North American Charging Standard.

[richyrich]

Redundant, but superior to all comers.

Yeah the CCS connector is SO awkward, especially when you see anyone smaller/weaker trying to wield it and get it into the charge port - the combination of size, weight, having to align multiple oddly shaped parts of the plug and often heavy cables is a usability nightmare. That's after people have got the hatch and the smaller mini-cover thing open - ugh.

To me it looks like a design-by-committee job - I'm sure the CCS plug is 100% perfect on paper, but there was barely any thinking about non-technical requirements. The Tesla connector on the other hand was clearly made as easy and usable as possible AND technically excellent.

 

[DuncanM]

Redundant, but superior to all comers.

It all hinges on a NACS to CCS1 adapter, otherwise your first word summarizes the current situation for NACS. Without an NACS to CCS1 adapter something like a million CCS1 cars (current and projected for late 2023 when a changeover to NACS could happen) would be orphaned, and GM, Ford, VW, etc. would never agree to that.

 

[DuncanM]

Yeah the CCS connector is SO awkward, especially when you see anyone smaller/weaker trying to wield it and get it into the charge port - the combination of size, weight, having to align multiple oddly shaped parts of the plug and often heavy cables is a usability nightmare. That's after people have got the hatch and the smaller mini-cover thing open - ugh.

To me it looks like a design-by-committee job - I'm sure the CCS plug is 100% perfect on paper, but there was barely any thinking about non-technical requirements. The Tesla connector on the other hand was clearly made as easy and usable as possible AND technically excellent.

I fully agree that NACS is the better connector, but it will fail as a standard if it cannot be connected to a CCS1 port via an adapter.

 

[israndy]

Yeah the CCS connector is SO awkward, especially when you see anyone smaller/weaker trying to wield it and get it into the charge port - the combination of size, weight, having to align multiple oddly shaped parts of the plug and often heavy cables is a usability nightmare. That's after people have got the hatch and the smaller mini-cover thing open - ugh.

To me it looks like a design-by-committee job - I'm sure the CCS plug is 100% perfect on paper, but there was barely any thinking about non-technical requirements. The Tesla connector on the other hand was clearly made as easy and usable as possible AND technically excellent.

I was just trying to charge with my CCS adapter at EA, usually I just plug in and it's free, but now that I have signed up for an account I have to open the app and swipe right to start the charge. I was there for 1/2 an hour and tried dozens of times, meanwhile I watched a guy with a BMW trying to charge and a Porsche guy try to help him. When the Porsche left the BMW moved to that stall, but was not charging when I gave up. At least the CHAdeMO car next to me charged successfully and left...

I signed up for Blue Dot app to get 20% off Supercharging and other discounts, I'll be dig dogged if I can figure out how to add money to it:

Bluedot - EV Charging & Wallet

Introducing Bluedot: The Ultimate EV Charging Solution! Bluedot is more than just an electric vehicle (EV) charging solution. It's a comprehensive platform designed to enhance your electric vehicle experience, offering savings, rewards, and a community of EV enthusiasts. Whether you drive a Tesla,…

apps.apple.com

 

[ai4px]

What do you think?

Opening the North American Charging Standard | Tesla

www.tesla.com

THe magic will happen when the first Aptera is sold. At that point, the supercharger network will fulfill the requirement of public charging by charging "more than one brand of car". The question I suppose is does aptera count as a "car" or "motorcycle" or "vehicle"?

 

[cleverscreenam]

The question I suppose is does aptera count as a "car" or "motorcycle" or "vehicle"?

Autocycle, a new official classification of 3 wheeled vehicles.

 

[ai4px]

Autocycle, a new official classification of 3 wheeled vehicles.

But does the wording of the public charger funding permit autocycles to count towards the "must charge two brands". If I were Musk, I'd be helping aptera in any way I could.

 

[Genie]

Do Canada and US both offer subsidies for charger construction under the same terms? Specifically the language on plugs? Another question, do subsidies (either country) only apply to new installations or would adding a second cord per existing stall qualify?
If the regulating language differs, Supercharger design in the two counties also may differ.

 

[wayner]

It can also be different depending on state/province. Here in Canada there is a federal govt program, but that is fairly new. Prior to that there were subsidies by my provincial government here in Ontario, but those went away in 2018. Other places like Quebec and BC have had, and may still have, their own subsidy programs for charger construction both for homes and for public locations.

 

[DuncanM]

Do Canada and US both offer subsidies for charger construction under the same terms? Specifically the language on plugs? Another question, do subsidies (either country) only apply to new installations or would adding a second cord per existing stall qualify?
If the regulating language differs, Supercharger design in the two counties also may differ.

BC and Canada offer a variety of subsidies and incentives for building EV charging infrastructure, Additionally, some provinces, like BC, require their Grid monopoly (including BC Hydro) to install and operate DCFCs around the province.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Now that this is a "standard", can people buy parts? For example. when I watch all these EV conversions (ATVs, cars, etc) they all seem to use the J1772.

