Nissan launches hands-off ProPilot 2.0 On-Ramp to Off-Ramp (Rivals Navigate on Autopilot)

[Snuffysasa]

Thanks for the article. It looks like they dropped the lidar solution of Mobileye, which uses nearby objects to localize the car (with 10cm accuracy) for a high precision GPS with 5cm accuracy. This sounds more like a temporary solution.

Close... it uses the camera to detect nearby landmarks to localize the car within 10cm... And yea they may have dropped that.. I don't know.

And I agree the high accuracy GPS may be temporary.

 

[acoste]

Close... it uses the camera to detect nearby landmarks to localize the car within 10cm... And yea they may have dropped that.. I don't know.

Hmmm. I somehow remembered wrong that MobilEye uses lidar for the REM mapping,, but when listened again, the only thing mentioned is that lidar is there for redundancy only and EyeQ4 cameras are already harvesting the data. Thanks for the correction. Specifically mentions BMW production cars are harvesting data with EyeQ4 chips. And there are no BMWs on the road with lidar.

He talks about mapping Japan with Nissan at 41:20

 

[Snuffysasa]

Hmmm. I somehow remembered wrong that MobilEye uses lidar for the REM mapping,, but when listened again, the only thing mentioned is that lidar is there for redundancy only and EyeQ4 cameras are already harvesting the data. Thanks for the correction. Specifically mentions BMW production cars are harvesting data with EyeQ4 chips. And there are no BMWs on the road with lidar.

He talks about mapping Japan with Nissan at 41:20

Nope they do not use LiDAR for REM mapping nor REM localization.

They do use LiDAR for real time obstacle detection redundancy and free space detection , road boundaries, etc


And yea the plan was for Nissan vehicles to be harvesting with EyeQ4 as well in Japan this year...

But I am unsure if ProPilot 2 is following through on that plan or what.

Also there are a good handful of BMW cars REM harvesting in US and Europe as well as some VW cars. and I think FCA will start REM harvesting soon and Ford a while later. And Nissan probably will when they move ProPilot 2.0 to US

 

[dhanson865]

Where does it say it doesn’t work in tunnels?
HD maps would have prevented the autopilot fatality where the guy ran into a gore point.
They’re using a Mobileye chip two generations newer than the chip used in first generation Autopilot so I assume it can recognize lane lines and navigate tunnels just fine.

You can't run into a gore point (if you mean "run into" as a way to say "hit).

FHWA - MUTCD - 2003 Edition Figure 3b-08-1 Long Description

The "gore" is an area of unpaved land between the road segments, the "gore point" is the actual tip of the V in paint (where the road paths split) or the corner of grass or dirt behind the barrier (the paint is theoretical gore point, the grass or dirt is physical gore point).

No area you can drive on inside or outside the paint is the gore point and any barrier or divider is not the gore point either.

Gore (road) - Wikipedia

"gore point" in general gets misused a lot. You can't hit a gore, you can drive over a gore, you can drive through a gore, you can drive on a gore. If you hit something it's probably a barrier of some type, but it isn't a gore.

 

[azred]

Nissan to launch hands-off ProPilot 2.0 driver-assistance in Japan - Roadshow

So much for Tesla being 3+ years ahead.

Always good to hear a Tesla critic from the ICE capital. Someday Musk will get a clue and follow Detroit engineers.

 

[Daniel in SD]

You can't run into a gore point (if you mean "run into" as a way to say "hit).

Your wikipedia link says there are two types of gores, theoretical and physical. I guess I need to clarify that he ran into a physical gore.

 

[dhanson865]

Your wikipedia link says there are two types of gores, theoretical and physical. I guess I need to clarify that he ran into a physical gore.

no, I explained that above.

The virtual gore is off the bottom of the picture below the striped area. The physical gore is the grass between the red and blue signs.

A physical gore is the area of grass or dirt inside a triangular area. He didn't run into any grass or dirt area.

If it's raised ground it's an embankment not a gore.

But the accident you are talking about he hit a barrier or divider of some kind. He never made it past the barrier into the physical gore (and if he did that would just be the same as if he rolled down the road)

no matter how you twist it you can't hit a gore, at least not with a car. If you want to dive bomb a gore with a plane you could crash into the grass there but at that point the gore is no different than any other ground around there.

 

[Daniel in SD]

no matter how you twist it you can't hit a gore, at least not with a car. If you want to dive bomb a gore with a plane you could crash into the grass there but at that point the gore is no different than any other ground around there.

Wow you feel very strongly about this. I'm pretty sure the physical gore can be made of a hard material that you can in fact hit. For the purposes of describing what happened it seems much easier to say that "he hit a gore point" than "he hit a broken collapsible barrier at the physical gore". YMMV.

