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Out of warranty concerns about Tesla

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Only problem with that, is if the item had thrown a fault code, you will need Tesla's Proprietary software to reset codes.
This is really the key. Tesla uses proprietary tooling, and doesn't sell the tools or Service Manuals to third parties. In some states it's mandatory that if a manufacturer provides tools and manuals to a dealer, they also make them available to third-party shops. Without a dealer network, we're in thoroughly grey area, here.

Without third-party shops to service the out-of-warranty fleet, repair costs are going to be astronomical. I know my just barely a year old car has had multiple thousands of dollars of repairs so far (all under warranty, of course), so I'm hoping eventually they'll open up regarding service. Next year there will start being more pressure on this. As many of the early-adopters start falling out of warranty, I suspect Tesla will be working hard to keep them happy (or get them into a new S, I suppose).
 
Am I understanding correctly that Jerome and other executive VPs are no longer stepping-in to resolve issues for owners like Islandbayy?

To me, that is the true test of whether or not anything is changing at Tesla. When I bought my car in August of 2013, Jerome and all at his level were very proactive and singularly focused on customer satisfaction. I'd like to know that hasn't changed. Islandbayy, have you escalated to Jerome?
 
Wow, i'm glad this thread has gotten this much attention.

There are some very good points, I'm glad so many other people feel the same way I do. I'm really bothered by this issue and basically been told "tough" by Tesla.
 
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As many of the early-adopters start falling out of warranty, I suspect Tesla will be working hard to keep them happy (or get them into a new S, I suppose).


Think for a minute what the CPO program is going to do to the possibility of selling your car on the private market. Option 1: A CPO car that can be serviced under warranty with Tesla. Option 2: Your car, which still must be serviced by Tesla but is out of warranty.

Which would you buy? What level of discount would I have to bake into the price of my private sale car to make it worth your while to purchase?

I'm just glad I got the RVG, is all I'm saying.
 
Think for a minute what the CPO program is going to do to the possibility of selling your car on the private market. Option 1: A CPO car that can be serviced under warranty with Tesla. Option 2: Your car, which still must be serviced by Tesla but is out of warranty.

Which would you buy? What level of discount would I have to bake into the price of my private sale car to make it worth your while to purchase?

I'm just glad I got the RVG, is all I'm saying.

That idea is the #2 reason why I'm thinking regardless of things I'm going to get the extended warranty..

#1 is so I don't have to pay for service.. but this thread is proof I'm ticked off about that.
 
I was able to pull 54kWh out of the battery and could have pulled more. So next time I do that, regardless of temperature or road conditions, if I was not able to pull 54 kWh, but say 50 kWh that would be indicative of degradation no?
Yes, you could do that - because that is direct measuring the amount of energy you can pull out of the battery. But you have to do it all the way down to 'empty' i.e. until the onboard electronics go into panic mode and calls Game Over. And you have to start at same "full level" i.e. after charging all the way up to some max where onboard electronics shouted STOP and cut the charging. You than have to make sure you know the battery temperature (exact value not just hot/cold/warm) and they you have to pull some constant current out of the battery. Not too high and not to low - something resembling 'normal driving', say about 17kW (at 85kWh that represents 0,2C discharge) or ~40A. This is measurement, anything else is guessing game.

P.S. Oh, and of course - between your first and second attempt at such measuring, onboard electronics and FW must not change because when it shouts STOP at charging or calls Game-Over at discharging is not same thing as full or empty bottle. Charging stops when battery voltage reaches some preset high value and discharging stops when it drops down to some preset low value. By lowering the max voltage and raising min voltage Tesla can improve expected lifetime of batteries. By same action they also lower available capacity.
 
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Am I understanding correctly that Jerome and other executive VPs are no longer stepping-in to resolve issues for owners like Islandbayy?

To me, that is the true test of whether or not anything is changing at Tesla. When I bought my car in August of 2013, Jerome and all at his level were very proactive and singularly focused on customer satisfaction. I'd like to know that hasn't changed. Islandbayy, have you escalated to Jerome?
I suppose I will try that route. Where should I start, email or ownership phone again?
 
The reason Tesla cannot sell extended warranty in Florida is because Florida law requires all extended warranties to be sold in person, and Tesla only sells it via their website, and the stores cannot sell it to you.

I understand that there are reasons such as this, but there also seems to be no movement - at least no communication - with Florida Tesla Owners, on any possible alternatives. As stated previously, other high end makes offer it, so hopefully Tesla can at some time figure out something for Florida owners - especially those who have supported Tesla from the start with the Model S.
 
its worse in person. i sometimes get a shudder as well. i was trying to keep it quiet as it was 11pm and the sound of the clunk is loud enough to echo between the houses.

