Performance Upgrade Price Change!

[Glamisduner]

Yes of course I've used CC before. It's helpful for long road trips but I don't like relying on it. It is dangerous to be too reliant on such features. I'm also an engineer by trade and I have little to no trust in such technology to make the right decisions for me and to handle every edge case possible, let alone the immense number of bugs that surely plague early software. Just look at all the deaths caused by EAP/FSD so far.

No I think ill wait the ten or so years it will take to make the technology truly safe and stable. I feel like a better tester as it is. I don't need to be putting my life on the line for the mere convenience.

Besides, I love to drive. The feel of the tires gripping the road in a tight turn, that feeling you get when accelerating to max speed. Makes me smile.

If your relying on EAP your using it wrong. The only way to get TACC in a telsa is the EAP package. Plus you get summon which is nice for pulling out of tight spaces like my garage, and you get auto park which is actually pretty cool. Again you should not fully rely on any of these they are just driver assistance features not fully autonomous driving.... When you have your hands on the wheel you can still steer the car at any time which takes back full control. Its great on commutes and if you do have to change the radio station etc, it's an extra level of safety since no matter what you have to look away from the road for a second to do those things.

 

[caskater47]

I'm coming around to your point of view. This arbitrary stuff should be stopped while Tesla is young. $5K price swings are bad all around.

For me this is all about being a good corporate citizen. If you make a mistake step one is own up to it, step two is apologize, step three is take responsibility for your actions. They have accomplished step one. They've refused to do steps two and three.

If they want to survive they must learn to do steps two and three. Best they learn that now while they're still young and hungry or else the world will eat them for lunch when they decide to price swing on the real $35K model only two months being in production. At that point governments may decide to step in and really shake things up.

 

[kbecks13]

For me this is all about being a good corporate citizen. If you make a mistake step one is own up to it, step two is apologize, step three is take responsibility for your actions. They have accomplished step one. They've refused to do steps two and three.

Elon literally tweeted that he agreed the price reduction was too much too fast and would refund money, i'm not sure how you can say that?

 

[caskater47]

Elon literally tweeted that he agreed the price reduction was too much too fast and would refund money, i'm not sure how you can say that?

That was step one. Owning up to it. As evidenced by this entire thread the company itself had failed to live up to his word. At no point have they as a company apologized nor has Tesla, as a company, been able to create a standard and action plan for the response (step three). The company itself has been playing games with all of us, giving out contradictory information, fulfiing some requests while refusing others. How can you say they have genuinely applogized or taken responsibility? All we have are empty promises from the former chairman of the board via Twitter.

 

[MXWing]

What does Tesla contractually owe anyone? NOTHING
What should of Elon promised to anyone? NOTHING

Elon is comfortable around discussing AI and rockets. He's not comfortable being hounded by people.

Tesla/Elon put themselves in a lose, lose situation and I think they are trying to get themselves out of it.

They have:

1 - Collected data. Notate accounts that wanted to take advantage of Elon's offer. Wait for the official and final policy determination moving forward. Not write contradictory twitter statements every half hour.
2 - Determine the impacted class. Who got hit the hardest is those who gave Tesla $5,000 in real money.
3 - Offered to write REAL MONEY checks. The only other example we have seen to this scale is Apple sending credit to first iPhone buyers. STORE CREDIT. With Apple's margins, they actually made marginal revenue off those people they sent the store credit to.

The pendulum can swing too far in the other direction as well.

Let's look at the big picture:

Amount of people stressed about getting their car in 2018 vs Amount of people trying to shake Tesla down for perceived dollars owed?

Them spending any amount of time and money on this is grace.

 

[Roys3]

That was step one. Owning up to it. As evidenced by this entire thread the company itself had failed to live up to his word. At no point have they as a company apologized nor has Tesla, as a company, been able to create a standard and action plan for the response (step three). The company itself has been playing games with all of us, giving out contradictory information, fulfiing some requests while refusing others. How can you say they have genuinely applogized or taken responsibility? All we have are empty promises from the former chairman of the board via Twitter.

Exactly. And the early loyal customers are in effect the sales force for Tesla.
Messing with folks like that to the tune of $5K should have consequences. Corporate Tesla deserves a slap back - not the engineers, not the production folks, not the service techs - the pricing politicians and PR-types.
I felt slapped, and my contact attempts have been ignored. If they do that everyone, or even just some, that shows incapacity (at best) or defective corporate culture (at worst). Either way, it needs to be addressed and prevented from happening again.

