Opinions wanted: bad 75D range or too high expectations

[Btoast]

I purchased a 2018 75D from Carvana; 7 seat with 22" wheels and Pirelli tires which I do not believe are low rolling resistance.

Fully charged the car reads 216 miles. However, based on the two trips we've made, the real-world mileage is around 130-140; maybe 150 if I baby it. For example, my wife and I made a trip to Pasadena on Saturday that was 58 miles one-way. Those 58 miles were 90% highway driving at my usual 70-75 mph on cruise control and hitting typical traffic. That trip ate 41% of the battery and we were on track to eat roughly the same amount on the way back, but I stopped at a charging station as we had other places to go and our trip energy meter was indicating we'd only have around 20% left at our current rate and we had other places to go near our home.

My daily drive for work can range from as low as 50 miles to around 120 miles, so on my longer days, this car would leave me with very little left to do anything else that day without charging.

With that said, is this basically what I would expect with a 75D? I've already initiated the return to Carvana as the mileage on this particular car is just too low for what I need/looking for right now and I'm now looking at a 100D. However, I'm open to another 75D if what I've seen with this car is simply lower than average. Ideally, I'd like to get at least 175-200 miles of real-world driving so I have a buffer/extra in the tank to run some errands after work if needed. I've read other form posts about this topic, and I've seen some people say they are getting 170+ with the 75D.

My budget is 90-95K all in, so I'm basically looking at 2018s to keep the mileage down as I drive about 25k miles per year.

Thanks,

 

[DCGOO]

I purchased a 2018 75D from Carvana; 7 seat with 22" wheels and Pirelli tires which I do not believe are low rolling resistance.

Fully charged the car reads 216 miles. However, based on the two trips we've made, the real-world mileage is around 130-140; maybe 150 if I baby it. For example, my wife and I made a trip to Pasadena on Saturday that was 58 miles one-way. Those 58 miles were 90% highway driving at my usual 70-75 mph on cruise control and hitting typical traffic. That trip ate 41% of the battery and we were on track to eat roughly the same amount on the way back, but I stopped at a charging station as we had other places to go and our trip energy meter was indicating we'd only have around 20% left at our current rate and we had other places to go near our home.

My daily drive for work can range from as low as 50 miles to around 120 miles, so on my longer days, this car would leave me with very little left to do anything else that day without charging.

With that said, is this basically what I would expect with a 75D? I've already initiated the return to Carvana as the mileage on this particular car is just too low for what I need/looking for right now and I'm now looking at a 100D. However, I'm open to another 75D if what I've seen with this car is simply lower than average. Ideally, I'd like to get at least 175-200 miles of real-world driving so I have a buffer/extra in the tank to run some errands after work if needed. I've read other form posts about this topic, and I've seen some people say they are getting 170+ with the 75D.

My budget is 90-95K all in, so I'm basically looking at 2018s to keep the mileage down as I drive about 25k miles per year.

Thanks,

That sounds about right to me. My 2018 100D comes in at 277 rated miles if charged to 100% (was 295 when it was new). But the 22-inch wheels are killing your real range. You can check your watt-hours/mile on the energy graph. It should run around 300, to get decent range. I suspect your car is consuming more like 400+.

 

[roblab]

And.... you're looking at the X?? MY 2018 Model 3 used to get 318 miles of range, and I haven't checked it since it was new. You should expect low range when you go out and buy the smallest battery made by Tesla. And it's interesting you haven't figured out that the range numbers are calculated by driving on a smooth, straight road at 60 mph. You don't do that. You driving "70-75 mph" I'm sure entails little forays up to 80 at times. Speed eats up range, and it takes about twice as much energy to drive 80 as it does to drive 60. Gas cars also suck the juice when traveling high speed, but somehow no one notices because gas cars have a lot more energy storage: the Tesla battery only holds about 3 gallons equivalent of energy. I'm not sure how 22" wheels "kill" your range, either. Nearly always it's driving style.

Semi trucks drive slow for safety, but also to get better mileage.

