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Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

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That comment about millionaires really ticked me off. It shows how much he knows when he said $16K rebates and $100,000 cars. Didn't he not know that the Liberal cancelled the S and X ???

He 100% knows....he is stretching the truth to rile his base against the 'richie riches' and make himself seem like he is for the people.

Saying 100k cars and 16k rebate sounds worse than 75k car and 14k rebate....also totally ignored that fact that a fully loaded i3 probably costs about as much as a model 3 RWD...and a fully loaded bolt is about 10k less than a base model 3....

So if you buy a loaded bolt/i3 you are middle class and one of the people, if you spend 10k more and get a base model 3 you are a millionaire....
 
Genuine question here, but can't the many negative statements Doug Ford has said on video about Tesla and only Tesla be used as proof that he has a grudge against them as a company and can be seen as him inflicting his personal bias on matters of policy?

One would think so. Especially claiming all the stuff about the rebates are for millionaires buying $100,000 cars and that the rebate is $16,000....and on and on.

Showing there was a grudge might be useful in a criminal trial but probably not here. However, it might further show the degree and consistency of "targeted exclusion". Also, don't forget the Minister of Transportation's comments in the legislature - "On July 11 we announced that until September 10, all dealers and anyone who had purchased a vehicle or had a vehicle on order, as long as it was plated and delivered by September 10, other than Tesla - they would receive their rebate.

Thank you, John Yakabuski.

If Tesla can provide overwhelming evidence to support their targeted exclusion, I think the courts would be compelled to allow them every consideration under the law. I recognize there are sometimes even obscure precedents that make your case fail. If that happens, I'm sure Tesla will examine it very carefully and proceed with an appeal as may be necessary. Could be a long ride...
 
Dude, you have to read the fine print in the website, which was pretty clear. Looking at things only at the surface and not digging into the details while making a 70k purchase is 1,000,000% buyer beware. No one will touch a class action lawsuit against Tesla. Especially since they were offering a refund. To get a class action you have to show damages. They offer a full refund when they didn't have to. So what are the damages? That you dont have the car? That wont fly....

Also, in the calculator (and still today) it factors in some cost savings vs a gas car based on some assumptions about driving distance per year and price per litre....so are you saying that you also have a right to sue them if that calculation doesn't reflect your exact situation (despite the fact the fine print clearly states the assumptions)?

I get it that losing the rebate sucks and make us all emotional, but think rationally about what you are suggesting and take at least some ownership of your decisions. You have no real damages if they offer a rebate.

Thanks, that makes sense. I knew I was reaching lol..

I feel like Tesla should offer me something though. Still going through with the purchase. Thoughts?
 
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They are, they're fighting to get orders placed and delivered by Sept. 10th to be included in the phase out period with the lawsuit or possibly extend the phase out period. I'm sure their customers who had to cancel due to not being millionaires; people who tightened their belts to buy the car they want would appreciate this effort. Not to mention all the guys who are trying to convince their wife to take the plunge into EVs.
 
Also true. This TMC community is awesome.

Yeh it can be real welcoming if you disagree with the group...this is no different then Adaptable or whatever his name is
 

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Thanks, that makes sense. I knew I was reaching lol..

I feel like Tesla should offer me something though. Still going through with the purchase. Thoughts?

They will offer you a model 3 :)

Some folks have suggested free EAP or something, but that's not likely as it wouldn't be fair to people who paid for those features (though I would gladly accept it if it was offered :) )

They are a business and I think right now the demand is so high for the car they aren't really losing sales because of Ontario losing rebates. For sure people have cancelled, but there's a long lineup of folks waiting, and let's not forget they aren't even delivering outside of US and Canada yet.
 
They will offer you a model 3 :)

Some folks have suggested free EAP or something, but that's not likely as it wouldn't be fair to people who paid for those features (though I would gladly accept it if it was offered :) )

They are a business and I think right now the demand is so high for the car they aren't really losing sales because of Ontario losing rebates. For sure people have cancelled, but there's a long lineup of folks waiting, and let's not forget they aren't even delivering outside of US and Canada yet.