 

[Roys3]

What does Tesla contractually owe anyone? NOTHING
What should of Elon promised to anyone? NOTHING

Elon is comfortable around discussing AI and rockets. He's not comfortable being hounded by people.

Tesla/Elon put themselves in a lose, lose situation and I think they are trying to get themselves out of it.

They have:

1 - Collected data. Notate accounts that wanted to take advantage of Elon's offer. Wait for the official and final policy determination moving forward. Not write contradictory twitter statements every half hour.
2 - Determine the impacted class. Who got hit the hardest is those who gave Tesla $5,000 in real money.
3 - Offered to write REAL MONEY checks. The only other example we have seen to this scale is Apple sending credit to first iPhone buyers. STORE CREDIT. With Apple's margins, they actually made marginal revenue off those people they sent the store credit to.

The pendulum can swing too far in the other direction as well.

Let's look at the big picture:

Amount of people stressed about getting their car in 2018 vs Amount of people trying to shake Tesla down for perceived dollars owed?

Them spending any amount of time and money on this is grace.

Thay have a chance here to prove once again they are better than the regular corporation. So far, not so good. Apple got slapped back by it's customers, but that was chump change compared to this. There are many ways to fix this. Here is an opportunity to shine or fall flat. The early loyal customers are not the enemy...

 

[MXWing]

Exactly. And the early loyal customers are in effect the sales force for Tesla.
Messing with folks like that to the tune of $5K should have consequences. Corporate Tesla deserves a slap back - not the engineers, not the production folks, not the service techs - the pricing politicians and PR-types.
I felt slapped, and my contact attempts have been ignored. If they do that everyone, or even just some, that shows incapacity (at best) or defective corporate culture (at worst). Either way, it needs to be addressed and prevented from happening again.

General Motors Cuts Price of Chevy Volt by $5,000

I wonder what the success rate of getting $5,000 back or free lifetime electricity from GM is?

 

[Roys3]

General Motors Cuts Price of Chevy Volt by $5,000

I wonder what the success rate of getting $5,000 back or free lifetime electricity from GM is?

Great! When Tesla brings out its $35K version, they can go head-to-head on price.

When Chevy brings out its competitive $70K Performance Version I will be glad to take the $5K hit for the sake of serious competition. (I'm also a Tesla shareholder, not just a customer and sales associate.) Until then, Tesla needs to quit "gifting" big breaks to newbies for no apparent reason. The top-of-the-line Model 3 has no competition.

 

[caskater47]

General Motors Cuts Price of Chevy Volt by $5,000

I wonder what the success rate of getting $5,000 back or free lifetime electricity from GM is?

I'm curious as to your opinion on the VW emissions scandal and why VW as a company, who owed customers absolutely nothing because they cheated government not the market, would started buying back any vehicle that was at fault? They didn't need to do that. They weren't under any obligation to help their customers get value out of a product that became worthless overnight for no fault of their own. But they did it anyway and lost billions in the process. So why would VW freely pay back their customers for a mistake the company made?

I'll tell you why. It's because it was the right thing to do. And in doing so they rebuilt trust in a brand that had been decimated.

Tesla would be wise to learn from their example here. Give us customers what we want, treat us with respect and show us that loyalty flows both ways.

 

[Nate977p]

General Motors Cuts Price of Chevy Volt by $5,000

I wonder what the success rate of getting $5,000 back or free lifetime electricity from GM is?

While I am not at the point yet of fully jumping into this fight (took me a week to read the thread ), I feel a bit point is missed here. To my knowledge, every other automaker runs on a model year system. You know that next year's model could change, big moderate updates 3-4 years, major 6-8 (unless you are Chrysler, then 15 years ). People can plan around that and the masses are expecting those time tables. On top of that, Tesla does not negotiate and make a big point about that. But to change pricing so drastically, not following and generally accepted practices, will cause big issues in the mainstream market.

 

[MXWing]

I'm curious as to your opinion on the VW emissions scandal and why VW as a company, who owed customers absolutely nothing because they cheated government not the market, would started buying back any vehicle that was at fault? They didn't need to do that. They weren't under any obligation to help their customers get value out of a product that became worthless overnight for no fault of their own. But they did it anyway and lost billions in the process. So why would VW freely pay back their customers for a mistake the company made?

I'll tell you why. It's because it was the right thing to do. And in doing so they rebuilt trust in a brand that had been decimated.

Tesla would be wise to learn from their example here. Give us customers what we want, treat us with respect and show us that loyalty flows both ways.

Tesla is guilty of being a DICK. Volkswagon is guilty of CRIMINAL CHARGES that include jail time.

