily driving. The tradeoff for the additional power boost is extra energy consumption and earlier power fade on long aggressive drives.

Given that, most of us drive with Max Battery Power OFF so a curve show maximum expected performance for that condition (after a bit of normal driving) is useful.
 
Point us to the results of the owner driven Ludicrous and no other options car.

They're not there.

So nobody knows how much, if any, additional power above 456KW is "needed" to turn a 10.9 in such a car.

Especially when 11.1 has been run in one with more options than that.

Logic.

I dont have those results. And, nobody else is likely to have them because that is a very unlikely configuration. Furthermore, from 11.1 to 10.9 is a long way (as small as it seems) in that bracket power needed to gain the extra 2 tenths is much more significant than a 12 second pass. There is no 120kg to save and there is no 30-50kw to gain without hardware? And software ...

Is tesla the company that advertises stats that can only be achieved by a spec of car nobody would order and a child driver with a tail wind on a hail mary pass?

As far as i could recall, in specifying my car, i selected the ludicrous option last which stated for $ you get 2.8/10.9. Should there have been a * next to it saying you need a minor miracle for that to actually happen (as above) or perhaps should it warn that the other options you have selected mean this is now impossible?
 
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I dont have those results. And, nobody else is likely to have them because that is a very unlikely configuration. Furthermore, from 11.1 to 10.9 is a long way (as small as it seems) in that bracket power needed to gain the extra 2 tenths is much more significant than a 12 second pass. There is no 120kg to save and there is no 30-50kw to gain without hardware? And software ...

Is tesla the company that advertises stats that can only be achieved by a spec of car nobody would order and a child driver with a tail wind on a hail mary pass?

As far as i could recall, in specifying my car, i selected the ludicrous option last which stated for $ you get 2.8/10.9. Should there have been a * next to it saying you need a minor miracle for that to actually happen (as above) or perhaps should it warn that the other options you have selected mean this is now impossible?

Doesn't matter how "unlikely" a configuration either of us believes it to be.

Tesla is not obligated to make a chart of every possible configuration of P90D with Ludicrous and list it's performance specs.

Furthermore we aren't talking about a configuration that "nobody" orders.

We're talking about a configuration that "some" people won't order.

I know how far it is from 11.1 to 10.9.

And I also know that if C&D averaged 11.1 over two runs, then they either had to have run a pair of 11.1s, or they made one run which was better than 11.1 and another worse than 11.1.

If either of their runs was worse than 11.1, well then an 11.0 or better would have been needed to create an avg of 11.1.

Again, though some may dislike it, that point cannot be disputed. No way, no how. Which is probably why they dislike it.

So what do we have left?

Well, as I see it in our exchange here, your argument seems to center around seeing no submitted example, of the examples submitted, of a heavier optioned P90DL, having matched the results of a minimally optioned P90DL.

The Motor Trend test car had a curb weight of 4,689 lbs. The C&D test vehicle a curb wt of 4,842lbs.

Neither you nor I know the curb weights of all of the cars which have submitted results.

Indeed, I doubt that either of us knows, or could recite the curb weights of any of the cars with submitted results, all of which had pano roofs.

More importantly, we know not the curb weight of St Charles' car which produced the 11.1. A time which we know to have been produced at the "old" power level, and with a pano roof and air ride, and by his own account a large sized driver.

His result literally and outright kills the "ringer" argument. Unless Tesla sold him a "ringer" too.

And yet in the face of all of this, no knowledge of the weights of the cars which have not run the spec vs the curb weights of the cars tested, plus a car belonging to a private owner amongst us, who either duplicated both runs of one magazine or bested one run of that same magazine, you conclude that the 10.9 figure can't be accurate???

Is that it in a nutshell?

If it is, well then I don't see the logic in that.
 
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511 was highest? I guess I get to savor a brief moment of record holding then? I just recorded 512. I'm on my phone so I'll update spreadsheet when i get home with all the details. But here's a few screenshots. .
View attachment 183180 View attachment 183181 View attachment 183182

I supercharged to 100% and did Max Battery Ready. Floored it on open stretch. Did 10-12 runs drawing down to 85% battery or so. Had several readings over 500. Couldn't beat 512 again. I do have a ton of logs if anyone wants to review.
You have the most powerful Tesla in the world right now at 512kw. Next step, bring it to a drag strip, then show us the time slip :)
 
My Model X 90D (Delivered 6/22/16, VIN 006624) has the newest battery part number I have seen...
1088790-00-A

Of note, full charge, ideal range shows 311 miles in the Model X which is impressive. I'm not getting too excited since it is the first full charge on the day of delivery.

Just another data point for everyone. Now my P85D is getting it's ludicrous upgrade tomorrow. Wonder if I can pay the guy an extra $50 and get him to switch my Model X 90 (latest greatest) battery into my P85D without my wife finding out!
I thought no one uses ideal range coz it is way too optimistic.
 
Thanks Mike. Here's my data from last night:

P90DL
Vin: 1473xx
Production start: -6/23/16
Delivered: 6/25/16
SW v: 2.24.30
Battery 1088792-00-A

Best run:
@ 100% SoC, just off of supercharger, maxBattery on/ "Ready":
• 512 kw / 686.3hp @ 53mph

Couple others:
@ 98% SoC, maxBattery on/ "Ready":
• 511 kw / 685hp @ 78 mph

@ 85% SoC, maxBattery on / "Ready":
• 501 kw / 671.6 hp @ 52 mph

PowerTools log files (.CSV) available for any data wonks who want to play.

Screenshots:
View attachment 183262 View attachment 183263 View attachment 183264 View attachment 183265
Excellent data!! Your car at 85% SOC is more powerful than some older P90DL at 95%.
 
this is an incredibly useful graph. thanks for curating it. the form isn't flexible enough to allow multiple values, so I have to enumerate them if anyone wants to provide > 1 data point. it's really just a starting point for capturing data. I am manually incorporating data much of the time. the thing I've been looking for is slightly better granularity on performance vs battery version vs software version. I think it's interesting to read the data in time order of production. it may help capture interesting changes on the line. but I don't want to create a largely duplicative effort. happy to share spreadsheet editing with you if you want to help fill it out. or I can do the same with yours, if you wish.
GridSpace, can you add your spread sheet link (Tesla Model S P85/90D(L) Comparisons (Responses)) to the bottom of your signature as well? It is easier for everyone instead of jumping back to various page to find the link, thanks!
 
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