I don’t think they owe us anything, like people have said it’s out of their control, I don’t believe they communicated well through situation but they don’t owe us anything in return.

Would just be nice to receive a refund in a timely manner and move on with life. Their refund policy is ridiculous, and I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks them offering a refund at all is them being generous.
 
The other common misconception I’ve seen posted here is that Tesla shipped many Model 3’s in May/June to Canada to try and help Canadians before the election.

That is blatantly false, they were trying to avoid hitting the 200,000 mark in the USA which would trigger the end of the incentive there. This has been stated various times on this site and others including electrek.

They weren’t doing us a favor, they were trying to game the system so they could sell more cars at a reduced price and increased profit for them. I don’t blame them at all for doing that, it’s part of business and if a system is setup a certain way you are within your right to maximize your benefits.

But don’t act like they were sending cars to Canada out of the goodness in their hearts to battle that Evil Doug Ford
 
Would just be nice to receive a refund in a timely manner and move on with life. Their refund policy is ridiculous, and I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks them offering a refund at all is them being generous.

Your first post wasn't referencing a misconception but you are now painting it as such by virtue of your last message leading off with "the other misconception". That's quite a stretch.

You can strongly disagree all you want but the fact remains that a contract was entered into and Tesla had every legal right to keep your money. So it IS generous of Tesla to not only offer refunds but to do so over a very long period of time and at some pain incurred. That's getting to be a rare thing these days so I applaud their efforts. Picture them run by Doug Ford. Maybe that puts it in perspective.

If this was a different mfg I'm not sure your money would have been so easily refunded, if at all after 30 days.

Tesla is working very hard to get where they are and against all the negativity and people (shorts) and companies and (sponsored) governments that would like to take them down - yet still try to treat people extremely well overall despite some missteps.

They have many shortcomings but are a 15 year old company in one of the most competitive environments on the planet. You have the luxury of comparing them to companies that have been around since the dawn of the automobile yet who still make huge blunders *cough* VW Group. They haven't had 100 years to amass huge amounts of cash flow. Their employee pool is tapped by Apple who can afford to pay them 1.5x's more on average. They and Ford are the only 2 to not require a bail-out.

They weren’t doing us a favor, they were trying to game the system so they could sell more cars at a reduced price and increased profit for them.

Game the system? That's an opinion but not a fact. On one had you say that and the other you say they were trying to avoid hitting the 200k mark. So which is it?

You are welcome to your opinion and if that's one of disappointment, so be it but the reasoning you are putting forth to support it is a little flawed IMHO. Tesla isn't the bad guy here and they are doing an admirable job working through a very tough situation instead of walking away from it. IF you don't see it that way, there's lots of choice in the marketplace. Let you pocketbook do your talking.

Part of their mission statement:

Tesla was founded in 2003 by a group of engineers who wanted to prove that people didn’t need to compromise to drive electric – that electric vehicles can be better, quicker and more fun to drive than gasoline cars. Today, Tesla builds not only all-electric vehicles but also infinitely scalable clean energy generation and storage products. Tesla believes the faster the world stops relying on fossil fuels and moves towards a zero-emission future, the better.
 
Your first post wasn't referencing a misconception but you are now painting it as such by virtue of your last message leading off with "the other misconception". That's quite a stretch.

You can strongly disagree all you want but the fact remains that a contract was entered into and Tesla had every legal right to keep your money. So it IS generous of Tesla to not only offer refunds but to do so over a very long period of time and at some pain incurred. That's getting to be a rare thing these days so I applaud their efforts. Picture them run by Doug Ford. Maybe that puts it in perspective.

If this was a different mfg I'm not sure your money would have been so easily refunded, if at all after 30 days.

