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NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway

Discussion in 'News' started by Jeeps17, Feb 8, 2013.

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  1. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    Right, all things being equal and relative. Which they are not in, oh, say, upper state New York in February.

    Seriously, you don't have to be a genius to figure this out. Does Tesla really have to 'qualify' that statement for the masses?

    The Model S battery will not lose a significant amount of charge when parked for long periods of time - except when the temperature dips below freezing, and then you can expect the batteries to behave like all other batteries of the same type in cold temperatures, and exponentially as the temperature drops lower blah, blah, blah...

    Apparently the answer for some is: h e double hockey sticks, yes. :rolleyes:
     
  2. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    He still decided to take a 60 mile trip with 30 miles of range. At least that's what we can figure out from what he wrote. No way to explain that away other than he wanted to run out and document getting towed.
     
  3. dave

    dave Member

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    Tesla also tells us we can't use an extension cord to charge, making it difficult to plug in unless you happen to find a parking spot directly beside an outlet.
     
  4. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    The article brings up a lot of valid points and issues with EV travel but loses all credibility with the way he handled his trip at the end. It does highlight the need for at least more 110V outlets are places like hotels. Not great but would be better than nothing.
     
  5. carrerascott

    carrerascott FUEL FTR

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    Remember when you used to have to look for "that seat" in an airport to plug your laptop or cellphone in? (Some airports you still have to search...) But a lot of airports have come into the modern era and have outlets or USB ports everywhere. Let's hope the same will happen for plugging in EVs...
     
  6. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    For some, it's a stretch...this is why the user manual for your lawn mower advises you to "not pick up your running mower and use it to trim your hedge...:rolleyes:

    Ever hear the Jeff Foxworthy bit about why the instructions for Preparation H state that it is not to be used orally? (pretty funny bit...sad, but true):biggrin:

    Sum people is stoopid beyund beleaf...





     
  7. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    #107 Robert.Boston, Feb 9, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013
    Tesla doesn't recommend using an extension cord for charging, but it works just fine provided that you buy properly sized extension cords. I regularly charge from a 50' 6/3 + 8/1 NEMA 14-50 extension cord, and when I travel in rural areas, I carry a 50' 10-gauge 120v extension cord (which has come in handy charging at various schools during wrestling meets). Wire is wire, just make sure what you're bringing is thick enough to carry full amperage for the distance.

    This is another example of Tesla communicating inaccurate or potentially misleading information about the car to customers. Tesla should include in its owner's manual a concise, accurate discussion of long-distance driving -- one that does not assume that everyone lives in perfect 70°F climates. There's a huge amount of lore developed by the EV pioneers that Tesla should convey to its customers. Had they done so, then this NYT debacle either wouldn't have occurred, or at least Tesla could have rebutted the story by showing how the reporter directly contradicted the printed recommendations for driving the Model S. As it stands, it appears that Tesla personnel exacerbated the problem. Serious PR fail -- Tesla should have been monitoring this car and its SOC like a hawk and flagged the issue long before it flagged down a tow truck.
     
  8. dave

    dave Member

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    I don't have the manual in front of me, but I'm pretty sure they explicitly say DO NOT use an extension cord.
     
  9. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Yes, a CYA statement so that they can't be blamed for the use of an improperly sized extension cord, or circumventing the various regulations about EVs. (I'm pretty sure there is one that says no extension cords.)
     
  10. Kretsh

    Kretsh New Member

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    Well said. Unless your home has it's own electric generating plant, your home is using "an extension". It's all in the wire size and load. We thank Ohm's Law for that.
     
  11. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Just got an e-mail from the author. It sounds like the author understood from a Tesla engineer that miles would be added back as he drove (which is somewhat accurate when the pack warms up) but he did in fact leave with about 40 miles of rated range for the 65 mile trip to Milford hoping that he would capture back the range from the cold pack. He was charging for an hour on a J1772 charger so the pack was already warm.
     
  12. Owner

    Owner Active Member

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    That's great that the author emailed you back.
     
  13. dave

    dave Member

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    I was just pointing out their actual published directions, since the discussion was about what information Tesla is providing end users about charging and how much end users are expected to know on their own.
     
  14. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I agree. Tesla definitely could have provided him better information but would hope he'll update the article to indicate that he left for his destination with only 2/3 the rated range needed.
     
  15. tomanik

    tomanik Member

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    I expect Tesla will address accuracy of the range indication over time to account for weather and such. However the one concerning item that keeps coming up is range loss in the cold. In Calgary we have 110v plugs in a lot of public parking spots for block heaters but you can really only draw 500w. If thr model s is using 1.3kw to keep the battery warm that definitely needs to be addressed. That's about 4500 btus per hour, even a minor amount of insulation would help if the heat loss is really that much. Concerning anyways.
     
  16. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

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    Among other things, it would be nice if Tesla's range calculator went below 32 degrees F. In my experience, things gets worse as it gets colder than 32F, and this guy saw temps of 10F. Not to mention folks in Manitoba at -35C or something...we need published metrics, so we can anticipate the range loss.
     
  17. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Having driven in rural Manitoba during the winter many times--and is that ice fog ever scary--range will be far shorter regardless of automobile. I suspect that we'll have to rely on posts from TMC members for this information. Then it can be posted in the FAQ section.
     
  18. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    This is critical. The Leaf has had heat issues that have related to range loss too. Manufacturers need to have a temperature compensation either built in or as a 2nd line on range readouts.

    Estimated travel Range: 65 miles
    At current 32 degree temperature: 45 miles
     
  19. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

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    Sadly, this could all easily be built into an onboard app that is fully integrated with the nav destination. Then the driver would be forewarned that there was insufficient range. If you want to make this idiot-proof, that is what you need to do.
     
  20. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

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    Nothing happened to this fellow that we haven't documented on this website. The only failure is that Tesla hasn't publically addressed the issue and been proactive about discussing the available workarounds with owners and reviewers.

    As it is, it sounds like some of the hive knowledge from this site (that rated range increases as a cold pack warms up) was misapplied by California based reps who have probably only ever read about the problems and workarounds, as opposed to being forced to live with them on a daily basis like actual owners have been.

    Regardless, plugging into even a 110v plug at night in cold weather should be holy writ at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just to point out how much of an issue this is going to be, and how much Tesla needs to provide guidance to drivers; Consumer Reports has their long term car in Connecticut. I think they have snow in that state.
     
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