Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[Bytor]

Sorry for the long post...

I'm a huge believer in financial fitness. Too many times I see people getting trapped in the hedonistic treadmill to keep up with what society deems as success. Sharing a bit of my purchase thought-process if it helps:

• Originally family of 2, with a wife that wanted to purchase an SUV
• I personally was looking at "upgrading our car" which was model year 2013 purchased in 2012 back in 2015 in line with a "promotion" from work (treat myself with an expensive toy)
• Looked at the S3 (too small for my wife as we were planning to start a family), A3-Etron (found out it didn't start in -25C, no battery temp management system and only went 30km max on Elec. only). Our commute (dual income same work location) was 8km each way...
• Itching to spend money, but heard about the Model 3 reveal and seemed interesting. Wife still wanted an SUV to drive future kids future friends, waiting for XC60 refresh to see what pricing would be like or XC40. X1 maybe, but X3 was too expensive and I grew up in small sedans (3 series, accord -tinier than today's civic!), where we took road trips across NA with my grand parents as well; no issues, not buying into the SUV marketing
• More I learnt about EVs the more I was able to convince myself and wife that EV was the future, looked at i3 (expensive and range was not enough, would need an ICE backup even though 90% of driving was covered -> car2go for day trips not convenient enough)
• Made up mind and reserved in early 2017, estimating that I would need to save $~75k to pay in cash, started increasing additional cash reserves that I'd been building since 2015
• Kid born while waiting thinking of the trade offs between dropping $75k on a car vs. kid's future education (private school debate with wife). Decide that private school system supports inequality, and "justify" that donation to Telsa would be a better use of money.
• Calculate gas savings based on premium fuel and decide that I can use savings to upgrade home panel to 200A also can be used for marketing house as "future ready", $3k invstement would be recovered in first year (note gas savings are after-tax! for us that's ~8% ongoing return so decide to keep the car for 8 years min to "feel good about the decision financially")
• Alternate permutations, of AWD, SR, LR to figure out if we really should be spending so much on a car. Decide to go from 2 cars to 1 car to running costs low, and "bet the farm on EV reliability", AWD not required as we used to drive a RWD 3 series in winter + FWD hatch and know that winter tires are the most critical element to winter driving
• Settle on LR RWD with no options as the others are upgradable in the future via software and an $80k is a little extravagant in our minds even for dual high-income earners (not science more just personal opinion).
• Get the news that the car is coming early to Canada, struggle again to decide between private school or the model 3, as I'm more and more not a fan of working (FIRE mindset). Also look at opportunity cost of dumping it into the market ($75k in 10 years could be $122k or alternatively at 4% dividends, +$250 per month for the foreseeable future), but got to live a little
• Resolve that we will need at least 1 car and that we could offset ~$200 per month in gas spending also insurance savings from 2 to 1 consolidation. Hit the Order button.
• Receive call, write huge bank draft, take car
• Love car (step change in mobility, comfort and features), wife would not go back, more than enough room for baby + stuff + grandparents
• Read/learn more and realize that our Model 3 could be my kid's first car in 15 years given reliability, happy with purchase (BMW was 12 years old so not a stranger to keeping things for a while...), hope by then there will be lots of cheap & good EVs to choose from for ourselves.

Wow. Just wow! Thanks for sharing. It was nIce to read about your journey-totally get it! I often catch myself by asking what else could I do with 75k. My other vehicle was a polluting diesel Audi...took the buyout and was hoping to do some good for the environment as a pay back for the wrongs Audi did bit as u said financial fitness is a measure everyone should contemplate. Still looking around at other vehicles but my gut keeps going back to the M3!

 

[dj_gon]

Sorry for the long post...

