Being new to EV (I even haven't had a hybrid), I aways hear or read about this, but most often people seem to be very satisfied with the Model S. Anyone though annoyed about the supercharging times and how many hours does it truly add to say all 7 to 9 hour roadtrip? As the trip planners in the car been accurate?
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Overcoming range anxiety.
- Thread starter ichospitalist
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- Model S Range Anxiety
The trip planner at EV Trip Planner is pretty accurate and is a good guide. In short, if you drive straight through with no breaks currently it will take longer. If you currently stop for meals and breaks, you can plan your stops accordingly around superchargers and it'll be similar to what you currently do.
STbreaker
Member
Unless you're a marathon driver, the stops are about when you would want to. Only difference is that your stops have to be preplanned rather than on the fly. In most areas of the country, there is a supercharger which can easily be reached even with the lowest battery capacity. In many cases you could even skip one, though there is a thread that discusses how it's actually faster NOT to skip. You can read it yourself later, but the theory is that if you stop at every possible position, you'll only need like 10 minutes of charging to get enough charge to hit the next spot rather than 45-50 to get close to full
Of course, this only applies to distance driving. For day to day commuting and grocery getting, I actually have LESS anxiety, because I start every day with a full tank
Of course, this only applies to distance driving. For day to day commuting and grocery getting, I actually have LESS anxiety, because I start every day with a full tank
I've had my car for a while now, and with the relatively new trip graph, range anxiety just isn't because you can see in real time how you are doing compared to the estimate. (it wasn't really a problem before the trip graph either.) For a couple of years there were no Superchargers along my normal trip routes, no range anxiety--just longer charging times at RV parks. My most common round trip is about 1,400 miles. It takes me just about the same time as it did with my previous ICE car (+-10%) but the Tesla makes the trip much more enjoyable--even if you are kind of stuck traveling on the boring interstates.
Big-Al
Member
I have some thoughts about this. I am a new owner of a S 70D with 19 inch wheels. Since the car was delivered in late June 2016, I've traveled with my family from Northern Virginia to NY and to Orlando. During my trip down to Orlando I stopped in practically all the Superchargers between Washington, DC and Central Florida. As an enthusiast I personally didn't mind stopping every 2 hrs or so to charge. My family, however, was not so happy. While some of the Superchargers were located close to a fast food restaurant, others were not so close. For example, the one in Kingsland, Georgia, was behind a hotel and far from places to eat. The one in Santee was also a bit of walk from a nearby McDonalds. The Rocky Mount location was behind a couple of hotels. There was a Texas restaurant next door and an Outback down the road. The Supercharger in St. Augustine even though in a Premium Outlet Mall, the traffic to get into that location was deadly. On a Friday afternoon when I stopped there it took me an hour just to enter the mall parking lot. The Savannah Supercharger, while at the airport is still a walk from the terminal building. I don't mean to be petty, but driving all day is tiring in itself and having to walk a lot to get something to drink or go to the bathroom is not what I - or my family - wants to do.
The reality is that while is it super fun to drive electric, one does lose the flexibility of stopping anywhere to "fuel". Another thing that we faced were Supercharger locations that were full. As a true enthusiast, I explained to my family that in the next few years there would be more Superchargers. That said, I understood where the family was coming from, not everybody is as patient as a Telsa fan. After my experience this summer, I hope that Tesla makes serious efforts to not only increase the Supercharger locations, but to also increase the number of stalls. I think that there should be more locations closer to each other so that drivers have flexibility in choosing where to stop. I'm personally worried about what is going to happen once thousands of Model 3s hit the road. If there aren't more locations and soon, there is going to be a lot of unhappy Tesla owners.
In the end, I love my car. Best car I've driven; I will never go back to an ICE car. Still it is important to be provide constructive criticism. I'm certain that in a few years we'll have lots more Supercharger locations.
The reality is that while is it super fun to drive electric, one does lose the flexibility of stopping anywhere to "fuel". Another thing that we faced were Supercharger locations that were full. As a true enthusiast, I explained to my family that in the next few years there would be more Superchargers. That said, I understood where the family was coming from, not everybody is as patient as a Telsa fan. After my experience this summer, I hope that Tesla makes serious efforts to not only increase the Supercharger locations, but to also increase the number of stalls. I think that there should be more locations closer to each other so that drivers have flexibility in choosing where to stop. I'm personally worried about what is going to happen once thousands of Model 3s hit the road. If there aren't more locations and soon, there is going to be a lot of unhappy Tesla owners.
