Performance Model 3: Excited or Disappointed?

[FlatSix911]

He's talking about a drag strip. 15% faster on a race track would be mind blowingly good. To put it in perspective in this test a Ferrari 488 was only 18% faster than a Mazda Miata. Best Driver’s Lap: Slot Car Seca - Motor Trend
Also to keep it in perspective a Model S is slower than a stock Mazda Miata around Laguna Seca. Tesla has a long way to go before it can compete in that realm.
Ferrari 488 1:31.68
BMW M4 GTS 1:37.66
Mazda Miata 1:51.43
Model S (Refuel 2017) 1:52.43 (I'm guessing this was probably not on stock tires)

Interesting reading with a good comparison of different cars on the same track. Refuel 2017 was epic

 

[geometro]

I don’t track my cars, so my opinion here may not be worth much but it’s the internet so it’s priceless....

I don’t care for 0-60 once we are at 5 seconds or less, but I recognize that they are good for marketing and to be competitive. Kudos to tesla for this!
I’m much more interested in the suspension and braking... getting these right make a big difference in driving both on and off the track... and can be felt everyday.

Hoping this is better than most. For some reason, my Model 3 doesn’t feel as good as my E46 (with sport package) around corners.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Interesting, but I don't buy your conclusion. Unless equal tire type and especially driver experience and skill are taken into account, these numbers mean little. Miatas are perhaps the most widely raced production cars in the world, and at Laguna hundreds of highly experienced racers have driven Miatas in very intense competition. A relatively much smaller number of drivers of unknown experience and skill, with unknown tire type, driving in a few Refuel events can't be compared to Miata stock competition records.

All the times except the Tesla are from the Motor Trend test with the same professional driver presumably on stock tires.
I agree that I can’t speak to the Tesla driver’s skill but I bet they’re not too far off. The other times were much worse! With Elon’s bold claim you can be sure that professionals will test performance Model 3 and see how it stacks up.

 

[dgaultiere]

I agree with others that this all comes down to brakes, suspension, and handling. If the model 3P doesn’t perform well around a track then what’s the point? You’re paying 20k for white seats and 1 sec faster 0-60. Sure 3.5 is fast, but not worth it unless all you’re doing is taking it to the drag strip everyday.

Based on Elon’s comment about track performance and comparison to the M3, I was hopeful that this will be the first truly trackable Tesla. We shall see...

 

[GatorGuy]

Based on Elon’s comment about track performance and comparison to the M3, I was hopeful that this will be the first truly trackable Tesla. We shall see...

Unfortunately I have to agree with the people above that said the track Elon was referring to was the drag strip. There isn't any real way the P3D will be 15% faster around a road track than a M3.

Comparing 1/4 mile times to a M3 is really dumb in my opinion because no one thinks a M3 as king of the strip. M3s are fast but they aren't built for that.

I really hope that isn't what he was saying but I just don't see it as realistic otherwise.

 

[noicepls]

It doesn't matter how quickly the P3D accelerates to 60 mph or beyond. The question is, how fast does it come to a stop from 60 and beyond? I certainly wouldn't want to rear-end a F150 truck!

 

[JeffK]

It doesn't matter how quickly the P3D accelerates to 60 mph or beyond. The question is, how fast does it come to a stop from 60 and beyond? I certainly wouldn't want to rear-end a F150 truck!

You'll be fine against an F150, firetrucks though that's another story...

 

[juanmedina]

So you guys are thinking that Elon was just referring to the 1/4th mile track? If that's is the case I may just get the AWD version. I also may way until people get their cars and they get tested. will see.

 

[EinSV]

So you guys are thinking that Elon was just referring to the 1/4th mile track? If that's is the case I may just get the AWD version. I also may way until people get their cars and they get tested. will see.

My two cents: "15% quicker" refers to straight line acceleration. "Will beat anything in its class on the track" means it will beat the BMW M3 etc. at Laguna Seca, Nurburgring, etc. I look forward to seeing the videos.

 

[Lanzer]

I think the performance model does one more thing - which is to elevate the status of the 35000 dollar base model.

Tesla want consumers to compare their cars with the league of BMW and other top brands, and having an option that can compete or beat other brands' top offering will give the average consumer the impression that Mmodel 3 isn't about being low budget, but a smaller sibling of a top of the line performance vehicle. I think that message is more important than the extra revenue gained from the P model.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I think the performance model does one more thing - which is to elevate the status of the 35000 dollar base model.

Tesla want consumers to compare their cars with the league of BMW and other top brands, and having an option that can compete or beat other brands' top offering will give the average consumer the impression that Mmodel 3 isn't about being low budget, but a smaller sibling of a top of the line performance vehicle. I think that message is more important than the extra revenue gained from the P model.

All the evidence points to the Model 3P being all about extra revenue. It seems entirely plausible that it will be EXACTLY the same car as the AWD except for wheels, a binned rear motor, and a stick on spoiler. That's fine, Tesla needs the money and there are plenty of people who will pay for it just for the 0-60 time.

