Most on here are of the opinion that there isn't, best bet at any chance might be to appeal to Elon himself through Twitter or maybe contact electrek and see if they could reach out? The problem at this point would likely finding a hundred or so cars in what might be the time remaining? Nothing is certain until it is, but it would be wise to not get too hopeful?
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Well as soon as MTO had announced the transition on its website on July 11 Tesla quickly updated theirs and here we are still waiting for MTO to update the site Electric vehicles incentive program at least they can put a wording around the transition is under review or something...Chrysler Pacifica Hyrbid is still advertising 14K off as well. I think this proves Tesla’s prompt communication compared to MTO and other manufacturers responses.
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First of all, let's wait and see how this plays out. You may very well be rendering an accurate portrayal of how events will unfold but what if Ford just cancels the program outright as of Friday? I doubt he would stoop that low but if he did you might then be thanking your lucky stars.
IIRC, shortly after this thread started, I had commented that participation in government programs shouldn't be akin to playing roulette in a gambling casino. Unfortunately, that's what many of us have experienced. Even when there is a change of elected parties, typically the transition of programs is done much more fairly and without all the BS orchestrated bravado we are being subject to. However, that's what we have to work with so you just have to make decisions that work best for you and move onward and upward.
I think the greatest hope would be for a federal program announcement sometime later this year but no guarantees there. I have but ONE news source reference that it will be so - but this is something they've brandied about for some time so hard to say for sure.
I try to remain objective when I say Tesla would like to do something for us. The auto industry is extremely cut-throat and they aren't exactly in the black. They aren't entirely alone though. Ford Motor Company is also in the news of late and facing their own financial issues. Tesla simply isn't in a position to do much more than they already have which some would argue is a lot more than any of the big 5 would have done. They really can't say or do much anyway till this is completely over from a legal perspective as they can't be jeopardizing any future outcomes or further actions. They are playing this as they need to and also waiting to see what the government's response is, just like we are.
Despite some logistics and communications issues, they have treated their customers with respect. They don't coddle their customers like the big 5 do who really really need to be invested in their customer service just to get you to buy in to their product and services. The big 5 don't do that out of the goodness of their hearts. They know they need to, period.
When you examine how entrenched the PC's are in their thinking and mandate, I don't see them playing nice here at all so little hope to be had there. As we've witnessed, the courts have no jurisdiction on government policy generally unless it can be proven (as was the case here) there was discrimination or some other unlawful aspect to the policy.
I say all this having cancelled myself. For me, it was simply a risk/reward decision and I'm in a position to be able to look at this in a longer term perspective so can afford to be patient and see if there's an opportune time to dive back in. Despite all the FUD that's out there, it only makes sense to me that Tesla is the choice for now and the foreseeable future. I'm sold purely on their battery technology and charging infrastructure. For others it will take more and for still others it will take acts of godliness
I missed the small fee part. Curious as wellUmmm, I was with you until the 'small fee' comment....why exactly?
Are you also the same dude who buys out all the Nintendo mini consoles and tries to sell them at 150% markup?
I missed why anyone would risk doing this period, let alone pay some sort of premium for the privilege. I presume he's feeling that since you would then have the "rare" opportunity to be included in a rebate program that might never be available again or at least at this level, you would be willing to pay for that.
OK. I'll do it but you have to cover the incentive if I don't qualify. How's that
OK. I'll do it but you have to cover the incentive if I don't qualify. How's that
I don't know if the poster is on the level or not but if they have a delivery date someone might take the gamble. If anyone is considering it make sure you do your homework! Without a firm delivery date this is worth nothing except moving up the list by a few months.
I missed why anyone would risk doing this period, let alone pay some sort of premium for the privilege. I presume he's feeling that since you would then have the "rare" opportunity to be included in a rebate program that might never be available again or at least at this level, you would be willing to pay for that.
OK. I'll do it but you have to cover the incentive if I don't qualify. How's that
I think it's also not allowed according to the contract. Hopefully no one gets screwed by taking him up on his offer without researching
Well. I have a VIN and a delivery date for Wednesday, September 5th.
