Older Teslas limited to 90kW Supercharging

[apacheguy]

I heard that the B packs have improved internal cooling as compared to the A packs. That is why they can supercharge at 120 vs. 90 kW. No idea about C and D pack differences.

I thought we had determined that it was the higher C rate cells that Panasonic started shipping early 2012? It seemed to make the most sense to me. If it were a cooling module, then it would likely be retrofittable even if it were contained in the pack itself. Reason is that Tesla can easily open the pack and replace cells at the sheet level if need be. Seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to get in there a replace a cooling module.

One easy way to test this theory would be to take an A pack and B pack side by side at a track. If the B pack can sustain higher power draws before being limited, then it very likely could be a cooling issue.

 

[JRP3]

Replacing the cell cooling system would entail a complete pack disassembly.

 

[apacheguy]

I see, so in that case the pack would be structurally different. Seems like an even more radical change to take on in the first couple months of production as opposed to just swapping in a higher spec cell.

I wonder how the cooling system would have changed. IIRC, 1/4 of the surface area of each cell is in contact with coolant. Cells are packed in groups of 4 with the perimeter encased in a coolant line. Seems to me that would be sufficient for whatever charge rate was desired. Might have to increase the flow, which would imply a more powerful pump, but those are definitely external to the pack. Still scratching my head as to what they would have done to make it structurally different.

 

[johnmodels]

Am I the only one frustrated with KW charge rate at Superchargers?

Hi All!

Been a MS owner for over 2 years and have about 38,000 miles on my s85. Due to my current travel situation, I find myself using superchargers more often. I notice that my MS will never charge faster then 88KW MAX no matter if anyone else it at the chager or if the "a/b" sides are being occupied. This has been witnessed at a few supercharger locations. (San Juan Capistrano, LAX) It only charges less than that rate is the other side of the pair is occupied. I have noticed that other cars charge greater than 100w, and the website says 120KW, and that is quite frustrating in that that accounts for about 20 extra minutes if I am going for a 90% charge and I am really low starting the charge.

I have a "A" pack. If I am seeing lower charge rates than "newer" MS'S is that because my pack is older?

The reason I am posing this is, is it worth asking the SC to "Fix" this? Can they? Will they? Am I alone with this? Has anyone else tried? What happened? I don't think I am splitting hairs with the 20-35KW charge difference as that is a substantial difference.

I appreciate, as always, your opinions and feedback!

This pic was taken with no cars being charged on either side of me and this was the best charge rate I experienced.

Thanks!

John

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Based on what's been posted here, the Revison A pack is limited to 90 kW maximum charge rate.

 

[napabill]

Welcome to the world of "Classic" MS's. It's the classic A pack.

 

[ecarfan]

I thought the prevailing theory was that A packs could not charge at grater than 90kW. Tesla has not stated that, if I recall correctly, but the data seems to support this.

If I have that wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

 

[Vger]

Tesla has stated it. There is a very long thread about those of us unfortunate enough to have A packs. Tesla claims, and some owners have corroborated, that the difference in overall charge time is "only" 5-10 minutes. Of course, in some situations (perhaps the OP's), this is non-trivial.

The only way to "fix" it is to get a newer battery. Tesla refuses to offer that now, while there is still a relative scarcity of cells, and so much demand for new cars. Eventually, in a few years, those of us "classic" owners will probably be able to join the 120kW party.

 

[NigelM]

Mod Note: threads merged.

 

[johnmodels]

Has anyone successfully gone to a SC which resulted in increased charging rates. They might not tell you they replaced the pack.

 

[Vger]

Has anyone successfully gone to a SC which resulted in increased charging rates. They might not tell you they replaced the pack.

A few people got warranty replacement packs that resulted in an upgrade from "A" to "B" or later. They DID verify an increased charging rate. Tesla is now careful NOT to do that anymore. They have enough remanufactured packs to continue to keep us "A" pack'ers where they think we belong. :wink:

 

[tomas]

Has anyone successfully gone to a SC which resulted in increased charging rates. They might not tell you they replaced the pack.

If they were to replace pack it would be due to massive failure and you would know. Vger correct, they replace a with a. A bunch of us corresponded and got commutment tesla would provide a battery upgrade program when battery supply constraints ease. Not soon. Hopefully there will be upgrade path when larger capacity battery arrives. Until then us A owners are stuck with 90kw chArging

 

[markb1]

A few people got warranty replacement packs that resulted in an upgrade from "A" to "B" or later. They DID verify an increased charging rate. Tesla is now careful NOT to do that anymore. They have enough remanufactured packs to continue to keep us "A" pack'ers where they think we belong. :wink:

That makes sense. They don't want to encourage people to induce pack failures, just so they can get B packs.

 

[mknox]

That makes sense. They don't want to encourage people to induce pack failures, just so they can get B packs.

I think that's fair except for folks like me who got a car with an A-pack in March 2013 while B-packs were being provided to others I know months before that.

 

[gaswalla]

none of this is fair, it is what it is... I think this stuff is minor (and will definitely be remedied some day in the distant future) compared to issues like taking delivery of the P85+ and then finding out that the D was just released, or taking delivery recently and getting a car without the auto-pilot hardware. (I have an A pack, limited to 87kw, and it stinks)

 

[tomas]

LET'S PLEASE NOT START THE CYCLE OF REITERATING THIS WHOLE THREAD!!!

An early S owner just noticed this issue now... posted, and Nigel merged to this thread... unintentionally waking the sleeping beast. A few of us have tried to answer the new poster's specific questions... but this could easily turn into a rehash of the prior 158 pages.

 

[apacheguy]

Hey 90 kW club!

Anyone else notice poorer SpC performance under 6.x? My taper seems to begin somewhere in the low 30%'s and then there's been this odd knee in the curve between 35%-60%. See below a comparison of my taper curve under various FW versions. Outside temps have always been fairly moderate (i.e. ~50-75 F) for all sessions displayed.

If 90 kW SpC worked as advertised each and every time then I don't think it would be as big of a deal. But since we already start out at a disadvantage anything else that further impacts the charge rate is really difficult to cope with.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

5.9 looks pretty nice compared to the rest.
was that due to higher suspension?:tongue:
or wait was that the low re-enabled version

I still believe that Tesla should grab all the A packs and use them for SC grid storage. give out a 'standardized' pack to the early adopters that didn't get one.
please

 

[ken830]

I think that's fair except for folks like me who got a car with an A-pack in March 2013 while B-packs were being provided to others I know months before that.

Agreed. And my April 2013 car's A-pack failed last month unexpectedly during a road trip and I sort of got stranded. But Tesla still refused to replaced it. I have been driving around on a "loaner" B battery pack for the last 1+ month.

 

[Bugeater]

5.9 looks pretty nice compared to the rest.
was that due to higher suspension?:tongue:
or wait was that the low re-enabled version

I still believe that Tesla should grab all the A packs and use them for SC grid storage. give out a 'standardized' pack to the early adopters that didn't get one.
please

No! Please don't replace my A pack until there is a new larger capacity pack available for us for a very cheap price!