Oh look, yet ANOTHER FSD Beta (wheel cover curbing) Collision

[Daniel in SD]

To defend the guy it does seem like the blaring take over notice distracted him. You can see that he looks at the screen right before he hits the curb. Initiating a turn while telling the driver to take over seems like bad UI.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

At the distinct risk of getting pulled into a meta debate, I don't understand the complaints about the thread title, even if it's from someone who tends to be negative about FSD.

I mean, it was definitely a collision, with a curb, with FSD engaged, caused by human error. And it was obvious that the driver should have intervened (since they were driving the car!!!). End of story. It's good to have people very skeptical about FSD - in fact, it is the best thing for FSD - the more skeptical and critical people are, the more likely it is to ultimately be useful (even if that's very very unlikely in the near to medium term).

The more reminders we get that the human in the driver seat is driving the car when using FSD Beta, the better. For "some reason," it seems that some people can't comprehend that they're driving the car. It's right there in the name, Full Self Driving - you're Fully Driving the car yourSelf!

We know that FSD can run into curbs and other objects. Happens all the time. This is not news. Hopefully in a few years it will be different.

To defend the guy it does seem like the blaring take over notice distracted him.

I don't know. Sounds like a bad excuse to me. Because if he had had his hands on the wheel firmly applying torque (preferably torque is always applied in a direction opposite from the worst-case scenario), it would have immediately disengaged when it tried to turn (of course, he can't do this properly, because he doesn't have any wheel to steer the car, which is a problem). Again, if you steer the car when using FSD, at all times, disengagement is never a problem - it happens all the time, exactly as designed, especially during turns - and it's very good to practice this, disengaging all the time, since the "throttle" application continues (for some bizarre reason) and getting the muscle memory to disengage entirely is important to perfect. I try to maximize my number of disengagements, as it is the most relaxing way to drive (it's like not using FSD). The best disengagements are the ones accomplished by pushing up on the gear shift, when correctly anticipating imminent FSD Beta failure - no drama, and seamless!

And that warning sound does not require looking at the screen to know what it means. It means it has gone off the rails and is going to hit something, in my experience, or is just panicking, but in any case it requires immediate override in every instance (even if for no other reason than to stop the sound).

 

[Supcom]

To defend the guy it does seem like the blaring take over notice distracted him. You can see that he looks at the screen right before he hits the curb. Initiating a turn while telling the driver to take over seems like bad UI.

No matter what, the person behind the wheel's first responsibility is to drive the car. If the car starts screaming, one must first to take the wheel (yoke) and make sure the car is safe. After ensuring the car is moving in a safe trajectory, you can then deal with whatever the car is telling you.

The guy in the video failed to take control when he first heard the warning sounds. He should not be testing FSD beta software.

FSD beta, of course, had some error that caused it to bail out. Worse, when this occured, FSD beta should have applied the brakes and brought the car to a stop should the driver not have immediately taken charge. That's a fault of FSD beta.

I've had several cases where FSD beta bailed on me and have noticed that it attempts to continue driving until I turn the wheel to force it to cede control to me.

 

[Phlier]

All this conflict about defining "collision" reminds me of Bill Clinton trying to get a definition of "xxxual relations."

Regardless of your definition of what happened in the video, the fact remains that FSD shouldn't curb your wheels. Yet at the same time, the driver of said vehicle shouldn't have allowed FSD to curb his wheels, either.

This ain't release level software. It's beta. And if you don't treat it with the respect it deserves, curbed wheels will be the very least of your problems.

 

[Beast_Mode]

Man I'm not even a fan of FSD (at least not a fan of spending money on it) but this is a wild exaggeration.

 

[Daniel in SD]

He should not be testing FSD beta software.

Yeah, I already said that. But, if they hope to release the beta to everyone they need to fix UI issues like this. Maybe this guy had never experienced the red wheel of death? It's understandable that someone's first instinct is to look at the screen.
With regards to keeping your hands on the wheel at all times there seems to be a bit of a wink wink nudge nudge going on since you have Elon promoting videos of people violating that rule. Tesla even invites the worst offenders to corporate events!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

there seems to be a bit of a wink wink nudge nudge going on since you have Elon promoting videos of people violating that rule. Tesla even invites the worst offenders to corporate events!

Yes, this is terrible. I am of the opinion that those with the largest number of disengagements should be invited to the corporate events.

if they hope to release the beta to everyone they need to fix UI issues like this.

Hopefully they will not release the beta to everyone anytime soon. It would be terrifying and quite dangerous. Even those who have jumped through all the hoops are incredibly naive about all the ways in which things can go wrong, myself included.