I was contacted by a delivery specialist about a week ago. He's been very cool about holding off on confirming that I'm buying the car until the lawsuit issue gets handled. I told him I would like to "tentatively" schedule a delivery and he has done so. Here's to hoping that Buck A Beer Premier doesn't screw us again.
A bit nervous that Tesla won't be able to deliver mine before Sept 10th. Its strange because I put my order in on June 7th and I still have not received my VIN even though many on this forum have received their VIN and a delivery date prior to September 10th. Also, when I asked the rep about the rebate they were being pretty cautious and responded with:
"...Just to clarify regarding the highly publicized lawsuit regarding Tesla.
The lawsuit filed on behalf of Tesla ruled that the government's wind-down plan was unlawful as it arbitrarily and unfairly excluded Tesla's customers, this does not indicate that consumers are back in eligibility for any rebate if customers did not already take delivery of their vehicle prior to July 11 when the government had cancelled the rebate.
Meaning, while the Ontario ruling was made in favour of Tesla; the provincial government is now required to go back to the drawing board and determine how it plans to withdraw the EV incentive without singling out Tesla customers specifically. We do not know how long this development will take nor if it will resurrect the $14,000 incentive for consumers. It is probably safe to assume that any new deliveries after July 11 are still ineligible for the Ontario rebate.
Again, still not the best news, but I hope it helps shed some clarity on the situation."
Thought that was an interesting tone
"...Just to clarify regarding the highly publicized lawsuit regarding Tesla.
The lawsuit filed on behalf of Tesla ruled that the government's wind-down plan was unlawful as it arbitrarily and unfairly excluded Tesla's customers, this does not indicate that consumers are back in eligibility for any rebate if customers did not already take delivery of their vehicle prior to July 11 when the government had cancelled the rebate.
Meaning, while the Ontario ruling was made in favour of Tesla; the provincial government is now required to go back to the drawing board and determine how it plans to withdraw the EV incentive without singling out Tesla customers specifically. We do not know how long this development will take nor if it will resurrect the $14,000 incentive for consumers. It is probably safe to assume that any new deliveries after July 11 are still ineligible for the Ontario rebate.
Again, still not the best news, but I hope it helps shed some clarity on the situation."
Thought that was an interesting tone
jkirkwood001
Active Member
My spirit is there with you, but my head says 'no'.
The courts haven't forced the government to expand the program, only to close it equally. I don't believe you will be able to get a new order - having received a refund - and apply anew for a rebate. Sorry for your loss.
Good news is - it's just a matter of time! In 12-18 months. both new Teslas will be available cheaper, and some used ones starting to appear. You will be able to get one eventually. I wish you well.
If you're trying to find a pattern I'll still you that I ordered RWD, silver, sport wheels. No vin and no DA.
Thank you for the insight - there are many people here who post excellent comments and I truly appreciate all of them.First of all, let's wait and see how this plays out. You may very well be rendering an accurate portrayal of how events will unfold but what if Ford just cancels the program outright as of Friday? I doubt he would stoop that low but if he did you might then be thanking your lucky stars.
IIRC, shortly after this thread started, I had commented that participation in government programs shouldn't be akin to playing roulette in a gambling casino. Unfortunately, that's what many of us have experienced. Even when there is a change of elected parties, typically the transition of programs is done much more fairly and without all the BS orchestrated bravado we are being subject to. However, that's what we have to work with so you just have to make decisions that work best for you and move onward and upward.
I think the greatest hope would be for a federal program announcement sometime later this year but no guarantees there. I have but ONE news source reference that it will be so - but this is something they've brandied about for some time so hard to say for sure.
I try to remain objective when I say Tesla would like to do something for us. The auto industry is extremely cut-throat and they aren't exactly in the black. They aren't entirely alone though. Ford Motor Company is also in the news of late and facing their own financial issues. Tesla simply isn't in a position to do much more than they already have which some would argue is a lot more than any of the big 5 would have done. They really can't say or do much anyway till this is completely over from a legal perspective as they can't be jeopardizing any future outcomes or further actions. They are playing this as they need to and also waiting to see what the government's response is, just like we are.