Tesla is working very hard to get where they are and against all the negativity and people (shorts) and companies and (sponsored) governments that would like to take them down - yet still try to treat people extremely well overall despite some missteps.

They have many shortcomings but are a 15 year old company in one of the most competitive environments on the planet. You have the luxury of comparing them to companies that have been around since the dawn of the automobile yet who still make huge blunders *cough* VW Group. They haven't had 100 years to amass huge amounts of cash flow. Their employee pool is tapped by Apple who can afford to pay them 1.5x's more on average. They and Ford are the only 2 to not require a bail-out.



Game the system? That's an opinion but not a fact. On one had you say that and the other you say they were trying to avoid hitting the 200k mark. So which is it?

You are welcome to your opinion and if that's one of disappointment, so be it but the reasoning you are putting forth to support it is a little flawed IMHO. Tesla isn't the bad guy here and they are doing an admirable job working through a very tough situation instead of walking away from it. IF you don't see it that way, there's lots of choice in the marketplace. Let you pocketbook do your talking.

Part of their mission statement:

Tesla was founded in 2003 by a group of engineers who wanted to prove that people didn’t need to compromise to drive electric – that electric vehicles can be better, quicker and more fun to drive than gasoline cars. Today, Tesla builds not only all-electric vehicles but also infinitely scalable clean energy generation and storage products. Tesla believes the faster the world stops relying on fossil fuels and moves towards a zero-emission future, the better.

Do you have to buy the kool-aid online or do they sell it at Yorkdale as well?
 

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The other common misconception I’ve seen posted here is that Tesla shipped many Model 3’s in May/June to Canada to try and help Canadians before the election.

That is blatantly false, they were trying to avoid hitting the 200,000 mark in the USA which would trigger the end of the incentive there. This has been stated various times on this site and others including electrek.

They weren’t doing us a favor, they were trying to game the system so they could sell more cars at a reduced price and increased profit for them. I don’t blame them at all for doing that, it’s part of business and if a system is setup a certain way you are within your right to maximize your benefits.

But don’t act like they were sending cars to Canada out of the goodness in their hearts to battle that Evil Doug Ford

It's both, I'd challenge you to prove otherwise. There's plenty of places they could have shipped those cars other than Ontario. Did you see the video of the lines in Australia a couple days back for ppl to spend a couple minutes with a showroom M3?
 
It's both, I'd challenge you to prove otherwise. There's plenty of places they could have shipped those cars other than Ontario. Did you see the video of the lines in Australia a couple days back for ppl to spend a couple minutes with a showroom M3?

They hadn’t opened sales to any other country then Canada. It’s not some crazy conspiracy theory I came up with, it’s plastered all over this site and many others. And again I understand why they did it.

So in going with the theory that they “knew” that rebate was coming to an end, why did they continue to advertise the rebate on the website. Why did the sales agents at both Yorkdale and Oakville say that I would be eligible to get them (2nd week of June)

I agree it’s an amazing car and amazing engineering. I spent nearly an hour in a showroom in Dallas admiring one. And would have loved to have one. Just not impressed at all by the business practices of the company.
 
They hadn’t opened sales to any other country then Canada. It’s not some crazy conspiracy theory I came up with, it’s plastered all over this site and many others. And again I understand why they did it.

So in going with the theory that they “knew” that rebate was coming to an end, why did they continue to advertise the rebate on the website. Why did the sales agents at both Yorkdale and Oakville say that I would be eligible to get them (2nd week of June)

I agree it’s an amazing car and amazing engineering. I spent nearly an hour in a showroom in Dallas admiring one. And would have loved to have one. Just not impressed at all by the business practices of the company.

and what's involved in opening sales somewhere lol?
 
and what's involved in opening sales somewhere lol?

