No transmission - you beauty!

[BarnabySydney]

As I sit here in Australia waiting for the first of the Model 3's to arrive any day now, the thing I'm looking forward to the most about this car is the lack of a transmission. I've always had manual cars because I love how you can be in the right gear for a corner and then zoom out of it. My current car is an automatic and the only automatic I've owned and, yes you can shift it manually but it doesn't feel as good.

I'm lucky to be in this position of buying a Tesla because a few months ago I was intending to sell my five year old BMW 1 Series auto and buy the same car new but with a manual transmission. I was hoping also to get one of the last rear wheel drive 1 Series before the new front drive models appear later this year. I could not believe it when I found out that it is impossible to buy a new BMW 1 series as a manual. What the? A company that uses the slogan The Ultimate Driving Experience does not sell a manual car in this series?

Anyway the problem with a manual or automatic transmission is that if you suddenly want to accelerate it takes a few seconds. In a manual you have to shift. In an auto when you put your foot down it takes a while for the action to start. I was showing my son this on the way home from school. I said to him I'll tell you when I'm going to put my foot to the floor and we'll see what happens. I put my foot to the floor (we were only doing about 30kmh). Nothing happened for a second while the car though about what to do, then it actually stopped accelerating as it figured out a few gears, then it made a lot of noise and finally it began to get going.

I used to race go-karts and maybe because of this the things I hold highest in a car is the handling, the way it goes around corners, and the transmission. I've had a couple of 4WD's or SUV's in my time and I just can't deal with the way they handle and have to sell them after about a year.

So the thing I'm looking forward to the most is the lack of transmission in a Tesla, the ability to be able to apply the power coming out of a corner or to apply it instantly if needed.

Cheers from Oz.

 

[SubSolar]

I like not having a transmission cause one less thing to go wrong and maintain. But I feel the Performance models would have better top end acceleration if we had gears?

 

[RobDickinson]

Was transmission less with an outlander phev its nice, now in manual 15 years old mx5 slightly different feel lol

Hurry up model 3!

 

[khayyam]

I like not having a transmission cause one less thing to go wrong and maintain. But I feel the Performance models would have better top end acceleration if we had gears?

I don't think so? Even 100mph is only ~1400 rpm and the torque curve is still basically flat?

 

[khayyam]

Basically 100% with you barnaby. Automatics are an abomination, unless the driving experience is already dire - eg suv or traffic. Hopefully having one gear which is always the right gear will be just like always having made the right change!

 

[FlyNavy01]

I don't think so? Even 100mph is only ~1400 rpm and the torque curve is still basically flat?

Not sure what you're referring to here, but at 100mph the motor(s) in the Model 3 are spinning at ~11,700rpm.

A second gear would definitely help top end punch and likely push top speed to 180mph+, but would also add a lot of cost and complexity. Considering 99% of driving is done at double digit speeds anyways, it just doesn't make sense from a cost/benefit standpoint.

 

[khayyam]

Not sure what you're referring to here, but at 100mph the motor(s) in the Model 3 are spinning at ~11,700rpm.

A second gear would definitely help top end punch and likely push top speed to 180mph+, but would also add a lot of cost and complexity. Considering 99% of driving is done at double digit speeds anyways, it just doesn't make sense from a cost/benefit standpoint.

Ok, I'm willing to be wrong here, but what's missing? Wheel rpm is about 1400, yes?

Edit: i see they're geared at near 10:1. Ok I stand corrected.

 

[khayyam]

Following on: what would have determined that ratio? Low speed maneuvering? Efficiency/range?

You could make the one ratio taller in order to improve that top end, but what are you giving up?

 

[destructure00]

I came from a 6 speed manual BMW, always enjoyed it more than an auto. Was a little worried I'd miss shifting in the Model 3.....NOPE! It's so much better having the instant throttle response. And the regen/one pedal driving still makes you feel connected to the car in a similar way. Love it!

 

[disapr]

You're going to love the Tesla.

Single speed, instant torque/response and loads of grip, perfection.

On the topic of transmissions, ZF and others are developing 2 speed transmission/drive for EV's. Tesla originally tried to use a 2 speed transmission and couldn't solve the engineering problem in time.

I suspect that the Roadster will have a 2 speed transmission, but consider that it might only shift into second around 100mph or higher. I'm not sure how else they are going to provide both the bottom and top end specs for the vehicle.

 

[MoreAgain]

I came from a 6 speed manual BMW, always enjoyed it more than an auto. Was a little worried I'd miss shifting in the Model 3.....NOPE! It's so much better having the instant throttle response. And the regen/one pedal driving still makes you feel connected to the car in a similar way. Love it!

I agree - one-Pedal driving provides an amazing level of control throughout the whole range of the pedal. With just a slight lift off the throttle, the regenerative braking provides that sense of control that you have with a manual ICE that has just geared-down.

