Parity yet?

[Zooomer]

Anyone who's driven or owns both would not claim parity.
After my experience a month ago, I stated that we'll need 3-4 more updates at current improvement to reach parity.
Sad, I'm pissed. Ranted about it a lot. I feel I got F'd

Anyway, last night's update is another small improvement. So now we're prob 2-3 away from parity.
From the Norway talk/video it sounded like end of year they expect parity and several months into 2018 actual AP2 separation. I have my doubts tho because of the hardware included on AP2 cars and the difficultly they've had reaching AP1 parity.
IMHO other manufactures will begin to pass Tesla next year if they don't partner with someone more experienced.

 

[RationalOptimist]

I predict progress from here on in will be faster than people think. It's inherent to the way that machine learning works. Takes a long time to get the neural net building blocks properly in place for deep learning. Once they're in place, improvements can happen really quickly. My interpretation of the leap in performance that .42 represents is that those building blocks are now in place. If so, by the end of November, we could well see a truly jaw dropping update.

 

[kvandivo]

I predict progress from here on in will be faster than people think. It's inherent to the way that machine learning works. Takes a long time to get the neural net building blocks properly in place for deep learning. Once they're in place, improvements can happen really quickly. My interpretation of the leap in performance that .42 represents is that those building blocks are now in place. If so, by the end of November, we could well see a truly jaw dropping update.

What are you? A rational optimist?

 

[croman]

Any chance the lack of truck/motorcycle images is a patent thing? It wouldn't surprise me if someone owns the IP for that. Maybe even the adjacent lane car images. Total speculation, but seems possible.

No, no chance its related to IP. The images are in the AP2 library. The system just doesn't use it. It will but they are so far behind on everything.

 

[croman]

I saw something cool in the instrument cluster today. (Woaaah!)

Context: I's hurling down a tunnel with two lanes in the same direction.

IC correctly depicted two cars ahead of me in my own lane (radar rocks!!), and two cars in my left lane.

Then a motorbike came from behind and passed me in my left lane, and drove between those four cars ahead of me, before it steered left and captured the left lane in front of the two cars there.

IC animated the manuever perfectly, real-time. Amaaazing.

Parity that.

- AP1

I've noticed the animations are a lot more smooth and accurate. Not quite AP1 but a big improvement happened with .42 as compared to .40 in that regard.

I saw a car pull into a driveway and the IC kept displaying it as it traveled 25 feet down the driveway (perpendicular to the road). It kept radar lock (white). The car was oriented improperly (as it was going parallel to me in angle).

So I think they are working on this aspect. Lots more to do.

 

[HX_Guy]

Another thing I noticed last night is that the display of the car in the IC seems a lot more sensitive and accurate in its placement within the lane. Even a small adjustment in real life within the lane is mimicked in the IC.

 

[pilotSteve]

Any chance the lack of truck/motorcycle images is a patent thing? It wouldn't surprise me if someone owns the IP for that. Maybe even the adjacent lane car images. Total speculation, but seems possible.

I wonder about that (patent) too. There was a link posted up thread with the patent text. Tesla better get a license to use it or it will be a long time before we see multiple "avatar" (patent description) vehicles!

One question: does MobileEye have a license (or own) that patent?

 

[pilotSteve]

No, no chance its related to IP. The images are in the AP2 library. The system just doesn't use it. It will but they are so far behind on everything.

Yes, its great the icons are in the code base for adjacent vehicles but if there is a patent issue then they will NEVER be enabled until that is resolved. Hence my question if MobilEye holds a license to this patent and is blocking Tesla.....

 

[chillaban]

Anyone who's driven or owns both would not claim parity.
After my experience a month ago, I stated that we'll need 3-4 more updates at current improvement to reach parity.
Sad, I'm pissed. Ranted about it a lot. I feel I got F'd

Anyway, last night's update is another small improvement. So now we're prob 2-3 away from parity.
From the Norway talk/video it sounded like end of year they expect parity and several months into 2018 actual AP2 separation. I have my doubts tho because of the hardware included on AP2 cars and the difficultly they've had reaching AP1 parity.
IMHO other manufactures will begin to pass Tesla next year if they don't partner with someone more experienced.

I personally disagree. I've owned both and driven about the same miles on both (~18k) and I would say AP1 and AP2 are basically parity in terms of driving performance. On highways I would even say AP2 is superior to AP1 because you can actually push 80-90mph without severe degradation in performance around curve tracking like AP1. In local, AP1 has a small nod in that it uses lead-car-mode more and flat out refuses to engage in more city situations compared to AP2, but overall on my commute routes (highway in the morning and city in the evening), AP1 and AP2 have extremely similar disengagement frequency and overall performance.

 

[croman]

Yes, its great the icons are in the code base for adjacent vehicles but if there is a patent issue then they will NEVER be enabled until that is resolved. Hence my question if MobilEye holds a license to this patent and is blocking Tesla.....

Maybe. But I doubt that is what is going on here. I think its failure to implement on Tesla's part. It fits the pattern.

 

[EV-lutioin]

Which firmware version and when did you drive it?

Good question... it only had 400 miles on it, so I assume it had the latest firmware, but I'm not sure.

 

[chillaban]

I've noticed the animations are a lot more smooth and accurate. Not quite AP1 but a big improvement happened with .42 as compared to .40 in that regard.