I know people are hating on abrew right now, but tesla has logistical issues getting cars to Canada right now, nevermind shipping to EU, China, Australia, etc....they are in no way ready to start a worldwide rollout. It's way more involved than just flipping a switch on a website and allowing people to order. They have to get the cars to that country, and right now getting them delivered on the same land mass is proving to be a challenge.

Are they prioritizing shipping to the US to maximize their tax credits? For sure, their shipping costs are lower, there are no import/export fees, their brand is strongest in the US...The reasons why Canada is playing second fiddle are pretty apparent. I'm just glad it is only US and Canada getting deliveries now.

Once the worldwide flood gates open the lead times will go up like crazy. I don't even want to know what the lead time on a SR will be once they start offering them worldwide and it's a fresh order with no reservation.
 
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Yeh it can be real welcoming if you disagree with the group...this is no different then Adaptable or whatever his name is

Lol! It isn't personal Abrew. And I'd like to point out that I've never made any condescending remarks to you or anyone! But if I'm of a different opinion, well then I quietly express it using the disagree button. I mean, that's what it's there for? N'est-ce pas?

Anyway, congrats on your Ford Fusion. And I mean that honestly. While it may not be the car you originally sought, every additional EV on the road is a win for sustainability. And for that, I congratulate you on your purchase!
 
They hadn’t opened sales to any other country then Canada. It’s not some crazy conspiracy theory I came up with, it’s plastered all over this site and many others. And again I understand why they did it.

So in going with the theory that they “knew” that rebate was coming to an end, why did they continue to advertise the rebate on the website. Why did the sales agents at both Yorkdale and Oakville say that I would be eligible to get them (2nd week of June)

I agree it’s an amazing car and amazing engineering. I spent nearly an hour in a showroom in Dallas admiring one. And would have loved to have one. Just not impressed at all by the business practices of the company.

Just because the same information is all over the internet, doesn't make it right. Take for example all the recent chatter about low carb diets shortening lifespan. Completely false yet highly propagated.

Human behavior being what it is, we tend to develop biases and a desire to support our own views and choices. I try to stay aware of all sides of a topic, parsing out the truth to the best of my abilities. I'm very much aware of confirmation bias and try to not be affected. To think I'm the one drinking the cool-aid shows your lack of understanding. I was probably the first person to cancel my M3 order.

You are engaged in the rationalization of your decisions. Sorry the world's not perfect for you.
 
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I think some macro perspective is in need here Abrews.

You're comparing a new business model with mass roll out of a high demand product (Model 3) to a 100+ year old established company with experienced staff (Ford). Of course the old guard will have the delivery experience maximized... they sell how many Ford Fusion Energi cars in a month? Five?

Tesla just unloaded thousands within two weeks back in June. It is what it is - quality vs quantity. When orders do match supply and Tesla's staff aren't overloaded with phone calls every minute of the day. The delivery experience will improve.

Was my delivery experience glitzy like some of the more famous YouTubers? - No. Did I care? No, because I was getting a fabulous car that aligns to my values.

At the end of the day, do what makes you happy. Complaining about X and Ys customer service will help them improve, but you have to let them know - not just a forum of "kool aid" drinkers.
 
I think some macro perspective is in need here Abrews.

You're comparing a new business model with mass roll out of a high demand product (Model 3) to a 100+ year old established company with experienced staff (Ford). Of course the old guard will have the delivery experience maximized... they sell how many Ford Fusion Energi cars in a month? Five?

Tesla just unloaded thousands within two weeks back in June. It is what it is - quality vs quantity. When orders do match supply and Tesla's staff aren't overloaded with phone calls every minute of the day. The delivery experience will improve.

Was my delivery experience glitzy like some of the more famous YouTubers? - No. Did I care? No, because I was getting a fabulous car that aligns to my values.

At the end of the day, do what makes you happy. Complaining about X and Ys customer service will help them improve, but you have to let them know - not just a forum of "kool aid" drinkers.

I had a lady who handed me the keys, said "Good?" and left lol.