With it that bad, I just can't believe they can't seem to get to the bottom of this issue. My car certainly doesn't do this. It has me curious to what the actual problem is. Whether this is internal to the drive unit, necessitating drive unit replacement or is this an external motor mount issue. Did your prior service visits give any indication as to the root cause? Perhaps we should throw my go-pro camera in the drive unit area and see if the drive unit is moving around wildly...
 
its worse in person. i sometimes get a shudder as well. i was trying to keep it quiet as it was 11pm and the sound of the clunk is loud enough to echo between the houses.

I was going to suggest that since you seem inclined enough to do DIY repairs -- why not just remove the drive unit and dissassemble it? With a clunk that loud, it should be fairly obvious what is happening. Probably gear wear or slop in a bearing-driveshaft interface. However, since your drive unit is under warranty per the 8 years 100k miles, why not keep stressing it as much as possible until it fails or becomes undeniably broken? At worst it might leave you stranded, but it would get you a new drive unit and possibly lend some clues to the failure mechanism.

DIY/Internet forum technical support for this car is lacking - for obvious reasons - need the used prices to keep falling. Except for the user that built the solar storage unit, there arent many DIY photographed internal components.
 
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I suppose I will try that route. Where should I start, email or ownership phone again?

I've found that sending a friendly and courteous email to Dr. Jerome Guillen has gotten me results 100% of the time. I don't want to publish his email address openly for scraping reasons, but it follows the same convention as all Tesla corporate email addresses (first name initial)(last name)@teslamotors.com. You have been a solid advocate for the Tesla brand with your great videos and you've added immeasurably to my understanding of the car's battery pack. In fact, I sent one of my friends to view your videos when they had questions about battery longevity, and it was a result of viewing your videos that they decided to pull the trigger on their Model S. I would highlight that with Jerome and enumerate all of the issues you've had with the car as well as service's failure to remedy the issues.

I would be really shocked if Tesla did not take really good care of you after sending your email to Jerome. My stomach turned when I read your recent post outlining your issues. You are exactly the type of owner who should be put upon a pedestal at Tesla. I feel sick just thinking about what you've had to endure because that could be any of us. We all took a risk and gambled on an unproven car from an unproven company, and Tesla taking care of us was the major saving grace that many of us relied upon in order to take this leap of faith.
 
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This is a fascinating thread for someone like me, who has cancelled one order because of concerns about drive unit failures, and is still waiting on the sidelines in spite of my fanatical love of the MS and Tesla. I want to order again next year, but might wait a bit longer to see what happens with the very first of you who are firmly out of warranty on most items. If "out of warranty" folks report that repair information and parts are hard to obtain, and that out of warranty repairs are costing big bucks at service centers, then I'll end up waiting even longer.
 
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The reason Tesla cannot sell extended warranty in Florida is because Florida law requires all extended warranties to be sold in person, and Tesla only sells it via their website, and the stores cannot sell it to you.
I think another issue in Florida has to do with insurance laws. Insurance companies argue that:
1) extended warranties are a type of insurance, which should only be handled by an independent party that is licensed to sell insurance; and
2) a manufacturer of a product has a 'conflict of interest' in selling an extended warranty, because they choose the terms by which the service is done.

When you purchase an extended warranty on your car bought through an 'independent franchised dealership', you are not buying it from the manufacturer of the product. It is perfectly OK for Tesla Motors to give you a warranty, of any length they like... But the act of selling a warranty must be done by a third party, typically a state bonded/licensed insurance agency, rather than the manufacturer of the product itself. The system allows an 'independent franchised dealership' the benefit of being a licensed insurance agent, as well as a licensed lender, as well as a licensed service provider, as well as a licensed dealer. Yet somehow, that is not considered to be a 'conflict of interest' at all.

Naturally, this smells of yet another type of protectionist/monopolistic cronyism, as insurance companies have a lot of pull with state legislatures too...



I am admittedly a Tesla Motors Certified Apologist Fanboy. I am very optimistic about how the company will handle out-of-warranty conditions. I am extremely confident that Tesla will simply 'make it right' for all those who are concerned.

Those who are realistic, pragmatic, and/or pessimistic about Tesla Motors are wont to predict with extreme authority that Tesla Motors will one day have to 'grow up' and 'be just like everyone else' and 'draw a line in the sand' that requires they 'screw customers'. They tell me I am being naive. They say there is 'no way' Tesla can survive by 'giving stuff away'.

But from my perspective, Tesla Motors plans to do something... extraordinary. I don't have inside information. I don't have any reference to any official statements from Tesla. I just have a gut feeling, some strong guesses, and a healthy amount of faith in the notion that Elon Musk and his fellow executives are very sincere when they say they want Tesla to change everything about the interaction between an automobile manufacturer and the consumers that buy their products.

