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Performance of P85D with Ludicrous upgrade review
- Thread starter thimel
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Boy, I thought I posted that as a reply. At this point I would have to guess, but I think it was
@benjiejr
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
My battery is back and installed. Picked the car up yesterday. One of my rears is corded on the inside (20K miles, PSS using longer upper links) so I've not had a chance to beat on it yet 
Excellent. Looking forward to your review.My battery is back and installed. Picked the car up yesterday. One of my rears is corded on the inside (20K miles, PSS using longer upper links) so I've not had a chance to beat on it yet
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
MarcG
Active Member
My battery is back and installed. Picked the car up yesterday. One of my rears is corded on the inside (20K miles, PSS using longer upper links) so I've not had a chance to beat on it yet
So, did you get a new 90kWh pack, or your original 85kWh upgraded to Ludicrous?
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
My pack had a seal leak at one of the let off valves so it was sent back to Fremont for repair and upgrade to L. It just came back.
I got my upgraded P85D back earlier this week and I have to admit I am a bit surprised.
It may just be my "butt dyno" being different than others, but somehow I expected more from this upgrade, following all the glowing comments here.
I have to admit that I have only used Ludicrous without battery pre-heating and I can definitely feel the improved acceleration at highway speeds, but am less enthusiastic off the line and during 30-80 runs.
Especially in the latter scenario I notice less "head snapping" than others here described.
Am I the only one feeling this way or is the 0.2s difference the culprit?
It may just be my "butt dyno" being different than others, but somehow I expected more from this upgrade, following all the glowing comments here.
I have to admit that I have only used Ludicrous without battery pre-heating and I can definitely feel the improved acceleration at highway speeds, but am less enthusiastic off the line and during 30-80 runs.
Especially in the latter scenario I notice less "head snapping" than others here described.
Am I the only one feeling this way or is the 0.2s difference the culprit?
When you say "off the line", how far off the line are you going?
Off the line from 0 to 30mph, it's the same as Insane. Run it with the pedal matted from a 0-130 mph clip and l'm thinking that your opinion might change.
Try flooring it from a 35mph roll, and I'm also thinking that the result you get will be quite different from what you had when you stomped it from a 35mph roll when it was just Insane.
You might also try the emulator or "Performance Mode". That should let you toggle between what you had and what you have.
Edit: Oops, scratch the Performance Mode, "emulator" idea. The next car down the performance ladder our cars will emulate is the 90D.
I recall seeing from the Teslarati article a pic showing that that a P90D with Ludicrous could be made to emulate a P90D.
But our P85D Ludicrous cars offer the P90D as the next car down from "Max" in the Performance mode menu, and not the P85D.
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
There is no difference off the line. Difference is after 40 to 45 mph. 70-90 passing speed improves by 0.5 seconds. If you're not getting 70-90 passing speeds of 2.5 secnds at 90% charge then something is wrong. Even on a lower battery charge the the 70-90 is about 0.5 faster than insane when compared to the same SOC.
It's definitely worth 5 grand. But I don't see 10 grand.
Thus if I had a P90D, I doubt I'd spring for the 10 grand up charge to get it.
There is of course however no doubt that the Ludicrous retrofit gives the car performance capabilities that it did not have before.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Absolutely no doubt...
You would also pay a lot more in the ICE world for that type of a performance gain.
You would also pay a lot more in the ICE world for that type of a performance gain.
I hate to even think what one would "pay" in the ICE world for such improvement.
Notice I put the word "pay" in quotes.
That's because in addition to what one would "pay" in terms of the modifications necessary to obtain such an improvement, one would also "pay", the loss of a powertrain warranty.
An improvement like this in an ICE vehicle would let the manufacturer off the hook for any powertrain difficulties which came afterwards.
One would also likely "pay" loss of CARB compliance, and in California, they probably would not pass smog for such an improvement.
An improvement like this, or better put, an improvement which would allow this level of performance vs bone stock, in the ICE world, would require a change in the stock tune which would shoot your warranty right there if discovered. Furthermore it would possibly require a change in the stock air box, and possibly a change in the exhaust manifolds, i.e. long tube headers and a relocation or deletion of the catalytic converters. Either of which could cause your car to not pass smog.
Notice I put the word "pay" in quotes.
That's because in addition to what one would "pay" in terms of the modifications necessary to obtain such an improvement, one would also "pay", the loss of a powertrain warranty.
An improvement like this in an ICE vehicle would let the manufacturer off the hook for any powertrain difficulties which came afterwards.
One would also likely "pay" loss of CARB compliance, and in California, they probably would not pass smog for such an improvement.
An improvement like this, or better put, an improvement which would allow this level of performance vs bone stock, in the ICE world, would require a change in the stock tune which would shoot your warranty right there if discovered. Furthermore it would possibly require a change in the stock air box, and possibly a change in the exhaust manifolds, i.e. long tube headers and a relocation or deletion of the catalytic converters. Either of which could cause your car to not pass smog.