Now can they use the Tesla one? I'd wager none of them plan to supercharge, but it's a nice connector.

 

[meitschis]

I think NACS is less an issue of "a few years late" for current charging needs than it is of "just in time" for future charging needs (megawatt, Cybertruck, other vehicles with large batteries, like ambulances etc. and up to class 8 semis)

The synergies of using NACS for megawatt charging are spectacular (in North America, with an existing NACS fleet)

The Case for NACS over MCS - kiloWatt.page

Deploying NACS in North America for V4 and Semi Trucks creates massive positive synergies for Tesla.

kilowatt.page

All of that can be achieved with dual cables on V4 chargers, of course. If necessary, Tesla will put CCS on V4 for CCS vehicles, and MCS for MCS vehicles. But if those vehicles all are running on NACS, it will be a lot cheaper, easier, and everyone would be better off.

The CCS providers are struggling rolling out their charging network in North America. Is there anyone out there ready and capable to roll out a nationwide MCS network?

In CCS regions (Europe, primarily), CCS/MCS may be the outcome. Tesla wont go there for years anyway.

 

[MP3Mike]

Now that this is a "standard", can people buy parts? For example. when I watch all these EV conversions (ATVs, cars, etc) they all seem to use the J1772.

Now can they use the Tesla one? I'd wager none of them plan to supercharge, but it's a nice connector.

Lectron had stated that they are going to start making NACS stuff. And Aptera has said that they will sell their parts...

 

[rypalmer]

Now that this is a "standard", can people buy parts? For example. when I watch all these EV conversions (ATVs, cars, etc) they all seem to use the J1772.

Now can they use the Tesla one? I'd wager none of them plan to supercharge, but it's a nice connector.

Coming soon to Alibaba I am sure..

 

[henderrj]

THe magic will happen when the first Aptera is sold. At that point, the supercharger network will fulfill the requirement of public charging by charging "more than one brand of car". The question I suppose is does aptera count as a "car" or "motorcycle" or "vehicle"?

I'm not sure that Aptera would qualify as a car. It is a three-wheeled vehicle, and that's a motorcycle. It may be the loophole that keeps certain entities, that don't want Tesla successful, from having to admit that there is more than one company using the nacs.

We need someone to make a fleet order for a vehicle normally supplied with ccs1 to require that it be outfitted with nacs. 500 to 2,000 vehicles should be enough to make a number of different companies react. I'm thinking canoo, maybe Toyota, but probably one of the new smaller companies. Maybe lordstown?

 

[ai4px]

I'm not sure that Aptera would qualify as a car. It is a three-wheeled vehicle, and that's a motorcycle. It may be the loophole that keeps certain entities, that don't want Tesla successful, from having to admit that there is more than one company using the nacs.

We need someone to make a fleet order for a vehicle normally supplied with ccs1 to require that it be outfitted with nacs. 500 to 2,000 vehicles should be enough to make a number of different companies react. I'm thinking canoo, maybe Toyota, but probably one of the new smaller companies. Maybe lordstown?

I was / am worried that aptera won't meet the qualification to be called "another brand car". And I'm quite sure that all the other OEMs have make pinky promises to never blink and give in and use a Tesla plug.
You know what though? Kyle at "out of spec reviews" has been giving CCS chargers the (bad) attention that they so richly deserve. Elon needs to quickly adapt the protocol of the super chargers to speak CCS and sell a CCS adapter to all those driving Ford, GM, VW, Kia.... and expose the OEMs for what they are doing. They are complicit in making charging such a miserable experience that it will ensure that no one wants to look at an EV for another generation.

 

[ai4px]

You know guys, it just hit me a possible issue with a NACS to CCS adapter... it depends on the car to latch on and there's no provision for that in the adapter. I guess 2nd best is to make a latch release button that also signaled to stop charging. The /last/ thing we need is a 400v or 800v arc flash when some yanks a plug out.

 

[israndy]

Will be interesting to see what Tesla has come up with to get around that issue

 

[MP3Mike]

It depends on the car to latch on and there's no provision for that in the adapter.

No provision in what adapter? Tesla hasn't released the NACS to CCS adapter yet, it is supposed to start production next year. (My guess is that it will be a adapter cable, similar to the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter, and will obviously have the ability to lock the CCS1 latch.)

 

[Goulag]

No provision in what adapter? Tesla hasn't released the NACS to CCS adapter yet, it is supposed to start production next year. (My guess is that it will be a adapter cable, similar to the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter, and will obviously have the ability to lock the CCS1 latch.)

Tesla has already installed a few locations with the Magic dock in the USA. I imagine soon here in Canada too after the annoucement that they're opening a stretch of the Superchargers to all EVs from Sudbury to Ottawa. The NACS plug locks itself to the magic dock/CCS adapter, which then would allow the car to lock to that.