Off topic galore

[indysurfer]

I think because Elon is extremely popular with this group, but they are still against EVs.

FWIW, I don't think Elon has shifted right publicly to sell more cars, nor do I believe we can prove a significant impact on sales from his public shift.

I don't think Elon has shifted either. I think Elon truly believes what he says on Twitter.

Lots of people on this site constantly say Elon's politics is hurting demand. Anecdotally, I have personally experienced the opposite where conservative co-workers and acquaintances reconsider Teslas (not other EV's) because of Elon's politics (and test rides by me).

As I said earlier this week, I think there is a larger market of Conservative converts coming to Tesla than very Liberal EV adopters switching to other inferior and more expensive EV's to spite Elon.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I don't think Elon has shifted either. I think Elon truly believes what he says on Twitter.

Lots of people on this site constantly say Elon's politics is hurting demand. Anecdotally, I have personally experienced the opposite where conservative co-workers and acquaintances reconsider Teslas (not other EV's) because of Elon's politics (and test rides by me).

As I said earlier this week, I think there is a larger market of Conservative converts coming to Tesla than very Liberal EV adopters switching to other inferior and more expensive EV's to spite Elon.

Polling would show the inverse. It seems the group on the right is growing to be more against EVs comparing a 2019 vs 2023 poll.

 

[Drumheller]

Polling would show the inverse. It seems the group on the right is growing to be more against EVs comparing a 2019 vs 2023 poll.

What I've been hearing recently from family and friends that consume politically-right media is that they think it's wrong that the govt is FORCING people to buy an EV and they won't do it!

So that's the talking point being pushed and it is resulting in more people being anti-EV. Add to that, Trump's support is growing thanks to how bad our current govt is in the USA and Trump is speaking out against EVs.

I do think these points are relevant to Tesla and possibly demand of EVs but I understand is this post gets nuked.

 

[2daMoon]

Way to completely miss the point and then oddly try mental gymnastics to argue that isn't a large number. Again, no one said majority.

There are barriers in the US that are special to our political climate. EVs in general have become a campaign talking point on the right because of the passion.

That's why we see so much FUD on EVs in general, because media sells click bate to echo chambers. If EVs weren't a political topic, you don't think adoption would be far higher? If you do, you agree with my point.

You wrote, "There's a large portion of the population that are against EVs as a political stance."

I FTFY to read "a large portion of the population" as I had a hunch it was not a large portion.

Then, you got to quoting Polls (which is always a sketchy affair) and I accepted your numbers as presented.

Next, I provided the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say.

• To do this I used factual data based upon the recorded number of Republicans who voted in the last presidential election.
• Then, distilled that total number, using the percentage you gave.
• Then determined what portion of the entire adult population of the US this 70% of Republicans represents.

If you consider the application of math to be "mental gymnastics" it becomes easier to understand how so many might be easily misled by their preferred statistics.

I used YOUR information and extrapolated from the actual voting record and a 2023 account of the adult population.

Please let me know if I can possibly make this any simpler for you to grok.

Edit: The political narrative and its effect on EV sales has been repeatedly demonstrated to be almost completely inconsequential. A rounding error, at best. Chatter over this topic has been demonstrated to be highly disruptive to investment discussion threads.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Republicans are a bunch of frugal money grubbers. It won’t be long before they realize how much cheaper it is to own an EV.

 

[unk45]

Way to completely miss the point and then oddly try mental gymnastics to argue that isn't a large number. Again, no one said majority.

There are barriers in the US that are special to our political climate. EVs in general have become a campaign talking point on the right because of the passion.

That's why we see so much FUD on EVs in general, because media sells click bate to echo chambers. If EVs weren't a political topic, you don't think adoption would be far higher? If you do, you agree with my point.

I disagreed because there is certainly evidence of wild assertions and some people say they'll not buy a Tesla product, but actual abhavior and those metrics may or may not be related.
As much as we imagine a given impact, we actually do not know what, if any impact there really is and if there is, if it really is negative.

Here is the basis for my skeptical view:
Ancient history:
1950's "people will NEVER buy a car from BMW, or any former Nazi, and those German car makers were Nazi. I remember that although I was a child then.
1960's "Japanese cars are junk, they just copy, not invent."
1970's "A Korean car, No Way! they're ridiculous."
2024: "I'll never buy another Tesla"

People do not act the way they claim they will. never have, never will.
That is why 'intention to vote' and 'do vote' are entirely different categories.

