PEM Failure

[W.Petefish]

That's why we need two EV's in the garage . My first thought was 'glad I have the Prius as backup'. My second thought was 'wish it was a Model X instead'.

Ha Ha. :biggrin:

On a more serious note, the bang you heard was most likely a spark inside the PEM caused by the IGBTs failing or a Cap inside the PEM exploding. (electrolytic caps can be very energetic when they "detonate".) New PEM for you. (905 appears when any of the HV accesses are opened w/o shutting down the car. It also follows that a HV access sensor could have been damaged during the event.)

Disclaimer: I could be wrong.

 

[bonnie]

Thanks, Petefish. I truly thought the car had been hit, your theory of events seems very likely.

Thank god for warranties .

 

[jory]

perhaps now would be propitious time for tesla to announce the after-new extended warranty purchase option that bonnie reported tesla VP of Worldwide Service, Joost de Vries indicated would be made available to existing roadster owners.

Thanks, Petefish. I truly thought the car had been hit, your theory of events seems very likely.

Thank god for warranties .

 

[DrComputer]

perhaps now would be propitious time for tesla to announce the after-new extended warranty purchase option that bonnie reported tesla VP of Worldwide Service, Joost de Vries indicated would be made available to existing roadster owners.

Yes, that would be nice as my 2.0 goes out of warranty in 3 weeks and I've not heard a peep from Tesla.

 

[smoothoperator]

Yes, that would be nice as my 2.0 goes out of warranty in 3 weeks and I've not heard a peep from Tesla.

a lot of PEM's fail, looking forward to an extended warranty as the roadster could possibly be one of the most expensive cars I have ever daily driven. I have already have had a few PEM's fail....

 

[dsm363]

Glad I bought the extended warranty now. I almost never buy extended warranties but for this car, figured it might be worth it.

 

[daniel]

Bonnie: Sorry to hear about your car. Glad you were not hurt. Stories like this scare me. I don't know why, really, since stinkers break down also. But in 8 years and around 35,000 miles, my Prius has never broken down. Does anybody have statistics on breakdown rates of the Roadster vs. the Leaf?

 

[jerry33]

Does anybody have statistics on breakdown rates of the Roadster vs. the Leaf?

I've never seen any. There appear to be a number of problems vexing Leaf owners by looking at the troubleshooting section of the mynissanleaf forum. It's hard to determine the rate from that because there are a lot more Leaf owners than Roadster owners and the Leaf hasn't been out for as long. Right now the big concern for the Leaf is battery degradation in hot climates. We'll know more in a couple of years whether this is a real concern or just instrumentation artifacts. With the liquid cooling, the Model S shouldn't have a problem.

 

[jaanton]

There's a reason we called FETs - Fire Emitting Transistors. You know, Tesla puts in all kinds of "thermal event" safety into the battery, maybe the PEM is another place where something is needed. A PEM is an expensive object, it seems like it should be more reparable/maintainable.

From what you've said, it sounds like at least one if not more of the IGBTs/Mosfets fried. (Possibly a controller error as well.)

 

[bonnie]

Bonnie: Sorry to hear about your car. Glad you were not hurt. Stories like this scare me. I don't know why, really, since stinkers break down also. But in 8 years and around 35,000 miles, my Prius has never broken down. Does anybody have statistics on breakdown rates of the Roadster vs. the Leaf?

There's a reason we called FETs - Fire Emitting Transistors. You know, Tesla puts in all kinds of "thermal event" safety into the battery, maybe the PEM is another place where something is needed. A PEM is an expensive object, it seems like it should be more reparable/maintainable.

I think most Roadster owners accept the fact that we are part of the research that has helped inform the design for the production Model S and beyond. And in return, Tesla has given us stellar (imho) customer service and overall treatment.

I'd expect that the Model S PEM will be easier to repair, reliable, etc... or else it will drive up costs for Tesla and eventually damage reputation. I can't see them letting that happen.

I love my Roadster. This is just a hiccup. And hey! New PEM for me! (probably - but will update when I know what happened)

 

[TEG]

There appear to be a number of problems vexing Leaf owners...

I responded in the LEAF thread here:
Nissan Leaf

 

[strider]

There's a reason we called FETs - Fire Emitting Transistors. You know, Tesla puts in all kinds of "thermal event" safety into the battery, maybe the PEM is another place where something is needed. A PEM is an expensive object, it seems like it should be more reparable/maintainable.

Well, the PEM in Model S is liquid cooled so that should help keep the temperature swings to a much narrower range than the air-cooled PEM in the Roadster.