 

[jboy210]

100D would be better at meeting your needs. The EPA rating schedule for highway mileage is done at a max of 60 mph. And as @roblab points out going faster uses a lot of energy

 

[FatherTo1]

And.... you're looking at the X?? MY 2018 Model 3 used to get 318 miles of range, and I haven't checked it since it was new. You should expect low range when you go out and buy the smallest battery made by Tesla. And it's interesting you haven't figured out that the range numbers are calculated by driving on a smooth, straight road at 60 mph. You don't do that. You driving "70-75 mph" I'm sure entails little forays up to 80 at times. Speed eats up range, and it takes about twice as much energy to drive 80 as it does to drive 60. Gas cars also suck the juice when traveling high speed, but somehow no one notices because gas cars have a lot more energy storage: the Tesla battery only holds about 3 gallons equivalent of energy. I'm not sure how 22" wheels "kill" your range, either. Nearly always it's driving style.

Semi trucks drive slow for safety, but also to get better mileage.

Tires and wheel size most definitely affect range, even Tesla now lists range differences based on wheel size.

On my previous Model S, downsizing from 21s to 19s netted an additional 12.5%, or 36 miles, of range.

One reason I don’t trust Edmunds poor range reviews of Teslas is every test they do has a Tesla with the biggest wheel option compared to the competition with their smallest wheel option. I routinely exceed EPA range estimates on my Model S and Mode Y, but only with the smallest wheel option and Grand Touring tires instead of stickier Ultra High-Performance.

For OP, you have the heaviest Tesla with the smallest battery pack, along with largest wheel size, and driving close to 80 MPH. Downsize your wheels, get LRR tires, drive the speed limit and you should significantly improve your range. Same still applies when you upgrade to that 100D.

 

[Harvey Danger]

You can check your watt-hours/mile on the energy graph. It should run around 300, to get decent range. I suspect your car is consuming more like 400+.

This. No point humoring this person until they report what their own instrumentation is telling them about their consumption.

 

[cwerdna]

100D would be better at meeting your needs. The EPA rating schedule for highway mileage is done at a max of 60 mph. And as @roblab points out going faster uses a lot of energy

And, the highest average speed on any of the the EPA test cycles is only 48.4 mph.

One can click thru all the tabs at Detailed Test Information.

 

[Btoast]

That sounds about right to me. My 2018 100D comes in at 277 rated miles if charged to 100% (was 295 when it was new). But the 22-inch wheels are killing your real range. You can check your watt-hours/mile on the energy graph. It should run around 300, to get decent range. I suspect your car is consuming more like 400+.

And.... you're looking at the X?? MY 2018 Model 3 used to get 318 miles of range, and I haven't checked it since it was new. You should expect low range when you go out and buy the smallest battery made by Tesla. And it's interesting you haven't figured out that the range numbers are calculated by driving on a smooth, straight road at 60 mph. You don't do that. You driving "70-75 mph" I'm sure entails little forays up to 80 at times. Speed eats up range, and it takes about twice as much energy to drive 80 as it does to drive 60. Gas cars also suck the juice when traveling high speed, but somehow no one notices because gas cars have a lot more energy storage: the Tesla battery only holds about 3 gallons equivalent of energy. I'm not sure how 22" wheels "kill" your range, either. Nearly always it's driving style.

Semi trucks drive slow for safety, but also to get better mileage.

100D would be better at meeting your needs. The EPA rating schedule for highway mileage is done at a max of 60 mph. And as @roblab points out going faster uses a lot of energy

For OP, you have the heaviest Tesla with the smallest battery pack, along with largest wheel size, and driving close to 80 MPH. Downsize your wheels, get LRR tires, drive the speed limit and you should significantly improve your range. Same still applies when you upgrade to that 100D.

This. No point humoring this person until they report what their own instrumentation is telling them about their consumption.

Thank you all for your responses.

As I mentioned in my original post, I returned that car to Carvana. While I was never expecting to get the EPA range, I did not expect to have roughly a 40% reduction in real-world performance.

With that said, some of you underestimate how lazy a driver I am. I do a lot of freeway driving for work. Basically, I get on the freeway and immediately set cruise control and pretty much never go above 75. Regardless of that, I'm including photos from a new Model X 100D I was able to score. The following two photos represent a regular trip in typical traffic and the current total distance that I've traveled in this car. Unlike the Carvana X, I can easily hit over 200 miles in this car with my regular driving and routines, which better suits my needs.