I saw a car pull into a driveway and the IC kept displaying it as it traveled 25 feet down the driveway (perpendicular to the road). It kept radar lock (white). The car was oriented improperly (as it was going parallel to me in angle).

So I think they are working on this aspect. Lots more to do.

The "blink" effect seems gone too. Before it seems like when transitioning from above 25mph-ish to below, cars on the IC will vanish for a split second then reappear. Except for me, sometimes they did not reappear and it results in a dangerous city situation where you start slowing for a car and then suddenly start accelerating towards it….


Overall, .42 seems to have addressed a lot of AP2 quirks. For people that directly skipped from .34 to .42 like me, it's like a completely new car...

 

[Stevez]

The "blink" effect seems gone too. Before it seems like when transitioning from above 25mph-ish to below, cars on the IC will vanish for a split second then reappear. Except for me, sometimes they did not reappear and it results in a dangerous city situation where you start slowing for a car and then suddenly start accelerating towards it….


Overall, .42 seems to have addressed a lot of AP2 quirks. For people that directly skipped from .34 to .42 like me, it's like a completely new car...

100% agree. Big improvement. Now I’m excited to see what’s coming next. The last update to 34 I felt was a step backwards. 42 was a leap forward.

 

[croman]

Apparently Tesla is bullish on EAP now. But their months and months of silence that followed their major hype job exactly a year ago today leaves me skeptical despite evidence that they now finally have their act together. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...you fool me I can't get fooled again!

 

[chillaban]

Apparently Tesla is bullish on EAP now. But their months and months of silence that followed their major hype job exactly a year ago today leaves me skeptical despite evidence that they now finally have their act together. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...you fool me I can't get fooled again!

Ditto. Elon is working his magic on me, pulling me back to hopelessly optimistic about AP2/EAP. Heck, if they keep up the pace of improvements from .34 to .42 I can believe we might get some EAP or stop sign goodies by Christmas..... I just hope for all of us that we do not get any more bouts of the March->August stagnation.

 

[Bebop]

Anyone who's driven or owns both would not claim parity.
After my experience a month ago, I stated that we'll need 3-4 more updates at current improvement to reach parity.
Sad, I'm pissed. Ranted about it a lot. I feel I got F'd

Anyway, last night's update is another small improvement. So now we're prob 2-3 away from parity.
From the Norway talk/video it sounded like end of year they expect parity and several months into 2018 actual AP2 separation. I have my doubts tho because of the hardware included on AP2 cars and the difficultly they've had reaching AP1 parity.
IMHO other manufactures will begin to pass Tesla next year if they don't partner with someone more experienced.

Do these updates automatically upload in the car without notification? Still getting the hang of this. It seems like major updates you get a notification in the car to install.

 

[HX_Guy]

Heck, if they keep up the pace of improvements from .34 to .42 I can believe we might get some EAP or stop sign goodies by Christmas.....

Whoa now dont get too crazy!

I think we're a bit away from stop light recognition. Personally I would love for the next progress to be enabling the side cameras so that it shows cars parallel to yours and in the rear quarter view. That would be very useful for blind spot detection. Also, slowing down on on/off ramps would be great...it should be coordinating with the nav software.

 

[Byshop303]

I'm using this Google sheet to track deltas: Tesla HW2 Firmware Tracker

 

[iffatall]

Do these updates automatically upload in the car without notification? Still getting the hang of this. It seems like major updates you get a notification in the car to install.

No updates will get installed on your car without your knowledge.

Normally, Tesla rolls out updates to the entire fleet in a random (read unknown) sequence over a period of time (length unknown, and varies). When it is your turn in that sequence, the update will first download to your car (in the background) when it is connected to the internet - WiFi or 3G or 4G, doesn't matter. After the update is downloaded, you will get a pop up in the car saying an update is ready to install, and you get a choice - Install Now, or set a time to install automatically, or just ignore. You also get a notification on your phone. You can make the choice only in your car though.

If you do not select install now, a clock icon (yellow if installation is scheduled, white if not) appears and remains on the top bar of your center display which you can tap at any time to change your choice. Once the installation is complete, you get a notification on your phone. You also see a pop up in the car that tells you new software was installed and what has changed with the new update. The change log may or may not be detailed enough.

I said "normally" because in rare occasions, Tesla has been known to force install an update. But even in such cases, I believe you still get the pop up that tells you an update was installed. So no update will install without your knowledge, and in almost all cases they will install only with your permission.

A completely different thing is the navigation maps database update. This happens entirely in the background, usually annually, and you just get a small popup after, that says your maps are now up to date. You have no control over this. This sequence is also random (unknown), but once in the past, if I am not wrong, Elon has mentioned that WiFi-connected cars get the maps update sooner.

 

[Ames]

When comparing AP1 and AP2, why are we talking about windscreen wipers and icons in the IC display?

I do not think Tesla will use the same Instrument Cluster (IC) user interface with Full Self Drive (FSD). There are lots of other things to display like traffic approaching from rear, upcoming cross roads, traffic lights, stop signs, roundabouts...etc. What about those cool displays with camera feeds and colour coded neural net recognition?

IMHO the current IC display is for AP1 and soon to be replaced with something new.