Bonnie, ask if you can have the new/upgraded fans while they're at it? I wonder if that would have helped since it was a hot day (although you mentioned the PEM was in the blue temp band)?

 

[daniel]

I think most Roadster owners accept the fact that we are part of the research that has helped inform the design for the production Model S and beyond. And in return, Tesla has given us stellar (imho) customer service and overall treatment.

I've only had mine for a year, so I'm afraid I've not been much help to them as far as research. But I do understand that even my fairly late Roadster is new technology, with all the risks that carries with it. Wish I had a liquid-cooled PEM, though.

 

[Botbldr45]

Wow, Bonnie sorry about your car .... Bummer for all of us since we are in this together. I go in for scheduled service Friday. I guess I better as Matt in DC what he knows about the PEMs and extended warranties ....:frown:

 

[bonnie]

So let's wait and see the final verdict. I am completely confident that my car is in good hands.

 

[Eberhard]

Roadster 1.5 had the cooling blower build inside of the PEM housing . With this solution, the cooling air was sucked from aside via the side inlets. By moving the blower fan down, next to the motor blower, the nightmare started. Instead getting clean air from above, now the cooling air comes from the wheel housing. In wet and dusty conditions, the wheels is pouring all water and dust up and then directed to the blower fan.
It a simple an example of a failed technical decision, which has to be corrected by the manufacturer. Now the PEM is clocked with the road debris within short time. The driver is facing trouble and lost of time because he needs more time for charging, loosing range because the blower runs at highest speed to cool down the PEM with little efficiency.
The Roadster PEM cooling solution is not state of current technology and an ongoing source of future problems as I do face them from the very beginning. ( i am at 55.000 miles).

The liquid cooled PEM at Models S is much better and a similar solution has do be adapted for the Roadster.

 

[Botbldr45]

Ha Ha. :biggrin:

On a more serious note, the bang you heard was most likely a spark inside the PEM caused by the IGBTs failing or a Cap inside the PEM exploding. (electrolytic caps can be very energetic when they "detonate".) New PEM for you. (905 appears when any of the HV accesses are opened w/o shutting down the car. It also follows that a HV access sensor could have been damaged during the event.)

Disclaimer: I could be wrong.

This PEM event ....... Is this just a random error/breakdown that happens or is there some kind of preventive care or driving habit or maintenance that could be done to help prevent it???

Anybody have an opinion??

 

[Botbldr45]

Roadster 1.5 had the cooling blower build inside of the PEM housing . With this solution, the cooling air was sucked from aside via the side inlets. By moving the blower fan down, next to the motor blower, the nightmare started. Instead getting clean air from above, now the cooling air comes from the wheel housing. In wet and dusty conditions, the wheels is pouring all water and dust up and then directed to the blower fan.
It a simple an example of a failed technical decision, which has to be corrected by the manufacturer. Now the PEM is clocked with the road debris within short time. The driver is facing trouble and lost of time because he needs more time for charging, loosing range because the blower runs at highest speed to cool down the PEM with little efficiency.
The Roadster PEM cooling solution is not state of current technology and an ongoing source of future problems as I do face them from the very beginning. ( i am at 55.000 miles).

The liquid cooled PEM at Models S is much better and a similar solution has do be adapted for the Roadster.

Sooooooooo......... Is it possible that the new PEM fan design might help prevent the problem?

 

[bonnie]

This PEM event ....... Is this just a random error/breakdown that happens or is there some kind of preventive care or driving habit or maintenance that could be done to help prevent it???

Anybody have an opinion??

Since we don't know if this was what caused the problem (or if it's ever caused a problem), speculating now will just cause everyone to think it IS a problem.

 

[W.Petefish]

Roadster 1.5 had the cooling blower build inside of the PEM housing . With this solution, the cooling air was sucked from aside via the side inlets. By moving the blower fan down, next to the motor blower, the nightmare started. Instead getting clean air from above, now the cooling air comes from the wheel housing. In wet and dusty conditions, the wheels is pouring all water and dust up and then directed to the blower fan.
It a simple an example of a failed technical decision, which has to be corrected by the manufacturer. Now the PEM is clocked with the road debris within short time. The driver is facing trouble and lost of time because he needs more time for charging, loosing range because the blower runs at highest speed to cool down the PEM with little efficiency.
The Roadster PEM cooling solution is not state of current technology and an ongoing source of future problems as I do face them from the very beginning. ( i am at 55.000 miles).

The liquid cooled PEM at Models S is much better and a similar solution has do be adapted for the Roadster.

+1 for Eberhard.