So I'm a bit more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I believe that in practice, the limitations on warranty will be largely ignored. I believe that Tesla Motors intends to take care of 2012 & 2013 buyers of Model S at least two years past the official warranty period.

I'm much more understanding of Tesla Motors' apparent lack of communication. I believe that Tesla has already decided this, but is keeping that close to the vest, because $#0r+s, Bears, and Naysayers would immediately claim it was a mistake. They would try to spin it as a 'loss' for Tesla, an overwhelming expense that could not be borne.



I do not share the concerns about being able to do my own maintenance on a Tesla Motors product, because I would not bother to, personally. I know that for some it is a matter of pride, for others it is a matter of skill, and for others it is a matter of finance to work on their own cars. There are far too few Tesla vehicles on the road for any independent services/maintenance shops to bother with them.

The expense of training staff and purchasing diagnostic equipment cannot be balanced against such a small installed user base. And until the Model ☰ is a proven hit, with at least 100,000 units on the streets in the US per year, the user base will still be too small. That, combined with a mandate for Tesla to not make a profit on service would be a hard pill to swallow.

Why would anyone go through such an effort to provide service to Tesla cars that might have 0.35% of the installed US market by 2020? With the Model S alone being revised with something on the order of 20 hardware changes per week on average, about 1,000 per year, how could a published volume possibly cover your specific version of the car better than the database that a Tesla Service Center has access to?

Independent shops for Tesla Motors cars may well appear someday, but they won't be part of national chains at first. They'll be in affluent neighborhoods, next door to Tony's Fiat & Ferrari. It will be a long time before you can hope to get them serviced at a local Pep Boys. It will be practically forever before you can get over-the-counter replacement parts at AutoZone. Maybe, just maybe... Tesla will make a deal with Walmart or Sears automotive service centers to provide all the appropriate equipment and training to their staff to handle repairs and service, but I don't think even that is very likely.
 
[EDIT] Thought I would add what Drive Train Clunk sounds like for those un-familiar. Camcorders microphone didn't pick it up the best, quite a bit louder in person. And correction, 44,000 miles on the car. 10,000 on new battery, editing post to reflect the correction. Given how spammed my personal email and my PM inbox on TMC is getting, It looks like I don't stand alone in my frustration, nor the issues I'm having.

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Holy Cow! I'd never heard that before. If my car did that I'd have a heart attack. You mean Tesla says that's ok?? That is definitely not OK. Somethings going to give in there. I sure hope they at least have the decency to fix it under warranty no matter what milage you have - that's just awful. And you have to listen to that every time you drive the car! That's just sickening. So sorry. I know we're first ducks in the pond, but they should fix that, no matter what they have to do.
 
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its worse in person. i sometimes get a shudder as well. i was trying to keep it quiet as it was 11pm and the sound of the clunk is loud enough to echo between the houses.
Islandbayy, I've been following your posts and YouTube videos since before I bought my car over a year ago. You were a quintessential "fanboy" (and I mean that in a good way) and very much a figure in the early adopter Model S community. I still remember your early videos where your trunk was pouring water out of the bumper stops and recessed handle. That freaked me out and almost deterred me from buying the car until I saw all your other videos loving and enjoying the car with your "midgets" babbling in the background.. To see you go from that to this doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies. I truly hope Tesla makes this right for you. The icing on that clunk sound video is the beginning where it won't recognize your key, another item you've been saying hasn't been fixed. My car does this too just not often enough for me to bring it up to Tesla. I too have had other minor issues like others here.. Replaced door handles (one of which still acts up on rare occasions), steering wheel motors, terribly delicate and prescratched (service loaner) paint, rust leaking ouf of the front air dams, UMCs that got way too hot charging on 40A and were swapped out and other little stuff...
I def agree that everyone should consider 30A charging on the UMC because it makes a world of difference. Anyhow, even with the small problems that have mostly been promptly handled by service (outside of the paint and door handle) I can only nervously wonder what the future might hold after 50k miles...
Hats off to you and the OP for having the courage to speak up, because a year or so ago I think this thread would have gone a very different direction, with many owners vehemently defending Tesla like it was their jobs... It too love my car very much but wonder and sometimes worry what the future will hold. They called me today to schedule a proactive inspection of my contactor... They were very vague when I inquired if this was something they found in diag logs or if they were just doing it because my car was an earlier build.. I sincerely applaud that proactive approach very much especially considering that's a problem that can leave me stranded or worse in the middle of no where... BUT, how much would a contactor problem cost me once Renegade has passed over the great 4yr/50k mile divide??
I hope they make this right for you. I think with your semi celebrity status ;-) they will def make it right but this is still concerning that you had to take it to the forums before it is rectified.
 
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