 

[AdamVIP]

While 1 speed will be the standard for awhile. ZF already has a 2 speed electric transmission in the works. Eventually it will be an efficiency thing on the highway for all EVs.

 

[640k]

another manual transmission hold out. sold my 2008 STi for a Tesla and haven't looked back. i was on the fence about buying a hybrid and i remembered that i've basically ruined nearly every automatic transmission vehicle i've ever owned because it's never "in the right gear".

not having to wait, having confidence of pedal acceleration when i request it and you still get the feeling of super-light flywheel allowing the engine to slow down the vehicle. the sales guy was surprised how quickly i caught on to the braking, and it was nearly identical to a racing clutch (slowing down).

 

[SSedan]

I like not having a transmission cause one less thing to go wrong and maintain. But I feel the Performance models would have better top end acceleration if we had gears?

My P85 has a wounded secondary charger, quote is $2200 to fix it.....for now I am just leaving it be. I don't need full 80amp capable charging.

This idea that EVs have nothing to fail is dishonest, yes the motor/battery are different but even if we lie and pretend those are perfect the rest of the car is just a car.

I love it, don't see me going back to ICE, but at 88k it has needed a lot more repairs than my wife's same year slightly more mileage Chevy Impala.

 

[640k]

...but at 88k it has needed a lot more repairs than my wife's same year slightly more mileage Chevy Impala.

like what? my 12 y/o subaru had four batteries, three power steering pumps, three clutches, a new set of tires almost every year, entire AC replaced and engine rebuilt.... and that was just the BIG stuff.

i don't think anyone is delusional that EV cars are completely maintenance free but less components will always mean less opportunity for failure. see SSD vs. HDD.

 

[mongo]

I suspect that the Roadster will have a 2 speed transmission, but consider that it might only shift into second around 100mph or higher. I'm not sure how else they are going to provide both the bottom and top end specs for the vehicle.

There is nothing stopping Roadster from hitting its numbers with a single speed gear box.

Top end limit: Back EMF from motors + (winding resistance * current (torque)) < Pack Voltage
Bottom end limit: Current (torque) > (mass*acceleration)

So with double the top speed of an S (roughly), at the same max motor RPM, they need double the gear ratio. That means on the low end, they need to provide double the torque (for the same acceleration). This can happen by providing double the current, using twice as many motors, or changing the motor windings (which would increase top end back EMF). The Roadster rear drive unit is dual motor, so that handles most of the power aspect on its own.

While 1 speed will be the standard for awhile. ZF already has a 2 speed electric transmission in the works. Eventually it will be an efficiency thing on the highway for all EVs.

Higher RPM with lower current is usually more efficient than lower RPM with higher current (same net power output).

 

[raptor5244]

like what? my 12 y/o subaru had four batteries, three power steering pumps, three clutches, a new set of tires almost every year, entire AC replaced and engine rebuilt.... and that was just the BIG stuff.

12v batteries don't seem to last very long depending on your conditions. 4 batteries over 12 years does not surprise me, that is why most come with a 36 month warranty. Tires and clutches are wear items and it sounds like you may have been hard of them? AC, power steering pumps and engine rebuild seems excessive but Subarus are not know for stellar reliability either.

 

[Scott7]

I agree entirely. I think there are a lot of driving enthusiasts out there that have yet to discover that a single-gear EV is actually better from a driver's input perspective than a manual ICE. There is no input lag at any speed.

 

[Octo]

If you don’t like ICE transmission lag, an EV like the Model 3 is *the* cure.

My P3’s responsiveness is amazing. It’s like the motor control becomes part of my body (as corny as that sounds). Even the slightest movement of the pedal results in immediate acceleration or braking. I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of it.

And stomping on the accelerator is an immediate kick in the butt.

My other cars are a Porsche Macan S and a BMW Z4 with double clutch automatic transmissions. Step on the gas = wait until things sort themselves out for what seems like an eternity before the turbos spool up and it moves.

 

[640k]

12v batteries don't seem to last very long depending on your conditions. 4 batteries over 12 years does not surprise me, that is why most come with a 36 month warranty. Tires and clutches are wear items and it sounds like you may have been hard of them? AC, power steering pumps and engine rebuild seems excessive but Subarus are not know for stellar reliability either.

for whatever reason the subaru ate through batteries. i've had batteries last longer than 50k miles without ever an issue and the subaru straight up couldn't start after 30-40k for whatever reason this latest battery lasted the longest.

agreed on the wear items but it definitely started to feel like there was "always something" that needed replacing after the car hit the 10 year mark. the engine/AC rebuilds were a huge hit. $6500 later.... i was pretty much over ICE/vehicle maintenance.