 

[dhanson865]

Wow you feel very strongly about this. I'm pretty sure the physical gore can be made of a hard material that you can in fact hit. For the purposes of describing what happened it seems much easier to say that "he hit a gore point" than "he hit a broken collapsible barrier at the physical gore". YMMV.

View attachment 410024

notice a triangular / V shape near where they labeled gore point in the image you posted.

Now look at the divider the Tesla hit, it's effectively a 2 dimensional straight line. It isn't a V shape or triangle, it's just a straight line with a rectangular barrier at the end.

The only "gore" shape there was made with paint.

"A gore (modern British English: nose) refers to a triangular piece of land."

If the concrete were at least in a triangular shape similar to the paint I'd have kept my mouth shut about use of the word gore to describe what he hit.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I feel like this conversation may have gone off topic!

EDIT:

It isn't a V shape or triangle, it's just a straight line with a rectangular barrier at the end.

If you look very, very closely at the end of the “straight line,” you’ll find it comes to a point. Possibly at the molecular level. Lines have zero width. So this is more a rectangle tapering to a point, protected by the crash attenuator.

 

[renim]

FWIW, i wouldn't technically call that particular median barrier terminal as a gore point, but I wouldn't object using that term to the wider public.

The blame will probably be apportioned 3 ways, (road owner, car maker and driver) as each of these three couldv'e reasonably made decisions that would've avoided the fatality. I will say that it does demonstrate the difference between theory and practice. And that although HD maps are not seen as superior to full autonomy, that HD mapping should've avoided that particular fatality.

The general assumption is that the vehicle maintaining flow of traffic, is doing the baseline correct action, GPS and HD mapping should avoid established structures, they are insufficient for roadworks, but the baseline is the as constructed roads.

 

[Bladerskb]

As with all driver-assistance features like this, Nissan emphasizes that ProPilot 2.0 can only operate in certain, safe situations. For instance, it won't work around toll booths or exit ramps; the driver will be prompted to take over in those cases.

So again, it won't work on exit ramps?! NOA does work on exit tamps. NOA works on more roads and more situations and all without driver interventions.

Basically, Nissan is releasing something similar to NOA, slightly inferior, but it uses camera to monitor driver so you and others herald it as superior. But Tesla released NOA which is superior in capability, just requires nags, months before Nissan. Nissan is the one catching up.

I have more info on this. it handles exits and interchanges just like NOA.

 

[Bladerskb]

Where does it say it doesn’t work in tunnels?
HD maps would have prevented the autopilot fatality where the guy ran into a gore point.
They’re using a Mobileye chip two generations newer than the chip used in first generation Autopilot so I assume it can recognize lane lines and navigate tunnels just fine.

Definitely, look how detailed the map Nissan is using:

 

[diplomat33]

I have more info on this. it handles exits and interchange just like NOA.

Thanks. Good to know. It seems like ProPilot 2 is very similar to NOA in terms of features. The big difference is how it handles driver attention. ProPilot 2 uses an inside camera to monitor the driver which allows for hands free driving whereas NOA requires hands on wheel.

 

[acoste]

Thanks. Good to know. It seems like ProPilot 2 is very similar to NOA in terms of features. The big difference is how it handles driver attention. ProPilot 2 uses an inside camera to monitor the driver which allows for hands free driving whereas NOA requires hands on wheel.

There is another big difference, the positioning / path planning of the car. Since it relies on estimating distances to pre-mapped objects it is unlikely to hit a barrier or wander left and right in the lane.

 

[diplomat33]

There is another big difference, the positioning / path planning of the car. Since it relies on estimating distances to pre-mapped objects it is unlikely that it would hit a barrier or it would wander left and right in the lane.

With AP3 vision, Tesla's Nav on AP won't do those things either.

 

[acoste]

With AP3 vision, Tesla's Nav on AP won't do those things either.

In case of the accident above and the MV accident the issue is with the NN in the first place. It has been reported that occasionally the car follows the left line starting from the gore point but on the right side of it (it enters into the triangle behind the gore point). It is surprising to me that they were unable to solve it for more than a year now.

 

[croman]

With AP3 vision, Tesla's Nav on AP won't do those things either.

You don't know that. What a joke.

 

[Snuffysasa]

I will be interesting to see reviews of this when its in the hands of consumers this fall.

After the latest information I've seen, I highly expect this system to exceed Autopilot in performance / reliability / safety. Especially in places where lane markings are confusing, worn/faded, or covered, and when making lane changes in traffic.

 

[EVNow]

There is another big difference, the positioning / path planning of the car. Since it relies on estimating distances to pre-mapped objects it is unlikely to hit a barrier or wander left and right in the lane.

What happens if the road has changed since last HD mapping ? If it can identify and not hit new or changed objects, why does it need HD mapping at all.