 

[Bouba]

Perhaps such nonsense will no longer be allowed on Twitter...
A better headline would be...’Wheel Covers Save Man’s Rims’

 

[2101Guy]

... you're not wrong, ...

and there we have it. Plain and simple.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Wheel Covers Save Man’s Rims’

Category: New (other)

"Saved"

You can't make this stuff up (this is after the collision ("curb strike incident" ?), really redoubling his efforts to pay attention - he is ready to react instantly). This has to be intentional, right?:

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Maybe if he actually had a wheel, it would've taken him less time to grab it. He had to grab a joke after the car decided it could no longer drive on the well lit, newly painted, zero traffic road.

The wheel would get in the way of seeing the instrument cluster.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I mean, it was definitely a collision, with a curb, with FSD engaged, caused by human error

FSD wasn't engaged, but was engaged recently enough to be considered an FSD related accident.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

FSD wasn't engaged, but was engaged recently enough to be considered an FSD related accident.

It's true that the blue wheel had disappeared at the time of impact, but the "wheel" (useless yoke in this case) still appeared to be actuating. I don't have enough experience with the red wheel of death to know exactly how things behave in that scenario. Obviously the car can and does provide steering input without the blue wheel engaged, but this is likely a different behavior than that specific & common lane departure scenario.

It looks like the car will continue to steer even after deactivation, at least for a moment. In this case it knew it had zero confidence, sounded the alarm, set a course for the curb, deactivated the system (could have been caused by brake application but I don't think so since that should have stopped steering input), but did not recorrect course, and may have been actively steering until the driver corrected it even with FSD off (hard to tell - I didn't see the wheel re-centering on its own as you'd expect it to with no input, due to the caster).

 

[ShelJW]

At 0:03 seconds of the 36 second video, the display instructs the driver to take control of the wheel, far before the turn! (View the video, it's long before the corner that the FSD instructs him to take over)

Gee... he doesn't take control, car hits the curb... wonder what happened???

damn FSD!!!

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

At 0:03 seconds of the 36 second video, the display instructs the driver to take control of the wheel, far before the turn! (View the video, it's long before the corner that the FSD instructs him to take over)

Gee... he doesn't take control, car hits the curb... wonder what happened???

damn FSD!!!

UX issue and not following the rule of drive first.

I wish they'd teach driving like they teach people how to fly. A lot of the same concepts are true across both of them.

What I find kinda hilarious is you have don't have FSD on your Y, but you have FSD on your CyberTruck. It seems like you knew what to expect from FSD before we even knew what a rim destroying monster it would be.

The CyberTruck will just run them over.

 

[ShelJW]

What I find kinda hilarious is you have don't have FSD on your Y, but you have FSD on your CyberTruck. It seems like you knew what to expect from FSD before we even knew what a rim destroying monster it would be.

The CyberTruck will just run them over.

Actually, my 23 yo son pushed me to add FSD to the Cybertruck, with the logic that I can lock in the price when I order the truck, and I can alwsays delete it before taking delivery.

I honestly will probably be deleting FSD prior to taking delivery. I don't feel it's worth the added price.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

far before the turn! (View the video, it's long before the corner that the FSD instructs him to take over)

I am not seeing what you're seeing. The collision occurs no more than 2 seconds (in real time) after the initial warning with the red wheel, and I think it is closer to 1 second. That's not long before the corner. (EDIT: Ah, I see it now - sorry, there are two instances in the video of the collision. That blue warning is not a warning to take over (it can mean to apply slight turning force to the steering wheel though). It can say a variety of things, but not sure exactly what it said in this case - the blue screen flash didn't occur so I don't think it was a message about turning force, but I could be wrong. But it definitely was not a message to take over immediately.)

If it were a self-driving L3 system, you'd need much more time than that.

It's not an L3 system, so this behavior is "acceptable," though not great. That's why the driver has to be steering the car at all times when using FSD Beta!

It looks to me like the system might have gotten confused by the presence of rocks on the other side of the curb, before the sidewalk (there were essentially two curbs). It's not really an unusual case but it definitely could lead to confusion. But I'm not sure. The warning it gave with the Red Wheel Of Death is illegible in this video, but I assume it said take control immediately.

 

[father_of_6]

There's an important part missing from the video that would've prevented this incident. They call it "LiDAR"

 

[Firocity]

The driver also modified his steering wheel with a yoke. I wonder if FSD can account for after market modifications to the steering wheel. Could be part of the cause if the incident .

 

[2101Guy]

Actually, my 23 yo son pushed me to add FSD to the Cybertruck, with the logic that I can lock in the price when I order the truck, and I can alwsays delete it before taking delivery.

I honestly will probably be deleting FSD prior to taking delivery. I don't feel it's worth the added price.

By FAR? Most Tesla buyers opted to avoid the FSD option. Reports show As high as 90% of buyers opted to not fork over $12k to become beta software testers on public roads for teslas benefit