 

[Zaphod]

disappointed.....that I still can't place my order

 

[Uncle Paul]

Putting a spoiler on will not help any at a drag strip, probably slow it down.
Maybe he is talking about performance on a track.

Fastest, easiest, quickest way to improve a vehicle's track performance is with upgraded tires. Many vehicles have limited top speeds because the supplied tires would be beyond their ratings.

Next would be firmer and better controlled suspension. Linkage, Shocks, etc.

Then brakes. The faster you go into a corner, the better heat disapating brakes will be needed.

Lighter weight = faster around the track.

More power = faster out of the corners and down the straight. Better motors, or being able to increase usable output from the batteries..

Improved aero = higher top speed and quicker to get there.

Stronger chassis to reduce flex and make steering more precise.

Lots of things Tesla could do to make the Model 3 a better track performer.

Again, don't forget, some of the items they are working on for the New Roadster might be transferable to the Model 3.

With dual motors and computer control over the ABS brakes and each differential, the performance version could modulate power to each individual tire with the most traction going out of each curve. Would allow 100% of power to be put down, optimizing thrust out of every curve. Would make even an average driver a superstar.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Putting a spoiler on will not help any at a drag strip, probably slow it down.
Maybe he is talking about performance on a track.

Fastest, easiest, quickest way to improve a vehicle's track performance is with upgraded tires. Many vehicles have limited top speeds because the supplied tires would be beyond their ratings.

Next would be firmer and better controlled suspension. Linkage, Shocks, etc.

Then brakes. The faster you go into a corner, the better heat disapating brakes will be needed.

Lighter weight = faster around the track.

More power = faster out of the corners and down the straight. Better motors, or being able to increase usable output from the batteries..

Improved aero = higher top speed and quicker to get there.

Stronger chassis to reduce flex and make steering more precise.

Lots of things Tesla could do to make the Model 3 a better track performer.

Again, don't forget, some of the items they are working on for the New Roadster might be transferable to the Model 3.

With dual motors and computer control over the ABS brakes and each differential, the performance version could modulate power to each individual tire with the most traction going out of each curve. Would allow 100% of power to be put down, optimizing thrust out of every curve. Would make even an average driver a superstar.

Well a lip spoiler like that will only slow you down in that it will add a few ounces of weight. haha.
The question is, does the Performance Model 3 have any of those upgrades that you listed?
You're not putting 100% of the power down if you're using the brakes to transfer power from side to side. A track car needs a real limited slip differential. Every car in its class also has brake based limited slip on the base model and when you upgrade to the top of the line model they put in a clutch based or torsen differential.
The best solution for EVs is to use two rear motors like the new Roadster does.

 

[JeffK]

Well a lip spoiler like that will only slow you down in that it will add a few ounces of weight. haha.
The question is, does the Performance Model 3 have any of those upgrades that you listed?
You're not putting 100% of the power down if you're using the brakes to transfer power from side to side. A track car needs a real limited slip differential. Every car in its class also has brake based limited slip on the base model and when you upgrade to the top of the line model they put in a clutch based or torsen differential.
The best solution for EVs is to use two rear motors like the new Roadster does.

I'd take a nerfed three motor Roadster setup in a Model 3 body! Where do I sign?

 

[McRat]

Often small spoilers you see on cars are there to stop or reduce lift, not to apply downforce. It often is packaged with higher speed ratings for the tires, higher speed limiter, bigger brakes. This even applies to luxury cars sometimes when you order the bigger engine.

 

[bxr140]

0-60 alone doesn't have much to do with track performance since you only do 0-60 once on track, at the start.

0-60 means a LOT on a closed circuit track, but not in the literal sense that you describe. 0-60 (or 0-100, if you prefer units that aren’t back-assward) is simply a worldwide metric for acceleration; in a broader sense it is typically a pretty accurate measure of a car’s overall ability to accelerate.

 

[JeffK]

0-60 means a LOT on a closed circuit track, but not in the literal sense that you describe. 0-60 (or 0-100, if you prefer units that aren’t back-assward) is simply a worldwide metric for acceleration; in a broader sense it is typically a pretty accurate measure of a car’s overall ability to accelerate.

I think, also of importance, is the ability of a car to brake and turn...

 

[Daniel in SD]

0-60 means a LOT on a closed circuit track, but not in the literal sense that you describe. 0-60 (or 0-100, if you prefer units that aren’t back-assward) is simply a worldwide metric for acceleration; in a broader sense it is typically a pretty accurate measure of a car’s overall ability to accelerate.

0-60 is a horrible metric for acceleration on the track. Modern high power cars are traction limited for most or all of 0-60. Check out this lap of Laguna Seca:

The vast majority of the time is spent above 60mph. The slowest speed is 36mph.

 

[brianman]

Model S (Refuel 2017) 1:52.43 (I'm guessing this was probably not on stock tires)

stock Michelin tires from the factory

2017 REFUEL EV Race Sees New Track Records - HybridCars.com