NHTSA asks Tesla to recall 158,000 [now 135,000] vehicles for eMMC failure. Voluntary Recall issued

[Cleo-n-Company]

Just got my S back from the SC and they are saying it is a known software defect and it will be fixed in a future update. I tried my best to get the eMMC replaced under the service bulletin guidelines but they said it isn’t showing a “failure” on the diagnostics. Really hope corporate puts together a formal response to all mess.

This stuff just kills me.

In laymen's terms Tesla is saying:

Your car is at times hampered with a majority of its controls and functionality disabled.

We will fix this sometime.

We won't tell you when.

We won't tell you how we are going to address it.

Just keep driving your car.

We'l let you know when we feel like it.

 

[BigNick]

It will take death to resolve this. How quickly did the nags come when people were killed from not paying attention on Autopilot?

Can't see thru the windshield? No big deal, just wipe it off with a squeegee while you let the car steer itself, right? But make sure you're paying attention to the road, not just the squeegee.

 

[brkaus]

This stuff just kills me.

In laymen's terms Tesla is saying:

Your car is at times hampered with a majority of its controls and functionality disabled.

We will fix this sometime.

We won't tell you when.

We won't tell you how we are going to address it.

Just keep driving your car.

We'l let you know when we feel like it.

replacing the daughter card doesn’t guarantee a fix either. Feels better, but may not fix.

 

[Chaserr]

It used to be this way up until about 2 years ago. Too bad. I feel sorry for the people too.

Yes - someone flipped the "nasty" switch at Tesla about 2 years ago. The SC was really quite pleasant prior.

2 years ago Tesla lost Jon McNeill, their president of sales and service. He wasn't replaced instead Elon took over his job. The last 2 years are Elon's direct responsibility. HHe wanted bad service and made it happen.

This is going to change pretty soon. Tesla will flop in the commercial semi and pickup truck markets if businesses get the same treatment we do. Tesla is going to bankrupt a lot of businesses with it's current service and that's no secret so it will get in the way of sales

 

[kevyli]

replacing the daughter card doesn’t guarantee a fix either. Feels better, but may not fix.

IMO it is still better perform a best effort fix rather than leave the customer out there with no ETA for a “fix”. They had me bring in the car to run diagnostics and then send me right back the following day with a future promise.

 

[FlatSix911]

I don't want to throw cold water, but just want to warn people expecting the recall to just be straight replacements with no questions asked: note that Tesla may end up doing the same thing for the recall (eMMC test to determine health and then only replace if deemed unhealthy and the source of the issue). They still have time to respond to NHTSA and they have not officially said what they would be doing yet.

If you look at the Tanaka recall, given there is an expectation that the service/parts chain would not be able to handle immediate recall of all airbags at once (even only the ones with owners that responded), there was a priority system of the most impacted/at risk ones first. A similar schedule may happen here that will drag things out. NHTSA Releases End-of-Year Update on Takata Air Bag Recalls

The scale of the Tesla recall effort would be orders of magnitude different from Takaka...
"Roughly 37 million vehicles equipped with 50 million defective Takata airbags are under recall"

 

[FlatSix911]

2 years ago Tesla lost Jon McNeill, their president of sales and service. He wasn't replaced instead Elon took over his job. The last 2 years are Elon's direct responsibility. HHe wanted bad service and made it happen.

This is going to change pretty soon. Tesla will flop in the commercial semi and pickup truck markets if businesses get the same treatment we do. Tesla is going to bankrupt a lot of businesses with it's current service and that's no secret so it will get in the way of sales

Jon was a huge loss for Tesla and customer service has declined dramatically since his departure.
Elon's new solution is to better manage his Twitter and other Social Media accounts... sad, but true.
Tesla is hiring people to address complaints to Elon Musk on Twitter (electrek.co)

"Historically, Tesla has made it hard to contact customer service as it focused on communications going through its mobile app. The automaker has made efforts to improve with new features, like an issue escalation feature on its website, but people had mixed results with it.

Last year, Tesla continued with its unorthodox communication approach by dissolving its PR department.
Right now, it’s crazy to say, but one of the best ways to put something on Tesla’s radar is to tweet at Elon Musk on Twitter."

 

[Chaserr]

That article is years behind - the "escalate" option was removed from my Tesla web account almost immediately after Elon took over Jon's customer support job.

 

[gearchruncher]

I'm considering a small claims case for MCU1. My car was advertised with a variety of features, which don't really work due to changes by Tesla. The whole center screen locks up, reboots, and isn't very functional. Voice commands don't work at all. My car is still under warranty, and Tesla is not able to fix it, yet will sell me a device which does fix it (MCU2) for $2500, so they actually do know of a fix, and have conveniently defined a value for me.

Sounds like a pretty simple case of $2500 worth of damages.

You know, if a bunch of us do this, Tesla might actually fix it.

In some states, you could Lemon law a car for this too.

 

[viper2ko]

I'm considering a small claims case for MCU1. My car was advertised with a variety of features, which don't really work due to changes by Tesla. The whole center screen locks up, reboots, and isn't very functional. Voice commands don't work at all. My car is still under warranty, and Tesla is not able to fix it, yet will sell me a device which does fix it (MCU2) for $2500, so they actually do know of a fix.

