P85D styling not distinctive enough?

[AnOutsider]

I understand why certain posts, including mine, were moved to snippiness. But the issue of whether it actually is a "valid concern" should be a point that is up for debate, in a constructive manner, and not taken as a fact. Some of us feel that this is not a valid concern, as the designers of the cars must also, since they chose to design it exactly the way it is -- without any distinctive features.

I suppose what I SHOULD have said is that it is a valid topic for discussion. There's no right or wrong here as most of this is opinion, but it's something that's fine to discuss so long as it's a civil discussion.

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

I'm with MartinAustin and chickensevil on this one. Anyone can have whatever opinion they please on the styling, and it's a valid opinion. But I, personally, do find that the performance/speed/suspension/other changes in the P85 and P85D are worth the price premium; and I, personally, do prefer that the car stay as low-key as possible. When I eventually upgrade my unbadged P85 to a P85D next year, I can give you about 99% confidence that my new car will look exactly like the old. The less people know about its performance and cost, the better.

 

[AudubonB]

I am very happy that the largest portion of my investment portfolio is in an organization that appears not to give a hoot about satisfying those who have that "Lookatmelookatmelookatmelookatmelookatmelookatmelookatmelookatmelookatme" Syndrome.

So you invested in TWTR or FB?

RT

Ha Ha! Gets my vote for the funniest post in this oft-times very funny thread.

And the answer is: No. I had, however, planned to short the ____ out of FB at the IPO, but was, as usual, out of contact with the rest of the world. My wife and I detest​ Facebook and all it implies.

 

[MartinAustin]

When I eventually upgrade my unbadged P85 to a P85D next year, I can give you about 99% confidence that my new car will look exactly like the old. The less people know about its performance and cost, the better.

BOOM!

Also, I would wait until the new paint shop is up and running. I believe the paint will be more hard-wearing. The current paintwork seems vulnerable to stones & chips.

 

[dsm363]

There is always the aftermarket anyway. People want something bad enough and are willing to pay for it someone usually steps up.

 

[mejojo]

Perhaps the issue comes down to what kind of "value" someone needs out of paying some extra for their car.

If $30K-$40K is a lot to a person, then maybe they feel a need to show it off to someone else.

 

[green1]

Seems pretty simple to me. The P85D already has the following performance enhancements:
- faster acceleration
- staggered tires
- better suspension
- better seats

And that's in addition to the other new features that lower models can get as well (such as better brakes)

When people call out Perfect_Flaw for only wanting cosmetic changes to prove he spent more money, he claims he actually wants better suspension, staggered tires, and better brakes, but the P85D already has all of those things. So I can't help but think that he really DOES just want cosmetic changes.

Luckily for him, Tesla has that option too, P85D vehicles are the only ones with the options of red calipers and a rear spoiler. So he can get those to show the world that he paid more, while the rest of the buyers can enjoy their increased performance without shoving it in people's faces.

 

[sitter_k]

When people call out Perfect_Flaw for only wanting cosmetic changes to prove he spent more money, he claims he actually wants better suspension, staggered tires, and better brakes, but the P85D already has all of those things. So I can't help but think that he really DOES just want cosmetic changes.

Luckily for him, Tesla has that option too, P85D vehicles are the only ones with the options of red calipers and a rear spoiler. So he can get those to show the world that he paid more, while the rest of the buyers can enjoy their increased performance without shoving it in people's faces.

He was just a troll here, either upset that he bought a P85 right before the D was announced or never really owned one. Afterwards to save face he claimed to have gotten an unbelievable deal on a heavily discounted inventory. Most of his posts were anti-tesla or backhanded complementary.

 

[jpwe10]

I am very surprised that the flagship performance car, the P85D, looks exactly like a 60 or 85 from the exterior. When commanding that type of premium price, why not have it stand apart from the exterior besides a simple badge, red calipers, and stick on carbon fiber spoiler (none of which this P85D has, looks like a barebones 60 w/ 21's) that everyone else has? Tesla needs to do what BMW, Mercedes, and Audi do- have clear distinctive exterior enhancements like their M, AMG, and S cars. I understand Tesla is maximizing profits, but come on here Elon.. this $130K "supercar-like" performance car looks like your $70K version, but faster. Where are the suspension enhancements? Carbon ceramic brakes? You know, the things that upgrade premium performance cars get with the premium price upgrade. The P85D should even have its own unique 21" wheel design, specific to the P85D.

Dude... Get unplugged performance's stuff. Subtle, looks good, and isn't too pricey: unpluggedperformance.com

 

[ElectricFury]

To a naked eye, all teslas look the same. Differences are very subtle and nearly un-noticeable, especially if the car is moving...

 

[andrewket]

To a naked eye, all teslas look the same. Differences are very subtle and nearly un-noticeable, especially if the car is moving...

All Model S's I think we can agree the roadster looks sufficiently different than the S.