I'm a huge believer in financial fitness. Too many times I see people getting trapped in the hedonistic treadmill to keep up with what society deems as success. Sharing a bit of my purchase thought-process if it helps:

• Originally family of 2, with a wife that wanted to purchase an SUV
• I personally was looking at "upgrading our car" which was model year 2013 purchased in 2012 back in 2015 in line with a "promotion" from work (treat myself with an expensive toy)
• Looked at the S3 (too small for my wife as we were planning to start a family), A3-Etron (found out it didn't start in -25C, no battery temp management system and only went 30km max on Elec. only). Our commute (dual income same work location) was 8km each way...
• Itching to spend money, but heard about the Model 3 reveal and seemed interesting. Wife still wanted an SUV to drive future kids future friends, waiting for XC60 refresh to see what pricing would be like or XC40. X1 maybe, but X3 was too expensive and I grew up in small sedans (3 series, accord -tinier than today's civic!), where we took road trips across NA with my grand parents as well; no issues, not buying into the SUV marketing
• More I learnt about EVs the more I was able to convince myself and wife that EV was the future, looked at i3 (expensive and range was not enough, would need an ICE backup even though 90% of driving was covered -> car2go for day trips not convenient enough)
• Made up mind and reserved in early 2017, estimating that I would need to save $~75k to pay in cash, started increasing additional cash reserves that I'd been building since 2015
• Kid born while waiting thinking of the trade offs between dropping $75k on a car vs. kid's future education (private school debate with wife). Decide that private school system supports inequality, and "justify" that donation to Telsa would be a better use of money.
• Calculate gas savings based on premium fuel and decide that I can use savings to upgrade home panel to 200A also can be used for marketing house as "future ready", $3k invstement would be recovered in first year (note gas savings are after-tax! for us that's ~8% ongoing return so decide to keep the car for 8 years min to "feel good about the decision financially")
• Alternate permutations, of AWD, SR, LR to figure out if we really should be spending so much on a car. Decide to go from 2 cars to 1 car to running costs low, and "bet the farm on EV reliability", AWD not required as we used to drive a RWD 3 series in winter + FWD hatch and know that winter tires are the most critical element to winter driving
• Settle on LR RWD with no options as the others are upgradable in the future via software and an $80k is a little extravagant in our minds even for dual high-income earners (not science more just personal opinion).
• Get the news that the car is coming early to Canada, struggle again to decide between private school or the model 3, as I'm more and more not a fan of working (FIRE mindset). Also look at opportunity cost of dumping it into the market ($75k in 10 years could be $122k or alternatively at 4% dividends, +$250 per month for the foreseeable future), but got to live a little
• Resolve that we will need at least 1 car and that we could offset ~$200 per month in gas spending also insurance savings from 2 to 1 consolidation. Hit the Order button.
• Receive call, write huge bank draft, take car
• Love car (step change in mobility, comfort and features), wife would not go back, more than enough room for baby + stuff + grandparents
• Read/learn more and realize that our Model 3 could be my kid's first car in 15 years given reliability, happy with purchase (BMW was 12 years old so not a stranger to keeping things for a while...), hope by then there will be lots of cheap & good EVs to choose from for ourselves.

Very informative post! I'm in a similar situation. I was contemplating on this whole EV thing since the introduction of the model S (and before kids) but it was just so unaffordable. I just saw a blue model 3 (the colour I've ordered and cancelled) today close to my office... sigh, I'm starting to regret on cancelling the order but anyways congrats on the new car! You've made the right choice!

 

[Falcon3]

What are typical times for people to receive their rebate after submitting the application? Curious to know if anyone took deliver after the 11th and applied for the rebate..

spoke to Ministry of Finance yesterday, they are a month behind and are just processing May folks now so probably sometime in August or September is my guest.

 

[Tertulian]

I Believe everyone should call the ombudsman office. It's a very quick phone call with no on hold wait time. You can explain your predicament and how you believe the EHVIP cancellation towards tesla being treated differently than dealerships is unfair.

Phone: 1-800-263-1830
Outside Ontario: 416-586-3300

Fax: 416-586-3485
TTY (Teletypewriter): 1-866-411-4211
E-mail: [email protected]

Done.

Fingers crossed. This is our last shot for Ontario EHVIP.

After this the only option will be to cancel and wait and see if the feds do something.

