P90D - What battery versions should I avoid?

[sakimano]

What about regular 90D's? Mine was built in May of 2017.

Maybe there's a thread about the 90D?

 

[Venomized]

When searching on Tesla.con how can I tell what version P90D battery it has?

 

[Daddy S]

Don't mean to be rude but I don't think you have a good grasp of what's actually going on. Comparing RC systems to a full BMS system just doesn't work. You can't make a battery pack go to zero, or for that matter close to it, in a Tesla. Their BMS won't allow it. Additionally I'd be interested in where you get your data points. The only extensive study of degradation in Tesla batteries that I know of shows that the cars that occasionally supercharged actually have less degradation.

There are a number of articles about heat and dendrites Etc that can tell you a lot. There's a lot of good people to read but it takes a long time. I'm 9 years into this (a patent in charging for electric vehicles) and it is simply not the way that you seem to be presenting it. And we haven't said a thing about the different chemical composition of batteries depending on their purpose. But perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

Just added another mile to my range by charging to full after letting it get down to about 50 miles of range. Have gained 2 miles of range in the last week. Now at 272!

 

[henderrj]

Sorry for not responding earlier, I've been out of town at a funeral.

Once again, I'm not sure you really understand how it works. With a battery management system what you're getting is an estimate of range. When you use enough for the battery to get close to the bottom and then charge it up very close to the top, or all the way the BMS allows you to, it can estimate more accurately how much range you will have.

It is not possible to increase the range on a lithium ion battery vehicle. Not once it's built I should say. New chemistry's and all can help, but that can't be injected into an existing battery. You are getting a very nice range on your p90d and should be quite pleased with it! But you're not improving the battery, or even helping it out all that much, by going down low and then up high on the charge. You're probably not hurting it much either! Leaving it at 100% will cause an increase in debdrite formation that will definitely not be good for your battery. Leaving it very low has other chemical difficulties. Keeping it between 30 and 70 percent will give you the absolute maximum life on a lithium ion battery. You might want to read up on Jeffrey Dahns work. He is pretty amazing.

 

[bp1000]

My P85DL needs it’s battery replacing. I don’t know what power it puts out but it won’t charge to 100% anymore and the range has fallen quite a bit.

It is being replaced with a 90DL battery.

Am I right In assuming this will be a v3 battery?

Can I therefore expect more performance?

But also this thread is worrying me, are the 90 packs more prone to issues then, as in will I start getting power limits and bigger degradation?

Or does this happen with P85DL batteries too? Mine was a feb 2015 UK build.

 

[Evil Twin]

you won't know until you see the battery number. also, a p85d (ludicrous) has a 1500 amp fuse so, unless they upgrade the fuse to 1600 amps, you wouldn't see v3 performance.

 

[PhilDavid]

My P85DL needs it’s battery replacing. I don’t know what power it puts out but it won’t charge to 100% anymore and the range has fallen quite a bit.

It is being replaced with a 90DL battery.

Am I right In assuming this will be a v3 battery?

Can I therefore expect more performance?

But also this thread is worrying me, are the 90 packs more prone to issues then, as in will I start getting power limits and bigger degradation?

Or does this happen with P85DL batteries too? Mine was a feb 2015 UK build.

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "rage has fallen quite a bit." What are your range numbers for your P85D?

Was it a gradual drop in range or more sudden? Are your supercharger speeds affected?

 

[PhilDavid]

you won't know until you see the battery number. also, a p85d (ludicrous) has a 1500 amp fuse so, unless they upgrade the fuse to 1600 amps, you wouldn't see v3 performance.

Isn't the fuse part of the contactor in the battery?

 

[rowing guy]

or V2 replaced....some 15's had a v2 (according to the Tesla battery parts sheet, the V1 was never supposed to be used in a factory P90D ludicrous).

I'm inquiring about a P90D (refresh) and found out it has a 5/2016 build date. Is there an approximate date they began using the v3 battery?

 

[azdryheat]

I'm inquiring about a P90D (refresh) and found out it has a 5/2016 build date. Is there an approximate date they began using the v3 battery?

My 8/2016 P90DL has a V3.

 

[JohnnyG]

I'm inquiring about a P90D (refresh) and found out it has a 5/2016 build date. Is there an approximate date they began using the v3 battery?

I want to say that they were installing the V3 by the refresh (04/2016), but don't quote me on that.

 

[JohnnyG]

... Am I right In assuming this will be a v3 battery?...
...Can I therefore expect more performance?...

you won't know until you see the battery number. also, a p85d (ludicrous) has a 1500 amp fuse so, unless they upgrade the fuse to 1600 amps, you wouldn't see v3 performance.