Sounds like a pretty simple case of $2500 worth of damages.

You know, if a bunch of us do this, Tesla might actually fix it.

In some states, you could Lemon law a car for this too.

All it takes is one. One person decided to report to NHTSA and then another and another.

 

[Greg63]

I'm not saying that Tesla shouldn't be forced to fix a known problem. However, if you want a high tech vehicle that's upgradable through software updates then this is what you should expect. If your computer is getting bogged down by more power hungry software what do you do? Upgrade your computer. Personally I don't think $2500 is a lot of money to upgrade an $80k vehicle. It could be and probably should be less but computers can't keep up with software forever. It's great that these vehicles are upgradable. I'm going to upgrade because I want the better experience and yes things like netflix are nice to have for supercharger stops or waiting on the wife while she's in the store. Now that will cut down on arguments because I won't realize how long she's making me wait! Plus I'm going to have to upgrade at some point so I might as well do it sooner rather than later. It's cheaper to upgrade the MCU instead of the vehicle.

That said, those that don't want to stay current shouldn't be required to upgrade to software that can't run well on the system that's in their vehicle.

 

[brkaus]

That said, those that don't want to stay current shouldn't be required to upgrade to software that can't run well on the system that's in their vehicle.

It's probably for the best, but this might stop the feature adds going forward for older cars.

 

[gearchruncher]

I'm not saying that Tesla shouldn't be forced to fix a known problem. However, if you want a high tech vehicle that's upgradable through software updates then this is what you should expect. If your computer is getting bogged down by more power hungry software what do you do? Upgrade your computer. Personally I don't think $2500 is a lot of money to upgrade an $80k vehicle.

The center screen in a Tesla is your heater control, defrost control, backup camera, turn signal sounds, and is needed to make a lot of autopilot features work. These are safety features. They should not degrade with time.

The ABS unit and the engine computer in my 2004 car are computers. Should I expect these to slow down and need to be replaced every 3 years? Computers don't slow down- only new software changes their performance. Not everyone wants that new software.

However, Tesla does not provide software that has no new features since you bought the car, but provides other required fixes, and they do not allow you to go backwards in software version. They offer owners no options to bring their vehicles back to original performance, even though all that would take is putting original software back on them. If they had those options, then they would have an out. But they don't, so this is on them.

Do you really think the 1 million Model 3 drivers will be happy when their whole center screens will be useless in 3 years and you say "What did you expect, it's a computer!?" Will you be happy when your MCU2 upgrade is bogged down again in 2 years?

 

[plumazul]

I'm not saying that Tesla shouldn't be forced to fix a known problem. However, if you want a high tech vehicle that's upgradable through software updates then this is what you should expect. If your computer is getting bogged down by more power hungry software what do you do? Upgrade your computer. Personally I don't think $2500 is a lot of money to upgrade an $80k vehicle. It could be and probably should be less but computers can't keep up with software forever. It's great that these vehicles are upgradable. I'm going to upgrade because I want the better experience and yes things like netflix are nice to have for supercharger stops or waiting on the wife while she's in the store. Now that will cut down on arguments because I won't realize how long she's making me wait! Plus I'm going to have to upgrade at some point so I might as well do it sooner rather than later. It's cheaper to upgrade the MCU instead of the vehicle.

That said, those that don't want to stay current shouldn't be required to upgrade to software that can't run well on the system that's in their vehicle.

The hardware that Tesla installed in my new Model S, in 2017, was junk when it was installed. This was a decision Tesla made. (even the MCU2 "upgrade" is certainly not state-of-the-art). Tesla must be held accountable for the decisions they make.

BTW, my iPhone 6S Plus (cir. 2015) still works GREAT.

 

[Chaserr]

They already stopped adding features to older cars. New features aren't there because if the firmware gets bigger MCU1 fails even faster. The other reason of course is planned obsolescence but firmware bloat is the reason this recall is happening. if firmwares stayed under 500mb the emmc chips would last a decade.

 

[gearchruncher]

firmware bloat is the reason this recall is happening. if firmwares stayed under 500mb the emmc chips would last a decade.

First, a decade is not enough. NHTSA said 15 years is the minimum for automotive products.
Second, software bloat is not the issue. It's the amount of datalogging Tesla did. Flash wears out due to writes. A few 1GB updates doesn't wear it out- constant background writing which adds up to terrabytes does.

 

[gearchruncher]

Reading this thread, it's become clear that MCU1 isn't really stable for many people, even if it doesn't have the eMMC wear out issue that NHTSA is currently considering a recall for. But it is clear that NHTSA considers a non-operational MCU a safety issue.

I'm starting to think that the eMMC is actually a bit of a red herring Tesla put in front of NHTSA and Tesla thought they would be able to just handle with warranty and get NHTSA off their backs. NHTSA cares if the MCU isn't working, not only if it isn't working due to flash wear out.