In the end, I love my car. Best car I've driven; I will never go back to an ICE car. Still it is important to be provide constructive criticism. I'm certain that in a few years we'll have lots more Supercharger locations.
The supercharger network works better for 85 or 90 Kwh battery packs, and will work even better for the cars that will be getting 100 Kwh battery packs, because charging times are faster when the battery pack charge level stays below 80%. With the smaller battery packs, it's likely those owners will have to take more time to charge - because they're more likely to charge to 90 to 100% of charge in order to make it to the next supercharger at highway speeds.
We did a 2500 mile road trip last month, and the charging stops really weren't a big deal - we had pre-planned the trip, and took advantage of longer charging times when we stopped for lunch and dinner when chargers were near restaurants.
We did a 2500 mile road trip last month, and the charging stops really weren't a big deal - we had pre-planned the trip, and took advantage of longer charging times when we stopped for lunch and dinner when chargers were near restaurants.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I suggest getting the largest battery, even if the marginal-range improvement looks expensive. The extra range that the additional 5KWh in my battery (of only a handful of miles compared to next-smaller model) has never made a difference between making-it, and not, but on a day-to-day basis I have that much more buffer when I encounter a diversion or poor weather such that I never have range anxiety, nor the need to find an emergency charging solution; plus it also makes an appreciable difference to charging time at Superchargers.
I drive long distance only a few times a year, and I'm quite happy with the prospect of a 30+ minute stop every 3 hours in a Tesla. Some of those stops we would have made in an ICE anyway, for meals, but getting out and going for a walk to stretch our legs means that the passengers arrive refreshed and without muscles complaining of being in one position for 12+ hours! let alone the fatigue on the driver of such marathon-sessions to "get there as quickly as possible" which, of course, resulted in the driver being a writeoff the following day!
I drive long distance only a few times a year, and I'm quite happy with the prospect of a 30+ minute stop every 3 hours in a Tesla. Some of those stops we would have made in an ICE anyway, for meals, but getting out and going for a walk to stretch our legs means that the passengers arrive refreshed and without muscles complaining of being in one position for 12+ hours! let alone the fatigue on the driver of such marathon-sessions to "get there as quickly as possible" which, of course, resulted in the driver being a writeoff the following day!
NikeWings
Active Member
Anxiety as named in your title, versus frustration as described in your post, are somewhat different concerns. I'm never anxious about range management, and rarely frustrated during long trip necessity to super charge. Both are manageable with planning and a drive style adaptation to the EV world. I too, was new to the EVs, so I understand the curiosity. But, I am comfortable charging for a quick 45-60 minutes for every 3 hours or so of drive time, depending on conditions. if you are a frequent distance driver, get the biggest battery possible. The incremental range is more significant to your driving plans, than given credit for having. It can shave charge time and leap frog stops when well planned. Last point - this absolutely requires a change in habits and attitude. Don't kid yourself. My Friday commute from Silicon Valley to Los Angeles is no longer a 5.5 hour hard buzz south. It's a full day event and you'll be miserable if that type of reality is unbearable. Good luck with your decision.
I am expecting the 90D. The only model s with a higher range is p100d which is near 50K more than the 90D. I am hoping there will be a 100D upgrade, and I'd upgrade if it is just 20K. 50K is too much and I'm not into drag racing or in the business of impressing people with 2 second 0 to 60 acceleration. Just need the range.
NikeWings
Active Member
Agree.....my use of the word possible was as it relates to you, your habits and wallet. I have a S90D and quite content although just shelved my X90D order to await the 100D as it will be more in line with the range I'm already getting from the S. I may be in the minority, but I believe the 100 to be rolled out beyond the PDL, sooner than not.
RogerHScott
Active Member
jelloslug
Active Member
I have a 60D and while the slowdown as you reach 100% is not nearly as bad, it does not maintain full speed all the way up to 100%. It's still WAY faster than then the fastest L2 charging speed.
ElectricTundra
P85D AP1
Driving electric is an acquired taste, and a very enjoyable one. 
Trips take a bit longer but are also more enjoyable.
1) EV Trip Planner will help you plan your trip. This doesn't have to be set in stone but will give you a good plan that you can modify as you go. With the increase in superchargers and Tesla destination chargers we find ourselves planning less and less though.