 

[NoBeard]

After this the only option will be to cancel and wait and see if the feds do something.

As I may have opined in the past...
Most of the rest of the country has been waiting a very long time.
If the great shirtless selfie boy cared a whit about anything environmental he wouldn't have bought us a bitumen pipeline.
He cared about election reform, right.

 

[felixculpas]

Why 1.6% matters.

 

[NoBeard]

great link @felixculpas
thanks,
Sad that sooooo many countries have done such simple things as eliminating their HST equivalent on EVs.
It's so sad to be in a country that talks talks talks but isn't able to make the first step in the walk.
But we do take amazing selfies.

 

[sitter_k]

Done.

Fingers crossed. This is our last shot for Ontario EHVIP.

After this the only option will be to cancel and wait and see if the feds do something.

I'm not sure how much power the ombudsman has but they are taking this seriously.

 

[Amandeep]

Hi all

Would like to share my today's call with Tesla rep in Utah, US.

I was trying to call them for last week or so. Couldn't reach them after being on hold for 2 hrs, 1.5 hrs, etc. Told after being on hold for about an hour, they answered

Following is our discussion -

1. She said i can cancel my reservation and full monies 4,200.00 will be refunded (3,200 on credit card in 21 days - 7 days for sending internal email & 14 days for proceeding the payment and 1,000 by cheque in about 30-60 days). She also confirmed that i can cancel my reservation and still expect to hold spot for future order as i will have to start all over again (let's say i want to re-order M3 next year). She said she will sent me email and once i reply in affirmative, only than it will be cancelled. Her sending email to me, doesn't activates cancellation. She sent that email.

2. She confirmed that I can cancel FSD & add White interiors in 'Edit Design' section if those are the changes i want. If Edit design button doesn't works, than she offered to send an email. Once i reply to that email, only than changes will be incorporated. She sent this email as well.

3. She confirmed that if i do design changes, than my order date WILL NOT change. she gave personal guarantee although she didn't sent confirmation on email (she said she can't). She offered to put a not on my profile that if i plan to change my M3 LR AWD than i will still have FREE internet connectivity as i had placed order on 30th June (before 1st July cut off). She said if i do any design change, my delivery date will most likely change but not my order date.

4. She was of the view that my VIN won't be generated for another 4-5 weeks (most likely 1st week of sept), as right now they are prioritizing performance model & than RWD model and my AWD will come after that. She was off the view that i should have 2-3 weeks to make my mind as my order date of 30th June means my delivery date is mid sept - mid nov (as shown on website). She also said that these are her views based on how things are going, but VIN can be generated anytime so i should wait for long - If i have made my mind for design change, she suggested i should do it now.

5. Test drive - Couldn't confirm when we will have car in Toronto or Oakville for test drive.

It was nice to talk to someone on the phone after trying for more than a week. She seemed to be aware of EV rebate cancellation in Ontario and was of the view that Tesla is in touch with government (couldn't confirm anything) regarding rebate issue. She also couldn't confirm if Tesla will be able to help us in anyways, had nothing to say about that. She agreed that loosing 14,000.00 makes big difference for this purchase.

Now, i have two emails from her. Will watch for another week or two to see if anything happens before i make my mind to keep the order or revise it.

Thanks for reading (i knows its a long message) and all the best for future.

 

[champion1955]

The Ombudsman contacted me just now - took down the details of my complaint and said they were planning to speak with the MTO today. Said they would have an answer for me by EOW.

They specifically asked if I wanted a refund of my deposit or the rebate for my car once received. Wonder what everyone else was saying.

They called me too today. Finally felt like someone outside this forum cared. Anyway, I told him that I wanted the rebate. Hands down!

 

[Tertulian]

I'm not sure how much power the ombudsman has but they are taking this seriously.

Never said it was much of a hope - just a fool’s hope.

Anyhow, I expect after the update we get from the Ombudsman’s office by end of week I’ll be cancelling.