Overall, I'm stoked about the new X. I was very fortunate to locate a clean, low mileage, and well-equipped 100D on 20" Sonic Carbon wheels.

 

[Rocky_H]

It was kind of a tough idea that Tesla even offered and sold a Model X with the 75 sized battery. The X is a behemoth and has terrible efficiency, and those 22 inch wheels are making it worse. That just doesn't surprise me, and I wouldn't go with an X 75.

 

[jboy210]

It was kind of a tough idea that Tesla even offered and sold a Model X with the 75 sized battery. The X is a behemoth and has terrible efficiency, and those 22 inch wheels are making it worse. That just doesn't surprise me, and I wouldn't go with an X 75.

I think the X75 made perfect sense for Tesla to sell. It's range matches nicely with the average US commute of 28 miles. That is why we did not pay 20K more for range we would seldom use.

We drive 95% of the time within 60 miles of home, doing task like shopping, commuting, running errands, etc. And our X75 was fine for this. And although it is It is nice our 2022 X LR has a 100 kWh battery, but we really don't use the range for much except to charge less frequently.

 

[Mark2018s]

Thank you all for your responses.

As I mentioned in my original post, I returned that car to Carvana. While I was never expecting to get the EPA range, I did not expect to have roughly a 40% reduction in real-world performance.

With that said, some of you underestimate how lazy a driver I am. I do a lot of freeway driving for work. Basically, I get on the freeway and immediately set cruise control and pretty much never go above 75. Regardless of that, I'm including photos from a new Model X 100D I was able to score. The following two photos represent a regular trip in typical traffic and the current total distance that I've traveled in this car. Unlike the Carvana X, I can easily hit over 200 miles in this car with my regular driving and routines, which better suits my needs.

Overall, I'm stoked about the new X. I was very fortunate to locate a clean, low mileage, and well-equipped 100D on 20" Sonic Carbon wheels.

To get stated range you need your watt-hrs/mile to be around 270. To achieve this in the heavier MS, you need to use regen braking to slow, and try to not stop as much as possible.

Ive learned how to coast into red lights feathering the accelerator so to get as much regen as possible.

This has lowered my avg from high 300s to under 300. Its not as much fun, but its now a test to see how low I can get it. On ideal conditions, going to work I can be under 250.

 

[gangzoom]

It was kind of a tough idea that Tesla even offered and sold a Model X with the 75 sized battery.

Remeber back in 2016 Tesla was desperate for cash and sales figures. We actually ordered a 60D X (software locked 75) when it was available, the cost at the time was £64k base price, the base price of a new X in the UK is now £95k+!!

Inflation accounts for some of that but 100D became avaliable at the end of 2016 from memory it was roughly £135k as you had to spec it as a P100D, so over double the cost of a 60D!

Given every else about these cars are identical you are literally paying about £1k extra per kWh, or £350 for every extra mile of range at £95k, and compared to a P100D nearly £800/mile, but you also got a quicker 0-60 time for that extra £71k .

Interms of 'value for money' the smallest battery Teslas have always been the best, but if you need the range than clearly you need to order biggest battery version you can.

 

[Harvey Danger]

To get stated range you need your watt-hrs/mile to be around 270.

for a model X 75D it's actually 300 but otherwise yes i totally agree with your general point about needing to drive conservatively to attain this 'break even' rate

Interms of 'value for money' the smallest battery Teslas have always been the best,

The idea I actually liked about the software locked batteries was you could just set the charge limit to 100% all the time and never worry about overcooking the battery. You get good charging rates right up to the top at superchargers etc.

 

[thatbonk]

How does the cargo weight affect the efficiency? I recently experienced exactly the same situation. I.e. MX 75D getting only about 130miles real world range. I was reading other threads talking about the Wh/miles and driving pattern. Hence I have been paying attention for past few days. When I drove with my family (4ppl) with fully loaded trunk, no matter how careful I drive, the lowest I can get to is 380wh/mile. When I drive a continuous highway trip around 70-90mph, energy is around 440 wh/mile. I got this car as a replacement for my minivan, hence I will pretty much always have at least 4 people in the car. How much range will I expect for 100D in that case?

