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I don’t think it’s dangerous at all. It never overrides driver will. Check out Whole Mars Twitter feed of fsdbeta videos. He has some of the best concise videos out there, along with multiple other tester videos since October, ones with longer drives with zero interventions. The successes still outweigh the fails.
Tesla does not agree with you. They even say so. (“May do the wrong thing at the worst time.” This is dangerous, when operating a motor vehicle, when the system is not used with extreme care - the driver needs to be 100% driving the vehicle at all times, when FSD is engaged, and that can be a difficult ask for drivers.)
 
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I made a drive from NYC to buffalo....6 hour ride high way all the way. Have to admit the autopilot beta features that we have available sure worked amazing. Lane changes very smooth, only one intervention which was interesting.

I was on the highway going 65 middle lane with no one behind me and I was on an elevation in which the cameras picked up a redlight that was of on the service road. The line of site was exactly inline with my car so it was interpreted that the red light was on my road, not the service road. So the car slowed down very abruptly from 65 down to 40 and then I took control. I immediately knew what happened,....but if a car was right behind me that could have caused a rear end accident.

So its great, but you still need drivers assistance.

another minor thing was on the off ramp from one highway to another it slowed down, but not enough,...took 55 mph in a suggested 40 mph ramp. seems to be a common problem.

I can wait for fsd a little longer because at least the majority of FSD is on the highway which is available....Im always driving myself on city streets. But of course, would love to test out city street FSD driving.


Rob
 
but if a car was right behind me that could have caused a rear end accident.
I am not singling you out specifically, but this argument that unexpected braking could cause an accident is bunk. What if it was a deer that was on the road instead of a (misidentified) red light? You would brake, of course. If you were hit from behind, it would be the other driver's fault, not yours. It is the same situation here. The driver following always has to be prepared for you to brake.

Yes there are things that need to be addressed to avoid unexpected braking, but overly dramatizing it with words such as "dangerous" and "cause an accident" are counterproductive.

edit: It may annoy the driver behind you, and this is a legitimate gripe. But it is not dangerous in and of itself.
 
It is the case in the US. I also highly doubt that in Canada, a person slamming on their brakes to avoid a deer (or anything for that matter) would be at fault if someone was following too closely and hit them from behind. There was zero negligence on the person who got hit.
Nice job avoiding the problem.

I am saying (and so is the other guy), that slaming on the brake for no reason (ie. Phantom braking incidents), will result in you getting the ticket. Not the person behind you.
 
Nice job avoiding the problem.

I am saying (and so is the other guy), that slaming on the brake for no reason (ie. Phantom braking incidents), will result in you getting the ticket. Not the person behind you.
ap is not “slamming on the brakes“ i .e. AEB despite the drama that is presented on this forum. It is braking expectedly. Not an emergency maneuver. There is no way in hell that should cause an accident.
 
Have to admit the autopilot beta features that we have available sure worked amazing. Lane changes very smooth, only one intervention which was interesting.
Tesla does not agree with you. They even say so. (“May do the wrong thing at the worst time.” This is dangerous, when operating a motor vehicle, when the system is not used with extreme care - the driver needs to be 100% driving the vehicle at all times, when FSD is engaged, and that can be a difficult ask for drivers.)
"May do the wrong thing at the worst time" when drivers are responsible for being ready to take over is not dangerous.

Drivers using FSD and not paying attention and not being ready to take over are the ones who are dangerous!
 
"May do the wrong thing at the worst time" when drivers are responsible for being ready to take over is not dangerous.

Drivers using FSD and not paying attention and not being ready to take over are the ones who are dangerous!
I think that's subject to some debate. It's not the same thing for the car to be providing inputs and the human responding to it during monitoring, as it is for a human doing the driving with no computer input. It's just different, even though in both cases the human is 100% driving.

As long as the driver is 100% driving when using FSD, I agree that it's probably not that dangerous. But I think it is hard to argue that a system that does things which require humans to intervene (either the driver of the FSD-equipped vehicle, or the driver of the other vehicle) to avoid an accident is "not dangerous."
 
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ap is not “slamming on the brakes“ i .e. AEB despite the drama that is presented on this forum. It is braking expectedly. Not an emergency maneuver. There is no way in hell that should cause an accident.
Totally agree and I use FSD (a.k.a. EAP:) )on both of our cars almost everywhere. That means it has been used four years+ on one car and three+ on the other, a pretty significant sample size -- with no close calls. But that is partially because I never let it drive my car.

