P90D - What battery versions should I avoid?

[ed94582]

Normal degradation isn't covered, just like normal wear and tear, however an abnormal amount of degrade is something that is covered.

Any thoughts on what would be considered an abnormal amount of degrade? I have a 2016 P90D (not Ludicrous) that I ordered in late Feb 2016 and was delivered March 25th 2016. It looks like I got the V1 battery after looking at the battery sticker.

The car is plenty fast --even in Insane mode -- but a few questions as I catch up to these threads -- (I took a break at looking at the Telsa forums for about a 18 months but now catching up a bit so just noticing these threads about the P90D battery etc.)

• If I don't ever plan to do the Ludicrous upgrade -- does having the V1 battery as big of a deal? (or will they swap the battery) -- When I placed the order for the vehicle -- Tesla told me I could add Ludicrous anytime after (but perhaps that is no longer the case)
• Are there other things I should be looking for -- with the battery that might signal something faulty?
• What are standard levels of battery degradation after 2 years?
• For those who got the battery replaced under warranty -- what were some of the reason why the battery replacement was approved - i.e. what issues were you experiencing etc.

Am bummed that they included the center console about a week after I ordered and did the front fascia facelift a few months after I ordered and now this about the battery. Not to mention that I paid for air suspension, there were no showroom discounts when I ordered etc,

Conversely -- Autopilot 1 for the past 2 years has been great etc.

 

[JonG]

It seems the degradation of the 90 battery packs will not be significant enough to trigger a warranty replacement but based on what I've read the performance, charging, and capacity degradation for the 90 packs (even V3, apparently) is more than that for the 85 pack. If I had already bought a car with a 90 pack, there is nothing I can do but hope for the best but since I am considering a P85D or P90D, I think I'm going to not bother with a P90D at all as I see no point in paying a premium for a P90D over a P85D with the issued pointed out here.

But then a P85D has little advantage over an 85D above 40mph and the performance of a P85D especially with Ludicrous, is down compared to the P90D equivalent. Tesla have, after pressure, seemingly decided not to protect the P90D and so we have that performance back. There's also only a few K difference between a P85D and a P90D over here - maybe the concerns are already factored into the price of the cars.

I've a P90DL and while I can't say I'm happy about the situation I would still buy the car - its an AP1 facelift car with a V3 battery - my alternative for the performance was a P100D and they were £30k/$40k more. I am going to drop into my dealer and if I can upgrade to a 100 battery for £10k then I may well do that too, but thats because it has more of everything - performance and range.

 

[RYCO]

Does all of this affect non P 90s also? I have a June 16 90D. Should I be worried?

 

[azdryheat]

Does all of this affect non P 90s also? I have a June 16 90D. Should I be worried?

I wouldn't worry about it. I have a P90DL and think it is way overblown.

 

[Electricious]

But then a P85D has little advantage over an 85D above 40mph and the performance of a P85D especially with Ludicrous, is down compared to the P90D equivalent. Tesla have, after pressure, seemingly decided not to protect the P90D and so we have that performance back. There's also only a few K difference between a P85D and a P90D over here - maybe the concerns are already factored into the price of the cars.

I've a P90DL and while I can't say I'm happy about the situation I would still buy the car - its an AP1 facelift car with a V3 battery - my alternative for the performance was a P100D and they were £30k/$40k more. I am going to drop into my dealer and if I can upgrade to a 100 battery for £10k then I may well do that too, but thats because it has more of everything - performance and range.

You raise some excellent points but realize that the points you raise apply more to those who have already bought and own P90Ds. At some point, Tesla decided that the 90 battery packs need to protected for longevity and these measures were ostensibly better for the long term health of the battery pack. After the outcry they removed most of the protections so now whatever ramifications will cost the subsequent owners looking to buy these cars used.

I've seen used P85Ds from the mid 50s to the mid 60s and the least expensive P90D I've seen is in the mid 80s. With the stories of reduced capacity, charging times, and performance over time I'm not sure I can justify paying an extra $30K for a 90 battery pack as subsequent 90 battery pack owners who buy these cars used will be faced with whatever effects Tesla was trying to protect the battery pack.

If I plan to "use and dump" I would not be so concerned but we plan to own the car we buy for a long time...

 

[NikeWings]

@RYCO No 90D complaints here. (I've had more degradation with my P100D than my 90D.) After 20 months/27K+ miles, the 90D was still sipping yesterday at 282 miles when I unplugged to head back to LA. At most, I've lost 2 miles and its probably something less. (VIN #139383 - June 2016)

 

[Indpowr]

15 P90DL
0 issues
And if I lose range I dont care. I would not have bought a P if that was a concern.

 

[Electricious]

What is the usable battery capacity of a P90D and is the usable battery capacity different between V1, V2, and V3?

I believe the usable capacity of the 85 pack is around 78.