 

[Blue horseshoe]

 

[Usain]

What I've been hearing recently from family and friends that consume politically-right media is that they think it's wrong that the govt is FORCING people to buy an EV and they won't do it!

I've never understood this talking point. Nobody is FORCING anybody buy an EV.

But if they just mean that the government is making it financially smarter to buy an EV, then that's a fair point.

It won't matter though. These are the same people who came out against LED light bulbs. "How dare the government tell me I can't buy my old energy-wasting bulbs!"

In the end, they all bought the LED bulbs. In the end, they will all drive EVs.

 

[Usain]

Republicans are a bunch of frugal money grubbers. It won’t be long before they realize how much cheaper it is to own an EV.

If we are talking about true conservatives, it's not about money grubbing so much as just a resistance to change. That's what it means to be conservative and it's not always a bad thing. But resistance to change comes naturally to a conservative. Thus, they resist EVs.

 

[SunCatcher]

Republicans are a bunch of frugal money grubbers. It won’t be long before they realize how much cheaper it is to own an EV.

But... in this lifetime, right?

 

[Curt Renz]

If we are talking about true conservatives, it's not about money grubbing so much as just a resistance to change. That's what it means to be conservative and it's not always a bad thing. But resistance to change comes naturally to a conservative. Thus, they resist EVs.

“Adapt or perish, now as ever, is nature’s inexorable imperative.” – H.G. Wells

 

[cliff harris]

Its worth remembering that people do a lot of virtue signaling online that never actually translates into action. When elon bought twitter, I kept my eye on 2 'bellweather' accounts that were massively massively anti-elon, and furious, and very snarky, and predicted the site would collapse within a week etc, and one of them still constantly rages about how much they hate him. They both made a big deal out of bluesky, and the other ones which I even cant remember tha names...
Anyway, it goes without saying that both of them are still tweeting as much as ever. It turns out that it was all bluster.
TL; DR: A lot of people who insist loudly they will never buy an EV, and never buy a Tesla, will indeed buy a Tesla.

 

[philw1776]

Republicans are a bunch of frugal money grubbers. It won’t be long before they realize how much cheaper it is to own an EV.

Were I to respond I would be BANNED.

 

[Krugerrand]

I've never understood this talking point. Nobody is FORCING anybody buy an EV.

But if they just mean that the government is making it financially smarter to buy an EV, then that's a fair point.

It won't matter though. These are the same people who came out against LED light bulbs. "How dare the government tell me I can't buy my old energy-wasting bulbs!"

In the end, they all bought the LED bulbs. In the end, they will all drive EVs.

Perhaps the ‘forcing’ belief comes from all the ‘ICE vehicles production will stop by 2035/2040/2050’ being tossed about.

Technically, if the government mandates (and actually follows through) that ICE production ceases at some point then - well.

However, people still always have a choice not to buy an EV. They might not like the choices left, but they’ll have them nonetheless. Don’t buy an EV when that’s all that’s being produced. Buy a classic ICE car. Buy a bicycle. Walk.

But mostly, the people shouting the loudest, stamping their feet the hardest about ‘you can’t make me buy an EV’, are going to have at least one foot in the grave, if not already dead and buried, by the time EV is the only choice.

Nothingburger

 

[wws]

I've never understood this talking point. Nobody is FORCING anybody buy an EV.

But if they just mean that the government is making it financially smarter to buy an EV, then that's a fair point.

It won't matter though. These are the same people who came out against LED light bulbs. "How dare the government tell me I can't buy my old energy-wasting bulbs!"

In the end, they all bought the LED bulbs. In the end, they will all drive EVs.

Lots of noises about banning new ICE car sales in 2030-2035 in several states and countries.

Lots of people were against compact fluorescent light bulbs - including me. Horrible light quality, and many other problems. LED saved the day.

 

[Thekiwi]

Unfortunately the California government only gives us annual data for ZEV sales by make, so we won’t know until 2024 data comes out next January.

That being said, the irony of your comment is that I heard the exact same argument a year ago when I first published this analysis with data up through 2022. And I heard it before that, all the way back to summer 2020. Last March, I made a bet in the Elon & Twitter thread that we would see similar results for the 2023 California BEV data, because several people had stridently argued that the 2022 data was irrelevant and the latest shenanigans were going to have a huge impact. So I set a calendar reminder to revisit again this week. I did so, and—lo and behold—there is still no evidence of a significant problem. At what point do we attribute these “this time is different!!” concerns to recency bias? I think it’s telling that I don’t even know what “particularly egregious activity” from mid-November that you are referring to, and I am certainly more involved in Musk-related news than the average car-buyer is.