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Let's just keep it at "this is a good deal for factory upgrade". Lots of cars over the years have had cheap mods that could in some cases dramatically increase the power and even in those cases it didn't always automatically void the warranty.
The 300ZX Twin Turbos of the 90s (I've owned 3 of them) could easily increase power from 300 to 396 (flywheel and dyno proven) with a simple mode to raise boost from 9 to 14 psi and a fuel map change in the prom to add extra fuel for safety at the higher boost. The cost ranged from anywhere from $0 if you had the tuner knowledge yourself to a $400 if you were paying a reputable company like Jim Wolf Technologies. If you wanted more power than that, it became very expensive quickly because the first extra 100 ponies could be supported by the existing power train and fuel system, but after that you had to add larger injectors, larger turbos, intercoolers, exhaust, headers, etc. Above 600 fwhp, you'd have to add a transmission that could handle the power.
The supra already came with much larger injectors and with very little money, the stock power train could go from 300 to 450 hp. A few simple bolt ons brings that up to 500+. All dyno proven time and again.
Of course these would in theory void the warranty, but if you're just a stage one in these cars, you could return boost to stock and throw the stock eprom back in before bringing your broken car in for warranty work (not here to debate the ethics of that).
Thank you everyone for chiming in on my uneducated P85D "performance assessment".
Sorka's test results at highway speeds reflect my limited experience that the Ludicrous upgrade performs best at speed. The original P85D was almost anemic in this range and that has dramatically changed now.
All I wanted to say is that I wouldn't go as far as others who have stated that the upgrade made it a completely new car.
Granted, I haven't done any 0-130 mph runs, but the few - untimed - 30-90 mph runs have not been as brutal as I expected.
The bottom line from my perspective for anyone who is still undecided on whether or not to get the Ludicrous upgrade, since it is interestingly still available, is that if you are mostly looking for performance improvement at highway cruising speeds, the upgrade is $5k well spent.
However, if you expect a completely different car at all speeds, after reading some of the glowing remarks, you could potentially end up a bit disappointed. It's all about expectations after all!
Sorka's test results at highway speeds reflect my limited experience that the Ludicrous upgrade performs best at speed. The original P85D was almost anemic in this range and that has dramatically changed now.
All I wanted to say is that I wouldn't go as far as others who have stated that the upgrade made it a completely new car.
Granted, I haven't done any 0-130 mph runs, but the few - untimed - 30-90 mph runs have not been as brutal as I expected.
The bottom line from my perspective for anyone who is still undecided on whether or not to get the Ludicrous upgrade, since it is interestingly still available, is that if you are mostly looking for performance improvement at highway cruising speeds, the upgrade is $5k well spent.
However, if you expect a completely different car at all speeds, after reading some of the glowing remarks, you could potentially end up a bit disappointed. It's all about expectations after all!
And I won't debate the ethics of it either.
How about "this is a good deal for a performance upgrade, unless you want to jeopardize existing power train warranty coverage."
That should cover it.
You mention 90's era vehicles and EPROMs. This is 2016 and what you're describing today, going outside of a stock calibration, can be detected by many manufacturers, even if the car is flashed back to stock before bringing it back in following a mishap.
The bottom line here, is that anyone these days modifying a stock vehicle for performance, especially to the degree of improving 0-60 times by this level, is running a significant risk of having a power train warranty claim denied, and furthermore, now more than ever before, is at greater risk of having either the modification or evidence of it detected.
This isn't the 90's. And to be fair, the cars you're referring to are long since out of warranty.
But if we're talking today's vehicles, desiel or gasoline, (and presumably we are, and if we're not, then why stop at 90's era vehicles, why not bring up 60's era muscle cars too?) you mod them for power, you significantly risk having a power train warranty claim denied.
You are of course free to argue this if you wish. However it is my hope that anyone out there with a late model performance car, or truck, regardless of make or model, Duramax, Vette, Viper, Mustang, Hellcat, I don't care whether it's a renown tuner like Katech, Lingenfelter, you name it, (my background is in GM vehicles primarily) intending to modify it for performance, especially if it involves an alteration or alterations in the stock calibration, i.e. a tune, goes in knowing that doing so jeopardizes the factory power train warranty.
People have gone so far as swapping out entire ECMs to avoid detection and still been detected.
Now the Tuner may offer a limited warranty on his work. But good luck if you get caught in the middle between him and the manufacturer, one blaming the other for the mishap, should you have to make a claim.
The above said, on the chance that I have overlooked something here, perhaps you can point to the current vehicle which can have it's 0-60 performance improved from 3.1 seconds down to 2.9 seconds without risking significant portions of any existing warranty coverage.
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