 

[thatbonk]

Okay, reading a few other similar threads, I guess it’s just me not well educated on the proper expectations on the energy consumption. I guess it is the paradigm shift of range-expectation from full-tank-of-gasoline to fully-charged-battery.

 

[drtimhill]

I purchased a 2018 75D from Carvana; 7 seat with 22" wheels and Pirelli tires which I do not believe are low rolling resistance.

Fully charged the car reads 216 miles. However, based on the two trips we've made, the real-world mileage is around 130-140; maybe 150 if I baby it. For example, my wife and I made a trip to Pasadena on Saturday that was 58 miles one-way. Those 58 miles were 90% highway driving at my usual 70-75 mph on cruise control and hitting typical traffic. That trip ate 41% of the battery and we were on track to eat roughly the same amount on the way back, but I stopped at a charging station as we had other places to go and our trip energy meter was indicating we'd only have around 20% left at our current rate and we had other places to go near our home.

My daily drive for work can range from as low as 50 miles to around 120 miles, so on my longer days, this car would leave me with very little left to do anything else that day without charging.

With that said, is this basically what I would expect with a 75D? I've already initiated the return to Carvana as the mileage on this particular car is just too low for what I need/looking for right now and I'm now looking at a 100D. However, I'm open to another 75D if what I've seen with this car is simply lower than average. Ideally, I'd like to get at least 175-200 miles of real-world driving so I have a buffer/extra in the tank to run some errands after work if needed. I've read other form posts about this topic, and I've seen some people say they are getting 170+ with the 75D.

My budget is 90-95K all in, so I'm basically looking at 2018s to keep the mileage down as I drive about 25k miles per year.

Thanks,

You should probably check a few of the posts in these forums discussing range and driving styles, particularly those that discuss how freeway driving at 70-75mph can really lower your range (as can winter temperatures, but you are in SoCal so you should not see much of that!).

 

[drtimhill]

Okay, reading a few other similar threads, I guess it’s just me not well educated on the proper expectations on the energy consumption. I guess it is the paradigm shift of range-expectation from full-tank-of-gasoline to fully-charged-battery.

Nods. The thing to remember is that ALL cars have to do MUCH more work as the speed increases to push through the air (it's proportional to the square of the speed) .. try putting your hand out the window at different speeds to see. But ICE engines are so inefficient that the difference is hidden, since most of the energy in the fuel is wasted as heat, so even a doubling of power output doesnt impact the MPG much. With all EVs, there is almost no wasted heat so you experience the full impact of the extra power needed to drive faster.

 

[Rocky_H]

How does the cargo weight affect the efficiency?

Barely any. Weight affects some during acceleration, but not much when moving at steady speed. The car already weighs a few thousand pounds. A few hundred extra isn't a big deal.

When I drive a continuous highway trip around 70-90mph

It is vastly more about the speed you drive. People tend to forget that EPA conditions are for very mild driving, and most people's highway speeds are very much above that. And they usually had never paid attention to or cared about how terribly exponential wind resistance builds up with speed. And it's the curse of very high efficiency under good conditions that any losses can knock the efficiency down quickly. Whereas a gas engine that's losing 70% of the energy as waste heat is hard to move the needle on losses much more.

 

[Falcon73]

I frequently take my wife to her work, but sometimes she drivers herself. See the difference in our driving styles and the affect on the Wh/mile below.

I'm the conservative driver (401 in this case which is a bit high for me) and my wife has the lead foot (523 - a bit low for her). It's quite a difference in efficiency and for only 4 minutes faster. No traffic in these results (note the times of day). A bit more wind today but warmer temps. I like it warmer inside and it was cooler when I drove, so this would seem to about offset.

Mike:

Annie:

 

[brainhouston]

OP, i know u got rid of the car but for future reference...
340Wh/mi is actually really good for 22s n 75D
I get 350 with 20s on 90D in warm weather n 370 now that its cold. with 22s i was at 380 in warm...
My real miles are about 180, maybe 200 if i go below 65... in winter im lucky to get about 160...
Just running errands i find myself charging twice a day at home, grateful for 72amp charger
Def get 100D. My next car for sure.
And everything was fine with that 75D, just the nature of the beast.