I usually can anticipate the places I get the unexpected braking. However, my wife never uses autopilot, as she finds the erratic behavior more trouble than it is worth. I respect her decision but like you totally reject the notion that an attentive driver will get into an accident caused by AP/EAP/FSD. It helps me always by providing 8 additional eyeballs during maneuvering.

My only regret is buying FSD when EAP would have sufficed for these past four years. If my cars were leases I would be pretty upset that I was told in 12/2016 that FSD would be worth something beyond EAP within a year.
 
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I am not singling you out specifically, but this argument that unexpected braking could cause an accident is bunk. What if it was a deer that was on the road instead of a (misidentified) red light? You would brake, of course. If you were hit from behind, it would be the other driver's fault, not yours. It is the same situation here. The driver following always has to be prepared for you to brake.

Yes there are things that need to be addressed to avoid unexpected braking, but overly dramatizing it with words such as "dangerous" and "cause an accident" are counterproductive.

edit: It may annoy the driver behind you, and this is a legitimate gripe. But it is not dangerous in and of itself.
Oh it's absolutely a danger. I've experienced 3 incidents of extreme road rage from my goddamn Tesla behaving like a complete dipshit on the interstate, deciding to slam on brakes for the dumbest reasons. If someone slammed breaks while I was driving behind them on the interstate for what appears to be literally no reason would absolutely piss me off as well. Road rage is a natural result of poor driving AI and is an actual danger to motorists
 
Oh it's absolutely a danger. I've experienced 3 incidents of extreme road rage from my goddamn Tesla behaving like a complete dipshit on the interstate, deciding to slam on brakes for the dumbest reasons. If someone slammed breaks while I was driving behind them on the interstate for what appears to be literally no reason would absolutely piss me off as well. Road rage is a natural result of poor driving AI and is an actual danger to motorists
We all know that when using AP/NOA/FSD etc we have to be be ready to take back full control at any time, you should be especially ready with your history of so many 'extreme road rage' reactions. If you are using the driver aids as instructed, then if your car does 'slam on the brakes' you should be ready & able to override that as quickly as it happened, then you can use your ample torque to put distance back between you & whatever is behind you.
 
We all know that when using AP/NOA/FSD etc we have to be be ready to take back full control at any time, you should be especially ready with your history of so many 'extreme road rage' reactions. If you are using the driver aids as instructed, then if your car does 'slam on the brakes' you should be ready & able to override that as quickly as it happened, then you can use your ample torque to put distance back between you & whatever is behind you.

The problem with this is that you're training yourself to assume that everything is a false alarm, and reacting to mitigate with compensatory acceleration. As crazy as this might sound on the surface, it's likely better from a human factors standpoint for autopilot to fail to recognize threats than it is to frequently react to threats that don't exist. The former will keep people on their toes because they know it isn't omniscient, and the latter will make them complacent and possibly reactively accelerate when there really is something happening that they didn't see.

Boy who cried wolf, etc.
 
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........
My only regret is buying FSD when EAP would have sufficed for these past four years. If my cars were leases I would be pretty upset that I was told in 12/2016 that FSD would be worth something beyond EAP within a year.

I have regretted paying for FSD 3 times now. Not when I actually paid but after all of the lost promises and let downs.

I am with you that AP would/did/does suffice for the now $10k price tag of FSD. I have a new Model S on order and it will be the first one of the last 3 I have purchased that I did NOT add FSD to.

I will gladly pay whatever the monthly subscription price is if and when something compelling is actually released.

I think for so many of us daily commuters that Tesla could have gotten $10k back in 2016-2017 if even L3 limited to expressways had been available. I don’t even see that happening any time soon with the way things are going....
 
The problem with this is that you're training yourself to assume that everything is a false alarm, and reacting to mitigate with compensatory acceleration. As crazy as this might sound on the surface, it's likely better from a human factors standpoint for autopilot to fail to recognize threats than it is to frequently react to threats that don't exist. The former will keep people on their toes because they know it isn't omniscient, and the latter will make them complacent and possibly reactively accelerate when there really is something happening that they didn't see.

Boy who cried wolf, etc.
I'm not sure I agree. If you're paying attention then you'll know if the car should be taking any action and you'll either allow it to do so or you'll take over.
 
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