Apparently you can purchase the boost if you don't have access to the upgrades section (on lease) - by submitting a service request and it is processed manually.
I’m not one of themRecap for those new to thread - I bought a 2021 P off inventory. Fremont car. Noticed a real issue on some cold nights/morning (6-11c ambient), when state of charge was below 60%. Felt sluggish. Reported to tesla who told me it was "within spec". Ended up going back and forth and it being booked into an SC. Came back to me with latest software. It was slightly improved but issues remained. I rejected the car and it's gone, but now Tesla are chasing me for excess mileage as they claim I used it too much before rejection. Go figure.
Anyway, had a long chat with Tesla techie and his view was:
Issues with P at lower states of charge combined with cold ambient temps are well known and widely reported.
Solution is "not easy".
The P has a larger battery than the LR as the motors require a higher peak power.
However the P has different battery chemistry and higher peak power cannot be sustained at lower states of charge.
A lower state of charge with high power demand causes "voltage sag" which can damage battery, software intervenes to limit peak power.
Combine this with a low temperature and battery goes into a protection mode which is why acceleration is drastically reduced.
Addition of heatpump which scavenges battery heat worsens it even further.
P battery chemistry means it actually needs more heat compared to LR to be able to efficiently release the extra power required.
LR doesn't suffer from same issues because peak power demand not as high, and chemistry different - his words were "more even"
P is not really suited to northern climates.
Made in China has same battery as Fremont P's. Don't expect a quick fix.
Lots of orders for P's in UK this year with the BiK changes. Expects there to be a lot of problems come next winter.
I don't know how true any of that is, and am just repeating his thoughts. His recommendation was:
LR max power is 324kw versus P max power of 377kw. (-53kw)
LR battery more stable and actually outperforms P battery.
Accel boost gives 37kw approx. Taking LR to 361kw. Battery can handle it.
Best option is an LR with accel boost. The difference in max power is just 15kw which is not noticeable once moving.
Only difference between LR and P acceleration mapping is that P has a larger peak power from standstill, so you get more of a punch from a launch, but otherwise once moving, there is no discernible difference between LR and P.
So he said... get an LR with boost and you actually have a car which can perform as a P without the issues of limited acceleration at low SoC and low temps, or at least a much more usable car.
Right now I'll go put my tin hat on for when all the P obsessionists turn up
I do see your frustration entirely. Tesla don’t advertise that your model might only perform in the warmer half of the year. If they had, I doubt you would have bought it. I would have argued the case just as you rightly have. As for excess mileage, Tesla can whistle Dixie.Very informative, thanks.Recap for those new to thread - I bought a 2021 P off inventory. Fremont car. Noticed a real issue on some cold nights/morning (6-11c ambient), when state of charge was below 60%. Felt sluggish. Reported to tesla who told me it was "within spec". Ended up going back and forth and it being booked into an SC. Came back to me with latest software. It was slightly improved but issues remained. I rejected the car and it's gone, but now Tesla are chasing me for excess mileage as they claim I used it too much before rejection. Go figure.
Anyway, had a long chat with Tesla techie and his view was:
Issues with P at lower states of charge combined with cold ambient temps are well known and widely reported.
Solution is "not easy".
The P has a larger battery than the LR as the motors require a higher peak power.
However the P has different battery chemistry and higher peak power cannot be sustained at lower states of charge.
A lower state of charge with high power demand causes "voltage sag" which can damage battery, software intervenes to limit peak power.
Combine this with a low temperature and battery goes into a protection mode which is why acceleration is drastically reduced.
Addition of heatpump which scavenges battery heat worsens it even further.
P battery chemistry means it actually needs more heat compared to LR to be able to efficiently release the extra power required.
LR doesn't suffer from same issues because peak power demand not as high, and chemistry different - his words were "more even"
P is not really suited to northern climates.
Made in China has same battery as Fremont P's. Don't expect a quick fix.
Lots of orders for P's in UK this year with the BiK changes. Expects there to be a lot of problems come next winter.