Yes, will be great to get some good Q1 data, which is provided by a califorinia industry association IIRC, so may not need to wait that long.

In regards to the November incident, without providing too much detail that would cause this reply to be deleted: you don’t recall why Elon made a trip to Auschwitz? Combine that with the other subject he posts on a near daily basis now and you may get why mid-November was seen by some as a turning point. But yes you are correct that his social media posts have been contentious for a much longer period prior to that.

To also take the “no effect” side, it’s possible that people in the groups that initially disagreed with him the most are in fact mostly not people that that would be buying new $40k+ cars anyway? The groups that were most initially incensed were probably left leaning youth, who weren’t going to be buying $40k cars.

 

[Captkerosene]

A frequent misquote. The actual quote is, "The love of money is the root of all evil"

Greed is the problem. Money is just a tool to be used or abused like any other tool.

In my view, greed is the most common trap for humans, particularly in our current society in the USA.

Exactly wrong. Spout your commie nonsense somewhere else.

 

[CitizenKane]

Its worth remembering that people do a lot of virtue signaling online that never actually translates into action. When elon bought twitter, I kept my eye on 2 'bellweather' accounts that were massively massively anti-elon, and furious, and very snarky, and predicted the site would collapse within a week etc, and one of them still constantly rages about how much they hate him. They both made a big deal out of bluesky, and the other ones which I even cant remember tha names...
Anyway, it goes without saying that both of them are still tweeting as much as ever. It turns out that it was all bluster.
TL; DR: A lot of people who insist loudly they will never buy an EV, and never buy a Tesla, will indeed buy a Tesla.

I think this is correct as long as the product is clearly superior. But don't forget the Pepsi Challenge (Extending the “Pepsi Paradox” to Diet Cola - Office of the Vice President for Research | University of South Carolina) where people preferred Pepsi in blind tastes but STILL bought Coke after that. That is pure brand effect.

Also, in the beginning of Tesla's history I would say many of us that bought Tesla cars did so more with heart than with brain. We believed in Tesla's mission and wanted to support that. Now a lot of us feel quite differently. Since Tesla is so personified by Musk, whenever he tweets something stupid or outright evil (in my view his uninformed statements on Russia's invasion of Ukraine are supporting evil) it makes many of us much less positive to the Tesla brand. This is also now quite clear in various polls on brand popularity.

So, if in the future when I need to buy a new car a Mercedes or Volvo is almost as good as a Tesla, it is very likely that I would buy it, whereas when I bought my first Model X I bought it despite rationally understanding that I was overpaying for something that hardly was the best alternative as a personal car.

I would also be very concerned about Tesla's ability to attract skilled employees in the future. Tesla needs brilliant engineers etc and quite a few of them are very likely not subscribing to Musk's various strange conspiracy theories and bordering racist tweets.

Another reflection from outside the US. Your right - left scale doesn't easily translate into European politics. Sure the Trumpist isolationist and xenophobic views are found among the ultimate right here as well, but when it comes to trade tariffs and anti-globalism also to a great extent on the far left. In my country Sweden I would be seen as a clear right person, based on my liberal views in a range of issues, and very few educated people leaning right here support Trump. A moderate republican like Romney, McCain in his days or even Nikki Haley would find much more support in Europe, whereas most people find it absurd how so many Americans can support Trump, who comes out as a despicable person but perhaps more importantly one whose (few) political ideas seem to be based on narcissistic fantasies rather than on realities.

 

[winfield100]

 

[Quesder]

Bah, you know what, I'm HOLDing long term no matter what happens today. Don't know why I'm even bothering to read about this rumor crap, 5-10 years from now none of it will matter when RT's are all over the roads and Optimus bots are being sold like iphones.

I'm going for a drive in my Model Y on FSD v12.3.3 to listen to some techno music and get a bite to eat!

Serious Question: Does FSD now really allows you to eat while it is driving?

I have a feeling that it does, although quite often it asks you to "Apply slight turning force on the wheel."
I assume it is possible to hold a burger with BOTH hands and when that nagging message pops, you just rub pull the wheel with the edge with your palm?

I think this is also a game-changing thing, because now you can buy a bag of food and drag items out with BOTH hands, unlike previously that you have to hold the wheel with one hand, and the other hand blindly grab items out.

You can even eat box food, one hand hold the box and the other the fork.

Ah.... maybe you don't need this at all. When you do super charging on a long trip, you have plenty of time eating with both hands.