2) Chargerville will make each stop more enjoyable, particularly for your wife and family as it will give you a bit of info on what others have found nearby for food and entertainment while charging. It will also help you choose which charger to plan for meals at. Don't forget to add your own reviews, particularly for good stuff for kids which is currently missing.
For us it adds about 5% to maybe 8% to the overall time. OTOH I'm more awake and relaxed and less grouchy. We sit down to enjoy and digest our meals and have much better quality food (and cleaner restrooms). I thought the extra time would be an issue but have found that the advantages far outweigh any disadvantages.
Trips take a bit longer but are also more enjoyable.
1) EV Trip Planner will help you plan your trip. This doesn't have to be set in stone but will give you a good plan that you can modify as you go. With the increase in superchargers and Tesla destination chargers we find ourselves planning less and less though.
2) Chargerville will make each stop more enjoyable, particularly for your wife and family as it will give you a bit of info on what others have found nearby for food and entertainment while charging. It will also help you choose which charger to plan for meals at. Don't forget to add your own reviews, particularly for good stuff for kids which is currently missing.
For us it adds about 5% to maybe 8% to the overall time. OTOH I'm more awake and relaxed and less grouchy. We sit down to enjoy and digest our meals and have much better quality food (and cleaner restrooms). I thought the extra time would be an issue but have found that the advantages far outweigh any disadvantages.
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NikeWings
Active Member
BTW there is a thread Be honest: is SCing on a long trip annoying? that may provider a broader data set to consider. I've not read it but aware of it, and passing it along in case it's missed your radar.
Best advice I received regarding range anxiety was on this forum and it was simply this: Slow down and enjoy the ride.
The first time I was hit with range anxiety was when I found my buffer shrinking rapidly from 50 miles to under 10 miles with 50 more miles to go to the next SC. Slowing down from 85mph to 50mph allowed me to start regaining the buffer and I arrived at the next SC with 20 miles of range. That slowing down might seem extreme but it it only added ~20 minutes to the trip.
You should plan your trips with the best tools available, but you have some control if and when you encounter unexpected adverse conditions (headwind, rain, etc).
The first time I was hit with range anxiety was when I found my buffer shrinking rapidly from 50 miles to under 10 miles with 50 more miles to go to the next SC. Slowing down from 85mph to 50mph allowed me to start regaining the buffer and I arrived at the next SC with 20 miles of range. That slowing down might seem extreme but it it only added ~20 minutes to the trip.
You should plan your trips with the best tools available, but you have some control if and when you encounter unexpected adverse conditions (headwind, rain, etc).
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
My back-of-envelope suggests:
85 MPH to 75 MPH adds 8 minutes (per hour)
85 MPH to 65 MPH adds 18 minutes (per hour)
85 MPH to 55 MPH adds 32 minutes (per hour)
Range increased based on figured on Tesla's site simulator (which has a MAX of 70MPH). I suspect it is more dramatic (more air resistance saved) at speeds higher than 75 MPH)
70 MPH to 60 MPH adds 10 minutes (per hour) - Range +21%
70 MPH to 55 MPH adds 16 minutes (per hour) - Range +33%
70 MPH to 50 MPH adds 24 minutes (per hour) - Range +47%
85 MPH to 75 MPH adds 8 minutes (per hour)
85 MPH to 65 MPH adds 18 minutes (per hour)
85 MPH to 55 MPH adds 32 minutes (per hour)
Range increased based on figured on Tesla's site simulator (which has a MAX of 70MPH). I suspect it is more dramatic (more air resistance saved) at speeds higher than 75 MPH)
70 MPH to 60 MPH adds 10 minutes (per hour) - Range +21%
70 MPH to 55 MPH adds 16 minutes (per hour) - Range +33%
70 MPH to 50 MPH adds 24 minutes (per hour) - Range +47%
Which superchargers have you found full? I'm just curious. I've done several roadtrips up and down the East coast and don't think I've seen any stations at more than 80% capacity before. Usually we are the only car there.
Science fan
Member
I have read that air resistance contributes about 12% more to drag for each 10 mile per hour increase in speed but, above 70 that increases to about 15%.
Drag is proportional to the square of the speed. So a 10% (not mph) increase in speed is a 21% increase in drag. Of course other things contribute the energy consumption besides drag, but this is the main supra-linear contributor, so it dominates at freeway speed.
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