Despite some logistics and communications issues, they have treated their customers with respect. They don't coddle their customers like the big 5 do who really really need to be invested in their customer service just to get you to buy in to their product and services. The big 5 don't do that out of the goodness of their hearts. They know they need to, period.
When you examine how entrenched the PC's are in their thinking and mandate, I don't see them playing nice here at all so little hope to be had there. As we've witnessed, the courts have no jurisdiction on government policy generally unless it can be proven (as was the case here) there was discrimination or some other unlawful aspect to the policy.
I say all this having cancelled myself. For me, it was simply a risk/reward decision and I'm in a position to be able to look at this in a longer term perspective so can afford to be patient and see if there's an opportune time to dive back in. Despite all the FUD that's out there, it only makes sense to me that Tesla is the choice for now and the foreseeable future. I'm sold purely on their battery technology and charging infrastructure. For others it will take more and for still others it will take acts of godliness
If it does turn out that those who stayed in end up getting the rebate, then I may just take the government to small claims court. The rationale is that I was in-line for a rebate, having ordered the car, but that an unlawful government action caused me to cancel. I would be looking for either a cash payout of $14k or even a payout in that amount, but with the same stipulations as what the EV program had (i.e. to be received after proof of payment, hold the car for a year, etc.).
I would of course have to make a decent case that I would most likely have received the car by September 10th, but that might not be too hard...Tesla might even let me know if there were orders placed after mine for the same spec vehicle that were delivered in time. Otherwise I’m sure there are good people on here who wouldnt mind sharing that info.
For those lawyer types in here - do you think that has a snowball’s hope in hell?
Colby Cosh: Tesla 1, Ontario government 0 … but the clock hasn’t run out yet
Another interesting op-ed with a bit of a twist.
IMHO yes Tesla might have made a greater enemy but just capitulating isn't the answer. Sure the province could try to single out Tesla again but I'm not sure how they plan to do this without the air of targeting.
Another interesting op-ed with a bit of a twist.
IMHO yes Tesla might have made a greater enemy but just capitulating isn't the answer. Sure the province could try to single out Tesla again but I'm not sure how they plan to do this without the air of targeting.
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Ya, I was reading that earlier this morning as well. Great article. It gets closer to identifying the reality of the situation.
Judge Fred Myers declared that “While everyone’s rights could possibly be vindicated by damages claims in the fullness of time, lawsuits for $14,000 are uneconomical, will take too long, and will cause harm and distress that in my view would amount to a failure of justice as compared to simply resolving the matter…” The judge seems to be talking about Tesla customers here, while finding in favour of Tesla itself. The lesson: if you’re a car company, be sure to hire Jedi litigators.
Given the professionalism shown by Tesla in this situation, I think the government will think twice before trying anything that will further penalize them and not risk further lawsuits by their "Jedi litigators".
thesaadone
Member
Perhaps I'm reading too much into it but Judge Myers comment above seems to leave the door open a bit for something like a small claims court filing @Tertulian for those that felt they needed to cancel or were pressured into doing so.
I also think it prevents the government from doing anything punitive in reaction to losing. The judge seems to be intimating that $14k in damages for everyone affected could be an outcome but resolving the matter is the better course of justice.
From that perspective, the onus would appear to be on the government to resolve the issue or risk facing further punitive damages.
I also think it prevents the government from doing anything punitive in reaction to losing. The judge seems to be intimating that $14k in damages for everyone affected could be an outcome but resolving the matter is the better course of justice.
From that perspective, the onus would appear to be on the government to resolve the issue or risk facing further punitive damages.
I'm hopeful that someone here will call a dealership that was offering the rebate and inquire as to whether or not they are still making that offer. If other dealerships are still "open for business," then that implies they've been communicated something from the province regarding the status of the program.
Mitsubishi is running radio ads to get the rebate still. On AM680 or AM590 or both.
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