 

[Ande]

what with all the posts claiming that P90DL don't have "ludicrous plus" mode ?
I do have the "warp animation" it in the easter egg box, I can press and hold Ludicrous button for 5 sec to see the animation, get asked if I want my mummy ... then wait for 50°C
I did not realize that others that bought P90DL with all options did not get it ? - or is that related to older battery packs for some ?

 

[azdryheat]

You raise some excellent points but realize that the points you raise apply more to those who have already bought and own P90Ds. At some point, Tesla decided that the 90 battery packs need to protected for longevity and these measures were ostensibly better for the long term health of the battery pack. After the outcry they removed most of the protections so now whatever ramifications will cost the subsequent owners looking to buy these cars used.

I've seen used P85Ds from the mid 50s to the mid 60s and the least expensive P90D I've seen is in the mid 80s. With the stories of reduced capacity, charging times, and performance over time I'm not sure I can justify paying an extra $30K for a 90 battery pack as subsequent 90 battery pack owners who buy these cars used will be faced with whatever effects Tesla was trying to protect the battery pack.

If I plan to "use and dump" I would not be so concerned but we plan to own the car we buy for a long time...

In court Tesla was asked how many cars P90D's with Ludicrous showed excess wear/degradation due to use of LM. Answer: zero. They stated that they thought it was a possibility and that's why they tried to quietly reduce Ludicrous power. This was from a Tesla engineer.

 

[ahkahn]

My 90D has lost almost 7% of range (298@100% new down to 278@100%) after 43k miles and 16 months. It's literally in the SC right now with that complaint (excessive battery loss). They called and told me it was normal. That's my only disappointing factor with the Tesla... is that this pack has degraded much faster and deeper than most other reports.

 

[azdryheat]

My 90D has lost almost 7% of range (298@100% new down to 278@100%) after 43k miles and 16 months. It's literally in the SC right now with that complaint (excessive battery loss). They called and told me it was normal. That's my only disappointing factor with the Tesla... is that this pack has degraded much faster and deeper than most other reports.

View attachment 343563

I would ask them what normal degradation limits are. If they can't give you a number, it can't be normal.

 

[ahkahn]

I would ask them what normal degradation limits are. If they can't give you a number, it can't be normal.

I did... one guy said it does seem excessive to him, but the other guy said it seems on the high end of normal. They told me there are no published set degradation numbers, and that their basis for replacing/repairing battery packs has to do with the software throwing errors within the pack. My pack tested 100% normal... so that's what they go by.

Sounded kinda like the old porn vs. art debate... you know it when you see it. I'm still not thrilled with the answer, and I told them that, so they're keeping the car over the weekend to have a different tech take a look at it on Monday.

 

[David99]

I totally agree. If Tesla can make the statement something is 'normal', there needs to be a definition of what is considered normal and what is not normal. The warranty gives no specific numbers. They just state 'normal degradation' is not covered. But when someone sues Tesla for a warranty case, either Tesla or the court have to establish what is considered normal and what isn't any more.

The Nissan class action settlement ordered Nissan to replace batteries that showed less than 9 bars on the battery gauge. The gauge goes to 12. 8 out of 12 is 67%. If that is the threshold, we are far away from that.

 

[davidc18]

I wouldn't touch any P90DL. Tesla bought mine back when the V2 battery started having issues.

 

[ahkahn]

I wouldn't touch any P90DL. Tesla bought mine back when the V2 battery started having issues.

How did you pull that off?

 

[JohnnyG]

what with all the posts claiming that P90DL don't have "ludicrous plus" mode ?
I do have the "warp animation" it in the easter egg box, I can press and hold Ludicrous button for 5 sec to see the animation, get asked if I want my mummy ... then wait for 50°C
I did not realize that others that bought P90DL with all options did not get it ? - or is that related to older battery packs for some ?

Pictures? Videos? Something to substantiate this would be great.

A video starting with you pressing the "T", which would show the model, and then long pressing the star field warp animation to show the pop-up. Thanks!

 

[JohnnyG]

I did... I'm still not thrilled with the answer, and I told them that, so they're keeping the car over the weekend to have a different tech take a look at it on Monday.

Please let us know what they say. Thanks!

 

[2BEnhanced]

My 90D has lost almost 7% of range (298@100% new down to 278@100%) after 43k miles and 16 months. It's literally in the SC right now with that complaint (excessive battery loss). They called and told me it was normal. That's my only disappointing factor with the Tesla... is that this pack has degraded much faster and deeper than most other reports.

View attachment 343563

Where did you get the data for this chart? It is impressive and looks like a lot of data points.

 

[ahkahn]

Where did you get the data for this chart? It is impressive and looks like a lot of data points.

TeslaFi. I've used it since I bought the car.

@JohnnyG
Here is the text exchange with the Service Center: