Performance not getting 310 miles promised

[SleeperService]

As stated earlier in this thread, there is really no reason to guess about why this is happening. All you need to know is your Wh/mi for a given long trip and then you can plug into the equations and it will mostly make sense.

Chill mode will do nothing, of course. I am not sure why people suggest it; fairly sure there is no supporting evidence.

I could see chill mode making a difference if you are on low speed roads with lots of stops and you can't keep your foot out of the throttle. On the highway? Yeah, power needed to cruise at 80mph is power needed to cruise at 80 mph.

 

[pnlyee]

190 miles driven. 10% probably showing 28miles left.

So you dont have 20” wheels? Does that make so much differen in range?

Here is my data:

I have a Model 3 Performance with Performance Upgrade (ie. 20-inch wheels) and my driving is largely dictated by commuting in Los Angeles area freeway traffic (65-70 mph @ 5 a.m. and 35-40 @ 3 p.m.). Disclaimer: I don't drive aggressively during my commute since it is not worth it for me. I see many drivers do numerous lane changes only to be 1/4 to 1/2 mile ahead of me after 45 minutes of effort or high beaming since the car in front of them isn't going fast enough for them. I can live with the fact it will take me 2 additional minutes out of 45-50 to save a little energy, save wear and tear on tires and avoid road rage. Don't get me wrong, I like a fast car which is why I have a Performance.

For the first 10517 miles with the 20-inch OEM wheels, I consumed 2480 kWh. This translates to 235.8 Wh/mi. which is decent for a Model 3 Performance, but horrible compared to our Model 3 RWD LR.

Since I managed to damage one of the 20-inch wheels by running over a steel black dropped by the truck in front of me, I decided to go with 18x8.5 replacement wheels and the same Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires but in size 235/45R18 to give the wheels more protection from road hazards. It should be noted the 18-inch setup is now 11.4 lb lighter per wheel/tire. In the 957 miles with the new setup, I have consumed 210 kWh which translates in 219.4 Wh/mi. So to answer the question what effect 20-inch wheel have, the answer is ~7 percent. This is just an observation and not a scientific test by any means.

Onto to the question of whether the Model 3 will get the full rated mileage of 310. In my case the answer is yes based single day's use with significant mileage. I normally set the charging to 70%. It showed 223 miles range at the start. Over course of 10 hours including stops with use of Sentry, I drove 191 miles in typical LA traffic and AC was set to auto at 72F, I consumed 42 kWh which translates to 219.9 Wh/mi. At the end, the range showed 28 miles. This seems reasonable since 191 driven miles + 4 miles for Sentry + 28 remaining miles = 223 miles at the beginning. This shows I should get around 315-320 miles range on a 100%.

 

[Dommc]

Here is my data:

I have a Model 3 Performance with Performance Upgrade (ie. 20-inch wheels) and my driving is largely dictated by commuting in Los Angeles area freeway traffic (65-70 mph @ 5 a.m. and 35-40 @ 3 p.m.). Disclaimer: I don't drive aggressively during my commute since it is not worth it for me. I see many drivers do numerous lane changes only to be 1/4 to 1/2 mile ahead of me after 45 minutes of effort or high beaming since the car in front of them isn't going fast enough for them. I can live with the fact it will take me 2 additional minutes out of 45-50 to save a little energy, save wear and tear on tires and avoid road rage. Don't get me wrong, I like a fast car which is why I have a Performance.

For the first 10517 miles with the 20-inch OEM wheels, I consumed 2480 kWh. This translates to 235.8 Wh/mi. which is decent for a Model 3 Performance, but horrible compared to our Model 3 RWD LR.

Since I managed to damage one of the 20-inch wheels by running over a steel black dropped by the truck in front of me, I decided to go with 18x8.5 replacement wheels and the same Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires but in size 235/45R18 to give the wheels more protection from road hazards. It should be noted the 18-inch setup is now 11.4 lb lighter per wheel/tire. In the 957 miles with the new setup, I have consumed 210 kWh which translates in 219.4 Wh/mi. So to answer the question what effect 20-inch wheel have, the answer is ~7 percent. This is just an observation and not a scientific test by any means.

Onto to the question of whether the Model 3 will get the full rated mileage of 310. In my case the answer is yes based single day's use with significant mileage. I normally set the charging to 70%. It showed 223 miles range at the start. Over course of 10 hours including stops with use of Sentry, I drove 191 miles in typical LA traffic and AC was set to auto at 72F, I consumed 42 kWh which translates to 219.9 Wh/mi. At the end, the range showed 28 miles. This seems reasonable since 191 driven miles + 4 miles for Sentry + 28 remaining miles = 223 miles at the beginning. This shows I should get around 315-320 miles range on a 100%.

I'm very surprised that you managed just 235.8 Wh/mi for the first 10k miles on your performance model 3, I have just over 5k on my performance model 3 with 20 inch OEM wheels, I live in the SF bay area and have very similar commute as you but my power consumption is close to 300 Wh/mi since factory. I consider myself a normal driver and usually just keep up with the traffic.

Also I'm interested in learning more about your claim on changing from 20 inch performance wheels to 18 inch wheels, which brand did you go with? I don't think the OEM 18 will fit over the performance brakes

 

[pnlyee]

I'm very surprised that you managed just 235.8 Wh/mi for the first 10k miles on your performance model 3, I have just over 5k on my performance model 3 with 20 inch OEM wheels, I live in the SF bay area and have very similar commute as you but my power consumption is close to 300 Wh/mi since factory. I consider myself a normal driver and usually just keep up with the traffic.

Also I'm interested in learning more about your claim on changing from 20 inch performance wheels to 18 inch wheels, which brand did you go with? I don't think the OEM 18 will fit over the performance brakes

After having lived with a very early first generation Nissan LEAF (serial number 202) with severe battery degradation, I think I have learned energy management in driving EVs with miminal use of brakes by anticipating stops (let regen system do its work), gradual controlled acceleration and no sharp changes in direction scrubbing off momentum all while keeping up with normal traffic (typically number 2 lane on freeway, I leave the number 1 lane for those who are in a hurry). In other words, I drive as smoothly as I can while blending in.

My 18-inch wheels are from Signature Wheel (see their thread in this forum--they are in San Jose just south of you). Since they make each set to order, a customized Performance fit (64.1mm center bore with 70.1mm lip) is available. The OEM 18-inch wheels won't fit as far as I know. The OEM 18-inch wheels are also super heavy.

 

[MarcG]

I'm very surprised that you managed just 235.8 Wh/mi for the first 10k miles on your performance model 3, I have just over 5k on my performance model 3 with 20 inch OEM wheels, I live in the SF bay area and have very similar commute as you but my power consumption is close to 300 Wh/mi since factory. I consider myself a normal driver and usually just keep up with the traffic.

Also I'm interested in learning more about your claim on changing from 20 inch performance wheels to 18 inch wheels, which brand did you go with? I don't think the OEM 18 will fit over the performance brakes

Before I started tracking my 3P, the average consumption over my first 5k miles was around 340 Wh/mi. If I wanted good efficiency I would have gone with a LR RWD

 

[Dommc]

Before I started tracking my 3P, the average consumption over my first 5k miles was around 340 Wh/mi. If I wanted good efficiency I would have gone with a LR RWD

I'm not complaining about high consumption rate of my performance model 3, I have never compared the consumption rate with anyone as I just assumed performance models will always have above average consumption which is 250 wh/mi. I was pretty surprised by the number reported by pnlyee after he has drove the car for over 10k miles but achieved much lower than average consumption rate.

After having lived with a very early first generation Nissan LEAF (serial number 202) with severe battery degradation, I think I have learned energy management in driving EVs with miminal use of brakes by anticipating stops (let regen system do its work), gradual controlled acceleration and no sharp changes in direction scrubbing off momentum all while keeping up with normal traffic (typically number 2 lane on freeway, I leave the number 1 lane for those who are in a hurry). In other words, I drive as smoothly as I can while blending in.

My 18-inch wheels are from Signature Wheel (see their thread in this forum--they are in San Jose just south of you). Since they make each set to order, a customized Performance fit (64.1mm center bore with 70.1mm lip) is available. The OEM 18-inch wheels won't fit as far as I know. The OEM 18-inch wheels are also super heavy.

So driving habit really makes that much a difference? I think this is going to be very handy to know when you are going on long trips. Less charging time = less time spent on the road = more time to yourself.

 

[pnlyee]

I'm not complaining about high consumption rate of my performance model 3, I have never compared the consumption rate with anyone as I just assumed performance models will always have above average consumption which is 250 wh/mi. I was pretty surprised by the number reported by pnlyee after he has drove the car for over 10k miles but achieved much lower than average consumption rate.


So driving habit really makes that much a difference? I think this is going to be very handy to know when you are going on long trips. Less charging time = less time spent on the road = more time to yourself.

Driving habits (acceleration, braking and speed) and hills largely determine efficiency. Driving habits are controllable while hills are not.

Based upon informal testing among my Tesla Model 3 friends, we have found the more aggressive drivers get lower efficiency and less aggressive drivers tend to do better. We have swapped cars to see if it is car dependent. It turns out the Model 3s are extremely consistent. Regardless of which Model 3 Performance I drove I was largely able to get the same efficiency +/- 5%.

During my moments of insanity where I have driven very aggressively (switching lanes constantly and driving 75+ mph), my usage was somewhere around 275-280 Wh/mi. So it just goes to show, it takes more energy to go fast.

 

[pscarroll]

All I can say is I push my Tesla Model 3 Performance to the limit, I don't expect it to get 310 miles because of it. It's still gets 310 miles or practically near that range when I do rarely charge it to 100%. Guess I'm lucky.

 

[MarcG]

During my moments of insanity where I have driven very aggressively (switching lanes constantly and driving 75+ mph), my usage was somewhere around 275-280 Wh/mi. So it just goes to show, it takes more energy to go fast.

That’s still very good efficiency, I only see under 300 Wh/mi when driving on the freeway with no hard acceleration at all. My right foot must be much heavier than yours!

 

[Fousthvk]

That’s still very good efficiency, I only see under 300 Wh/mi when driving on the freeway with no hard acceleration at all. My right foot must be much heavier than yours!

Same. My lifetime average on my M3P is 297 (my wife drove it the first 34k miles) I regularly see 320wh/mi (it’s about 30-50 degrees in Indiana right now) I have never gotten 65-70mph 240wh/mi which is the rated number. I also have the 20” stock wheels with winter tires. Which will reduce range further. I’m likely to get 20” staggered setup with 8.5” up front and 10” in the back. Interested to see what that will do to range.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’m likely to get 20” staggered setup with 8.5” up front and 10” in the back. Interested to see what that will do to range.

It will make the range worse and degrade the handling.

 

[Vines]

I am really surprised anyone could get 240 wh/mi on the factory P4S tires on a M3P+. Even trying pretty hard I cant get that for any length of time at steady state driving, even when I tried other tires I couldn't manage that at 70 mph, let alone to average 235!

 

[ElectricIAC]

I am really surprised anyone could get 240 wh/mi on the factory P4S tires on a M3P+. Even trying pretty hard I cant get that for any length of time at steady state driving, even when I tried other tires I couldn't manage that at 70 mph, let alone to average 235!

I’ve done it but it takes a consistent tailwind to do so.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I am really surprised anyone could get 240 wh/mi on the factory P4S tires on a M3P+. Even trying pretty hard I cant get that for any length of time at steady state driving, even when I tried other tires I couldn't manage that at 70 mph, let alone to average 235!

For 2020, with 20" wheels, the new rated charging constant is ~265Wh/rmi (and the rated line is at 270Wh/mi). It seems that 100% is around 293 rated miles with that constant. It's possible the constant will drop slightly if Tesla aligns the number to the 299 rated mile rating from the EPA.

So if we were to retroactively apply that number to 2018/2019 3P+ vehicles, probably 270Wh/rmi or even 275Wh/rmi should have been the original EPA number.

 

[ElectricIAC]

For 2020, with 20" wheels, the new rated charging constant is ~265Wh/rmi (and the rated line is at 270Wh/mi). It seems that 100% is around 293 rated miles with that constant. It's possible the constant will drop slightly if Tesla aligns the number to the 299 rated mile rating from the EPA.

So if we were to retroactively apply that number to 2018/2019 3P+ vehicles, probably 270Wh/rmi or even 275Wh/rmi should have been the original EPA number.

I’m inclined to agree as there’s not really any significant material changes between the MY’s AFAIK.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I’m inclined to agree as there’s not really any significant material changes between the MY’s AFAIK.

Yes, probably no significant changes so far.

It may well just be software, but the efficiency has improved in the last two years (as per the results of the tests when comparing 2018 AWD to 2020 3P with 18" wheels, and also some Tesla statements advertising improvements in efficiency). That's why I said maybe originally it should have been a bit higher (270-275Wh/rmi) than the current ~265Wh/rmi, since presumably those underlying efficiency improvements apply regardless of the wheels in use.

 

[N54TT]

Same. My lifetime average on my M3P is 297 (my wife drove it the first 34k miles) I regularly see 320wh/mi (it’s about 30-50 degrees in Indiana right now) I have never gotten 65-70mph 240wh/mi which is the rated number. I also have the 20” stock wheels with winter tires. Which will reduce range further. I’m likely to get 20” staggered setup with 8.5” up front and 10” in the back. Interested to see what that will do to range.

It will make the range worse and degrade the handling.

Was big into the auto-x and HPDE events back in the day...Heavily modified integra and moderately modified wrx’s. Was fairly competitive locally, even in SM with my integra. I’m running vs forged 8.5/10 staggered setup. I have not noticed any degradation in handling with spirited drives on public roads. That being said if I were to get back into auto-x, I’d definitely get another squared setup. As far as efficiency. I was averaging mid-high 280 wh/mile on my staggered setup and mid 290 wh/mile on my stock 20’s. Essentially negligible if not slightly better with the staggered set.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I was averaging mid-high 280 wh/mile on my staggered setup and mid 290 wh/mile on my stock 20’s. Essentially negligible if not slightly better with the staggered set.

These things are hard to quantify accurately, but apples to apples (same weight wheels, exact same tire type, just wider tread width), the results should be worse.

As far as handling...yes, I think to get the car to rotate, more tire in the back is not really desirable especially for autocross. For public roads, of course it does not really matter. Not supposed to be rotating the car on public roads.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I’m still planning on going with the EV01+ 18” and finding a solid all season that can handle the wet well while keeping efficiency on point.

 

[MarcG]

I’m still planning on going with the EV01+ 18” and finding a solid all season that can handle the wet well while keeping efficiency on point.

I just did that with MXM4 tires for the winter, and efficiency is much better. With this setup, I was able to achieve 249Wh/mi in cold weather (close to freezing) on a highway averaging 64mph. Can't wait to see efficiency number in warmer weather.