 

[Thud]

Imagine if BMW subscribed to Tesla's way of "minimal" thinking when designing their M class cars.

Introducing the BMW 5 Series!

Time to unveil- the M! - Introducing the fastest production sedan in the world, the M5! Only $30,000+ over base price!

Wait, they look the same... but... " I love their minimal understated approach! "

BMW does the opposite, they will let you add an "M-sport" package to even the base model. It looks closer to an M5 than it does to a non-M model.

Is it better to add "go-fast" appearance packages to slow cars, or to make a very fast car look similar to the "slow" one?

 

[malcolm]

It's really hard to make generalisations on Tesla's attitude to styling by studying the only 2 (count them - 2!) cars they have made so far.

They seem(?) to implement changes which have a maximum benefit (firmware updates are uniform - no differentiation according to model), but the focus is largely on the engineering.

So I'd like to see a styling change to the frunk hood IF it also resulted in less creasing.

Likewise wing mirrors replaced with cameras.

Of course EVERYONE would want these on all models - so we'd just be back at square one.

 

[scott jones]

thats your opinion, albeit a wrong, uninformed, and snarky one.

i come from a racing background and am a car enthusiast. I have built, owned, and driven many modified street and track cars. I own many performance cars and am at Laguna Seca at least every 6 weeks with one of my track cars. My daily drivers have always been high performance OEM variations of a base model.

with that said, it's not about wanting people to know I spent more on a car, it's about getting more for what I pay for and ME personally being reminded of why I spent more on the performance model- not just by how fast the car accelerates to 60mph, but by the way it looks, handles, stops, and performs overall as a package.

many people responding against me probably have never as so much driven on a race track or have been a real motor sports enthusiast- great. I assume most people here want to grab groceries and look cool driving off a stop light quick to get your adrenaline pumping. I expected more from the P85D variation. More than just a slight acceleration improvement. The car is much more expensive, twice as expensive as a base 60kwh model. The value proposition tanks quickly after pricing a standard 85kw car. For $85K you can get a decently equipped S85. The P85D variant of that is $120K. You have to ask, what are you really getting for $35,000 more???? (That's not even including the increase in taxes you will spend).

Sorry, but that type of premium only increases Tesla's profit margin while lowering the actual value proposition of the car for an improvement solely in the acceleration department.

100% AGREE. Too many people here are only reading bits and pieces of threads and then generalizing about ones desires for marked improvement for the price as vanity.
Don't judge someone you don't know. And don't claim you know there motivations. And REGARDLESS of motivations, Perf Flaw's points are all valid even for those claiming otherwise.

 

[scott jones]

Also, as one poster wrote: "That's what is so liberating about Tesla, that they don't think in analogies, as in "the other manufacturers pimp up their performance versions, we need to do it too"

I'd call the gull wing doors on the "X" pimped up. They certainly aren't needed. For those who don't know, Elon loves the gull wing doors of the Mercedes, so that's why the X has them.
It's certainly NOT because they are useful or easier to open and close compared to conventional doors. So the claims that Tesla is all about functionality are far from based in fact.

There's nothing wrong with wanting mechanical and exterior AND interior improvements that are worth $25,000 over the P85.
For some reason, FAR MORE of those here who are AGAINST making obvious and added-value changes for a P85D like to attack others opinions, versus the other way around.
It's okay for someone to have an opinion that's not something you share, without making personal attacks.
.

 

[sataponw]

I wonder if the lack of upgraded styling is more due to the fact that they do not want to change what is already pretty good in terms of drag coefficient and aerodynamic. I would think that any change in the external appearance of the car would have some effect the overall performance.

 

[chickensevil]

100% AGREE. Too many people here are only reading bits and pieces of threads and then generalizing about ones desires for marked improvement for the price as vanity.
Don't judge someone you don't know. And don't claim you know there motivations. And REGARDLESS of motivations, Perf Flaw's points are all valid even for those claiming otherwise.

No, most people I saw responding we telling him there were marked improvements from the S85D to the P85D... what the problem is, that not all of these improvements are "new". Some have been around since the beginning. This is because they ditched the P85 and the P85+ and rolled all of it under one package.

Now you can argue that the higher horsepower, larger motor, better inverter, improved suspension, larger back tires, new electronic braking system, improved seats, rear spoiler, red brake calipers... and on and on... are not "marked improvement" from the S85D to the P85D... but you would be wrong... and you are also welcome to vote that way with your wallet and buy an S85D instead of the P85D if you really don't think there is improvements worth paying for.

Will some of these differences eventually find its way down to lower models? maybe... but for now, the only way to get these things is through the P85D. If you ever thought it was worth it to go from the P85 to the P85+ then you would CERTAINLY think (and even more so) that it was worth it to go from the S85D to the P85D. Whether that difference is worth ~35k (going from the base S85D to the P85D with all the "recommended options"... seats, wheels, suspension, tech) is up to you to decide, again... with your wallet... but to sit there and claim that it isn't an improvement over the regular S85D shows how little you and Perfect_Flaw know about the car.