If they're converting it to a P90DL, and it is a V3, you should, as I believe the Pyro-Fuse is part of the battery assembly.
If it is the V3, with the new Pyro-Fuse, make sure to request that they update the software to utilize the extra available power.
Then verify it yourself to know for sure. You can use PowerTools (iOS App) or someone with a TDC adapter could scan the CANBus for you.

 

[rowing guy]

I want to say that they were installing the V3 by the refresh (04/2016), but don't quote me on that.

Thanks for the info. Oh shoot, I just quoted you on that....

 

[sorka]

Avoid P90D at all.
v1 & v2 doesn't meet specs. v3s tend to fry.

Missed this in the thread. I hadn't heard this. V1's have fast degradation. Haven't heard of issues with V2 and V3. V1 is 1500 amps. V2/3 is 1600 amps so a lot more power although it appears Tesla limited that back to 1500 amps unless you use launch mode.

 

[sorka]

I have a P90DL with a V1 battery. It is mind boggling fast -- I almost never floor it in ordinary driving. The V2 and V3 batteries will give you an extra 0.1 or 0.2 0-60 from the reports I have seen.

V1 is 1500 amps (same as P85DL). Both make the same power(about 460KW). V2/3 is 1600 amps and makes around 500KW so at least 50 hp.

 

[JohnnyG]

V1 is 1500 amps (same as P85DL). Both make the same power(about 460KW). V2/3 is 1600 amps and makes around 500KW so at least 50 hp.

I can't dig through the forums right now, but V3 eventually output more power than V2.

V1 never reached the performance specs advertised. It performed identical to P85DL.
V2 was able to achieve the originally advertised performance specs.
V3 was able to exceed the originally advertised performance specs.

 

[sorka]

I can't dig through the forums right now, but V3 eventually output more power than V2.

V1 never reached the performance specs advertised. It performed identical to P85DL.
V2 was able to achieve the originally advertised performance specs.
V3 was able to exceed the originally advertised performance specs.

Interesting but no necessarily the same thing. i.e. performance of original P85D was improved from 3.2 to 3.1 that changed the power curve slightly by allowing a little more power low down. It didn't change the battery or the amount of power the battery could produce.

I don't think there's any difference in V2/V2 power levels. Both are 1600 amp batteries. Only way the V3 would make more power than the V3 would be if the voltage drop was less than V2 under load.

 

[Ketchups]

270 @ 100%? I assume that's a broken in battery, not a new one, right?

I just got a brand new V3 1088792-00-A. Got it to 520kw and gets 272* miles of range on full charge.

@ahkahn, he essentially has less than 1k miles on the new battery.

From what I've read, battery degradation peaks/plateaus at 50k mi.

Had the other v3 before and only lost 3 miles of degradation (268)

So less than 20k miles on the first battery with 268mi range? or did you have another battery before that?

 

[JohnnyG]

Interesting but no necessarily the same thing. i.e. performance of original P85D was improved from 3.2 to 3.1 that changed the power curve slightly by allowing a little more power low down. It didn't change the battery or the amount of power the battery could produce.

I don't think there's any difference in V2/V2 power levels. Both are 1600 amp batteries. Only way the V3 would make more power than the V3 would be if the voltage drop was less than V2 under load.

Correct: the V1 and the P85DL both achieve 3.1sec.


Correct: the V2 & V3 are both limited to 1600A, however the V2 maxes out at ~495kW, whereas the V3 maxes out at ~525kW. I can't recall whether that was due to limiting voltage sag on the V3, or they were indeed drawing a small amount more current.
Based on what I do remember, I believe it was a change in battery chemistry that netted less voltage sag.

For reference: the V1 maxes out at ~455kW.

This is heavily documented here in the forums, but I can't search for it at the moment: sorry.

 

[Tech_Guy]

Correct: the V1 and the P85DL both achieve 3.1sec.


Correct: the V2 & V3 are both limited to 1600A, however the V2 maxes out at ~495kW, whereas the V3 maxes out at ~525kW. I can't recall whether that was due to limiting voltage sag on the V3, or they were indeed drawing a small amount more current.
Based on what I do remember, I believe it was a change in battery chemistry that netted less voltage sag.

For reference: the V1 maxes out at ~455kW.

This is heavily documented here in the forums, but I can't search for it at the moment: sorry.

As I recall highest recored V3 maxed at 511 or 512