I don't know how true any of that is, and am just repeating his thoughts. His recommendation was:
LR max power is 324kw versus P max power of 377kw. (-53kw)
LR battery more stable and actually outperforms P battery.
Accel boost gives 37kw approx. Taking LR to 361kw. Battery can handle it.
Best option is an LR with accel boost. The difference in max power is just 15kw which is not noticeable once moving.
Only difference between LR and P acceleration mapping is that P has a larger peak power from standstill, so you get more of a punch from a launch, but otherwise once moving, there is no discernible difference between LR and P.
So he said... get an LR with boost and you actually have a car which can perform as a P without the issues of limited acceleration at low SoC and low temps, or at least a much more usable car.
Right now I'll go put my tin hat on for when all the P obsessionists turn up
Apparently you can purchase the boost if you don't have access to the upgrades section (on lease) - by submitting a service request and it is processed manually.
I think you'd have to be driving pretty mental, to overheat the brakes on public roads! - I like to drive quick but have only ever had brake fade on a Mk2 astra
I think the P brakes only have an extra inch of diameter, they are not cross drilled or vented? On the track certainly, but can't see it being a problem otherwise.
Pulling that stunt would be despicable to the point of severely damaging their reputation, I suspect (and hope).
What is the caveat with Track Day Mode? Does it invalidate warranties? Or is it the equivalent of M-mode or Sports Mode on other cars (tunes suspension, sharpens throttle and steering, and in this case, tunes the car vicariously through the battery?).
Thanks for the update, very interesting.Recap for those new to thread - I bought a 2021 P off inventory. Fremont car. Noticed a real issue on some cold nights/morning (6-11c ambient), when state of charge was below 60%. Felt sluggish. Reported to tesla who told me it was "within spec". Ended up going back and forth and it being booked into an SC. Came back to me with latest software. It was slightly improved but issues remained. I rejected the car and it's gone, but now Tesla are chasing me for excess mileage as they claim I used it too much before rejection. Go figure.
Anyway, had a long chat with Tesla techie and his view was:
Issues with P at lower states of charge combined with cold ambient temps are well known and widely reported.
Solution is "not easy".
The P has a larger battery than the LR as the motors require a higher peak power.
However the P has different battery chemistry and higher peak power cannot be sustained at lower states of charge.
A lower state of charge with high power demand causes "voltage sag" which can damage battery, software intervenes to limit peak power.
Combine this with a low temperature and battery goes into a protection mode which is why acceleration is drastically reduced.
Addition of heatpump which scavenges battery heat worsens it even further.
P battery chemistry means it actually needs more heat compared to LR to be able to efficiently release the extra power required.
LR doesn't suffer from same issues because peak power demand not as high, and chemistry different - his words were "more even"
P is not really suited to northern climates.
Made in China has same battery as Fremont P's. Don't expect a quick fix.
Lots of orders for P's in UK this year with the BiK changes. Expects there to be a lot of problems come next winter.
I don't know how true any of that is, and am just repeating his thoughts. His recommendation was:
LR max power is 324kw versus P max power of 377kw. (-53kw)
LR battery more stable and actually outperforms P battery.
Accel boost gives 37kw approx. Taking LR to 361kw. Battery can handle it.
Best option is an LR with accel boost. The difference in max power is just 15kw which is not noticeable once moving.
Only difference between LR and P acceleration mapping is that P has a larger peak power from standstill, so you get more of a punch from a launch, but otherwise once moving, there is no discernible difference between LR and P.
So he said... get an LR with boost and you actually have a car which can perform as a P without the issues of limited acceleration at low SoC and low temps, or at least a much more usable car.
Right now I'll go put my tin hat on for when all the P obsessionists turn up
Track mode is official Tesla software on the P and is the equivalent of sports mode or whatever in an ICE - no issue with warranty, etc.
personally if I had to make a choice, I’d rather take a hit on range than the degradation in performance. Of course I’m hoping that Tesla get their act together, if they haven’t already!