I suggest anyone that is having issues with MCU1, that has been told by Tesla that it isn't the flash issue, to report this to NHTSA.:
File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

Tesla tried to argue software could fix the flash issue. If the software is also the issue with MCU1 not working properly, they can fix the software, or they could decide to upgrade everyone to MCU2. But let's make sure that NHTSA knows that lots of drivers are having issues with using MCU1 for the backup camera, blinker noises, heater/defrost controls, headlight controls and more even when Tesla claims that hardware is operating as expected. We don't even need to argue about MCU1's safety criticality- NHTSA has already agreed to that in the eMMC recall.

Example report:
I am the owner of a 201X Tesla Model. The "center screen" in this car is central to the use of many safety functions of the car, such as the reverse camera, headlight controls, defroster controls, and turn signal chimes. The screen in my car has become highly unreliable, often locking up, rebooting, or failing to respond, causing the aforementioned functions to be unavailable. It is my observation that these functions worked well in the past when the vehicle was originally delivered, but have degraded over time as Tesla has pushed software updates to my car.

I have discussed this issue with Tesla and am aware of the proposed NHTSA recal of the center screens due to a eMMC flash wear out issue. Tesla has assured me that this is not the issue with my car, and has requested that I wait for future software updates to resolve these issues. However, it is my observation that software updates have continuously made this situation worse, and Tesla has offered no specific date on which this will be resolved. This is unacceptable for safety functions of a vehicle. Tesla has also mentioned that I can upgrade to "MCU2" at a cost of $3000, and that this system works much better. Owners of 3 year old vehicles still under warranty should not be required to pay to maintain the safety of their vehicle.

I request that you investigate the scale of Tesla "MCU1" center screen issues beyond the eMMC flash issue and work with Tesla to make sure this is resolved quickly for the 150,000 owners of these vehicles.

 

[ChadS]

Adding to what gearcruncher says...I have a 2017 X with MCU1 and HW3, and we have been having a LOT of freezes and reboots on both the dash display and the infotainment screen. I initially thought it might be the emmc issue, because the symptoms seem so similar. I no longer think so.

Over a few service appointments Tesla has cleaned up a bunch of files, reflashed part of my firmware, released a new firmware version, suggested I try not using my USB stick, and mentioned a known navigation bug (they said there would be a fix for this, but they don't know when) which implies that not using navigation will reduce problems. As they promised, each of these has indeed resulted in a lower number of freezes/reboots...in fact yesterday we went on a several-hour drive, and had no problems at all. So clearly, a lot of these problems are caused by factors other than bad emmc chips.

I fear the above paragraph may cause confusion about my point, so let me be clear that I am not suggesting that driving without sentry, teslacam and navigation is a solution. My trouble-free drive was because I inconvenienced myself to avoid the problem, rather than because Tesla fixed the problem. Their computer should not crash based on what's plugged in to the USB port (the same high-end USB card works fine on my Model 3, but even if it's really bad, the Tesla computer should give an error rather than crashing), or when navigation is in use. I agree this is potentially a safety issue (though I am more worried about future emmc issues!), and most likely caused by Tesla - specifically, Musk - focusing all development work on new vehicles without allocating sufficient resources to the older ones. Tesla should definitely be fixing these issues rather than waiting for everyone to get exasperated and pay for the MCU2 upgrade. I'm really unhappy with how the driving experience of our X has degraded.

My point in posting is to point out that not every crash and reboot is caused by a bad emmc chip, and sometimes when Tesla techs suggest you try something other than replacing the chip, they really are trying to help and not just lying to you to make you go away. It's too bad the local service techs can't fix firmware bugs and we have to wait on Musk to make it a priority. Which, who knows, he may never do on his own given the feedback he's getting from the market about his current strategy. That's where NHTSA reports might help.

 

[Cleo-n-Company]

The center screen in a Tesla is your heater control, defrost control, backup camera, turn signal sounds, and is needed to make a lot of autopilot features work. These are safety features. They should not degrade with time.

The ABS unit and the engine computer in my 2004 car are computers. Should I expect these to slow down and need to be replaced every 3 years? Computers don't slow down- only new software changes their performance. Not everyone wants that new software.

However, Tesla does not provide software that has no new features since you bought the car, but provides other required fixes, and they do not allow you to go backwards in software version. They offer owners no options to bring their vehicles back to original performance, even though all that would take is putting original software back on them. If they had those options, then they would have an out. But they don't, so this is on them.

Do you really think the 1 million Model 3 drivers will be happy when their whole center screens will be useless in 3 years and you say "What did you expect, it's a computer!?" Will you be happy when your MCU2 upgrade is bogged down again in 2 years?

Thank you gearcruncher for being another pragmatist.

Folks need to separate the tendency on these forums to be Tesla backers/ fanboys regardless of the conversation... and realize if there are specific issues related to safety... owners need to step up for each other. I'm tired of paying Tesla for things I should not have to, and for being held hostage in a certain sense.

 

[aerodyne]

Here is the latest from a SA at a major SvC in LA area this AM by phone....

They are only replacing daughter boards per the SB if the screen is black and cannot otherwise be revived. This is due to parts shortage.

If this happens, about a week and a half, to get the daughterboard and replace it.

MCU2 is about the same time. Seems like no shortage of MCU2's.