 

[jkirkwood001]

Yes you can edit your responses when you go back in


Totally awesome, I just wanted to get all the info in one place make changes as you see fit. I am happy to see that it is being used and helpful.

.

Teamwork!

 

[deltav]

I Believe everyone should call the ombudsman office. It's a very quick phone call with no on hold wait time. You can explain your predicament and how you believe the EHVIP cancellation towards tesla being treated differently than dealerships is unfair.

Phone: 1-800-263-1830
Outside Ontario: 416-586-3300

Fax: 416-586-3485
TTY (Teletypewriter): 1-866-411-4211
E-mail: [email protected]

I made the complaint online. Here's to hoping something happening, someway and somehow, for Tesla orders to go through for rebates.

If not, I will cancel

 

[don27ont]

I Believe everyone should call the ombudsman office. It's a very quick phone call with no on hold wait time. You can explain your predicament and how you believe the EHVIP cancellation towards tesla being treated differently than dealerships is unfair.

Phone: 1-800-263-1830
Outside Ontario: 416-586-3300

Fax: 416-586-3485
TTY (Teletypewriter): 1-866-411-4211
E-mail: [email protected]

Done!

 

[jkirkwood001]

I made the complaint online. Here's to hoping something happening, someway and somehow, for Tesla orders to go through for rebates.

If not, I will cancel

Please add your decision to the EVHIP Rebate Cancellation Poll we're running - it may contribute to influencing politicians to effect policy change.

 

[jkirkwood001]

If you haven't added your opinion to the EVHIP Rebate Cancellation Poll, please do (before reading further!). It may influence EV policy.

If you have provided your opinion, here's the summary so far:

Based on 62 votes, because of the Ford government's cancellation of the EVHIP program:

• 42% have cancelled - or will likely cancel - their plan to buy an EV
• 65% are unsure how to proceed (since Tesla is the only manufacturer who's eligibility was "unfairly" shortened)

 

[Velianou]

Mckenna was just on CBC radio this morning.

Questions were asked regarding Ontario and no carbon emissions program.

Sept 1st is deadline for provinces to institute a carbon reduction plan that is in line with the Federal Government.

If Ontario doesn't have a plan then the federal government will impose one federally. Monies raised through this plan will be giving back to Ontario residents. She eluded to incentives for businesses and residents. innovation for businesses. I believe that we will have a federal incentive program that will be part of our yearly tax returns. (Like the US does). No dollar value mentioned. I will cancel and wait for a federal incentive program, if nothing occurs with the EHVIP. This may be implemented prior to Dec 31st for the current tax year.

 

[sitter_k]

Mckenna was just on CBC radio this morning.

Questions were asked regarding Ontario and no carbon emissions program.

Sept 1st is deadline for provinces to institute a carbon reduction plan that is in line with the Federal Government.

If Ontario doesn't have a plan then the federal government will impose one federally. Monies raised through this plan will be giving back to Ontario residents. She eluded to incentives for businesses and residents. innovation for businesses. I believe that we will have a federal incentive program that will be part of our yearly tax returns. (Like the US does). No dollar value mentioned. I will cancel and wait for a federal incentive program, if nothing occurs with the EHVIP. This may be implemented prior to Dec 31st for the current tax year.

If it is implemented for the current tax year any ev deduction or program should apply for all of 2018 you'd think. Also could you just defer delivery or do you go to the back of the line anyways?

 

[Jimmytofu]

How many of you are planning to cancel? I received a call from the Ombudsman.... they are working on it. Also, if I can get an estimate on number of consumers in this predicament, I’m going to see if we can go the judiciary review (for a class action). I’ll have more info on that tomorrow.

In the meantime it will be helpful to know how many of you are sitting the fence and even if you have got the car, you would otherwise have qualified?

I also received a call from the Ombudsman. I ordered on June 29th. Still awaiting a VIN. I'm planning on buying the car but would join a class action if there is a strong enough case. i'm not sure we would have a case though based off what i've been reading. looks like the Government can do as they please in this case.

 

[felixculpas]

Green Ontario Turns An Ugly Shade Of Brown