Also, as one poster wrote: "That's what is so liberating about Tesla, that they don't think in analogies, as in "the other manufacturers pimp up their performance versions, we need to do it too"

I'd call the gull wing doors on the "X" pimped up. They certainly aren't needed. For those who don't know, Elon loves the gull wing doors of the Mercedes, so that's why the X has them.
It's certainly NOT because they are useful or easier to open and close compared to conventional doors. So the claims that Tesla is all about functionality are far from based in fact.

There's nothing wrong with wanting mechanical and exterior AND interior improvements that are worth $25,000 over the P85.
For some reason, FAR MORE of those here who are AGAINST making obvious and added-value changes for a P85D like to attack others opinions, versus the other way around.
It's okay for someone to have an opinion that's not something you share, without making personal attacks.
.

The comments from Elon were that he got the inspiration for the design from Mercedes and others who have done that, but to say that they don't serve a function? You get better side clearance than a minivan door (improvement), you can step into the side of the vehicle without risk of banging your head (improvement), you can also step straight into the third row without having to jump over the second row (improvement). I have not seen any of these capabilities in any kind of current (or past) marketed SUV/Minivan. The closest you get to being able to access a third row from the street is in a 15 passenger van that has 4 rows!

And again, it isn't 25k over the P85... the P85 DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE. So there is no comparison here to be had from a cost perspective. But lets assume it did, I again pull back to, was it ever worth it to get the P85+? If the answer was ever "yes" then the same could be said regarding the P85D and even more so! Because now not only are you getting the suspension improvements pulled in from the P85+ but the other new things like another motor, increased speed, better handling (because of AWD even on top of the better handling from the improved suspension from the P85+), new brakes, new performance seats. All of this can be had at pretty much the SAME PRICE as what the original P85+ cost you. So again, if the answer was ever "Yes" to the P85+ then it would be a no-brainer to get the P85D. If the answer was ever "No" then you are welcome to reevaluate that the improvements are now worth pretty much the same as the previous P85+ price, and if you still don't feel it is worth it then that is your choice... again, feel free to vote with your wallet. But I guarantee you are in the minority here, and Tesla will not cater to you until either there is a natural progression on the car (which would have happened regardless of your specific taste) or because they become desperate for more buyers.

But please don't sit there and suggest that there is no difference at all between the P85D (spec'd to "recommended") and the S85D other than faster 0-60... because it clearly shows a lack of knowledge, which many people have been trying to kindly correct people on.

 

[fiksegts]

It ran 11.6 and 0-60 in 3.1.... it will hang with supercars in everyday situations... I have a McLaren, Ford GT and Lambo STS, and 0-60 in 3.1 is not easy in any of them.....


if you're tracking a 4 door sedan you have issues anyways.... M5, RS7, E63 are all garbage on a track....

I agree with the OP, the P85D should have been more distinctive on the exterior, at least a new color, like the bright blue in the beginning of this thread... even a new set of wheels....

Man, this supercar term is getting tossed out there like its nothing.

The P85D accelerates quickly to 60. It in no way, shape, or form brakes/handles/performs like a supercar on any supercar-like testing metrics of any scale. It barely runs a high 11 second quarter mile.. in fact, it runs a 11.8 @ 115MPH and even a Chevrolet Corvette Stingray runs a 11.9 @ 118MPH with only 460HP. The '15 Corvette Z06 with 41 less horsepower than the P85D (650 for the Z06) runs a 2.9 0-60 and high 10 second quarter mile at 128MPH. It will also destroy it on any track in the world. The Mercedes S63 AMG, Audi RS7, and BMW M5 will also dominate the P85D on a track, especially after the first lap.

Let's all agree, the P85D is a fast car from 0-60- but a SUPERCAR, it is not.

 

[green1]

I agree with the OP, the P85D should have been more distinctive on the exterior, at least a new color, like the bright blue in the beginning of this thread... even a new set of wheels....

At least you are willing to admit that your request is entirely cosmetic. You want people to know you paid more. Fair enough.

My problem is the people who CLAIM they want performance enhancements, but when those are pointed out, claim they don't exist and request more VISIBLE performance enhancements. Those people are being dishonest in their request. They claim they want performance, but actually want visibility.

 

[sitter_k]

At least you are willing to admit that your request is entirely cosmetic. You want people to know you paid more. Fair enough.

My problem is the people who CLAIM they want performance enhancements, but when those are pointed out, claim they don't exist and request more VISIBLE performance enhancements. Those people are being dishonest in their request. They claim they want performance, but actually want visibility.

Most of the people complaining wouldn't be if Tesla had just made the S60 and S85 body uglier than the P85. Problem solved. They don't think the P85 is ugly or lacking in styling they just don't think the S60 or S85 deserves to look like theirs, it should be an exclusive club.