VW didn't buy back at fault vehicles from the kindness of their hearts. It was part of a negotiated settlement to remove the vehicles from circulation either from buyback or repair.

I had an open mind as I didn't know much about it. Now given the truth, are you willing to change your position?

Volkswagen emissions scandal - Wikipedia

Volkswagen's deception was NEXT LEVEL while Elon is trying to accelerate sustainable transport. The two is not comparable.

How Volkswagen’s ‘Defeat Devices’ Worked

What do YOU think is reasonable for Tesla to do?

Bearing in mind the following:

@Nate977p - Elon already admitted he did "too much, too fast". At the end of the day, Tesla has to run their business how they see fit. They have MASSIVE debt payments they have to make. We see their quarterly results and we see how they price things on the website. We see nothing in between.

We are going to have to generally assume, they are a rational actor making rational decisions. If you read the whole thread, no one disagrees that Tesla messed up here. In fact, they could have made MORE per P model. Force PUP.. raise price by 2K. Yeah its going to upset people, but not 67 pages worth. They get 2K more per car, the mob doesn't get enough momentum to push Elon off twitter for a few days.

Tesla again, owes nothing to no one. They are offering a CASH credit in exchange for FUSC to those who bought PUP. And offering free supercharging to any P- buyers that didn't qualify otherwise.

What makes sense on a -macro- level.. not on a per consumer micro model?

 

[happyzod]

What does Tesla contractually owe anyone? NOTHING
What should of Elon promised to anyone? NOTHING

Elon is comfortable around discussing AI and rockets. He's not comfortable being hounded by people.

Tesla/Elon put themselves in a lose, lose situation and I think they are trying to get themselves out of it.

They have:

1 - Collected data. Notate accounts that wanted to take advantage of Elon's offer. Wait for the official and final policy determination moving forward. Not write contradictory twitter statements every half hour.
2 - Determine the impacted class. Who got hit the hardest is those who gave Tesla $5,000 in real money.
3 - Offered to write REAL MONEY checks. The only other example we have seen to this scale is Apple sending credit to first iPhone buyers. STORE CREDIT. With Apple's margins, they actually made marginal revenue off those people they sent the store credit to.

The pendulum can swing too far in the other direction as well.

Let's look at the big picture:

Amount of people stressed about getting their car in 2018 vs Amount of people trying to shake Tesla down for perceived dollars owed?

Them spending any amount of time and money on this is grace.

The main fact is this. Because they did spend time on this and because Elon Musk did tweet out about the refund, this has caused financial harm to many people. People took delivery of P3D- cars AFTER free PUP was announced because of Elon Musk's tweet about getting a refund or free lifetime supercharging. No one in their right mind would take delivery otherwise. You could cal lit the ultimate bait and switch, he did a good job of getting those last P3D- cars delivered without having to either lower the price or downgrade them to AWD models.

 

[Roys3]

The main fact is this. Because they did spend time on this and because Elon Musk did tweet out about the refund, this has caused financial harm to many people. People took delivery of P3D- cars AFTER free PUP was announced because of Elon Musk's tweet about getting a refund or free lifetime supercharging. No one in their right mind would take delivery otherwise. You could cal lit the ultimate bait and switch, he did a good job of getting those last P3D- cars delivered without having to either lower the price or downgrade them to AWD models.

Yeah, the minus (-) in P3D- is pretty pronounced now !
I have one, and when I first saw that free PUP giveaway - and that the P3D- was taken completely off the menu! - I immediately contacted Tesla (with the "Escalate this concern for executive review" box checked). The subject line was "WTF ?", but I explained my concern nicely and suggested a simple win/win solution: a) no $5K back, b) no after-the-fact PUP upgrade - c) just sign me up for the future self-driving capability as recompense. They finally responded - which surprised me because that was a first! The response was boilerplate corp.-speak. It stated that the P3D+ folks will be given the $5K rebate option, but I'm out of luck, "we hope you enjoy your car".
That's just my story. I'm sure there are many others... I can tell you that it sticks in my craw - and my Tesla salesmanship is far from what it used to be!

 

[caskater47]

The main fact is this. Because they did spend time on this and because Elon Musk did tweet out about the refund, this has caused financial harm to many people. People took delivery of P3D- cars AFTER free PUP was announced because of Elon Musk's tweet about getting a refund or free lifetime supercharging. No one in their right mind would take delivery otherwise. You could cal lit the ultimate bait and switch, he did a good job of getting those last P3D- cars delivered without having to either lower the price or downgrade them to AWD models.

Right. And so far we know from people's experience that early P3D- buyers who already have FUSC get nothing. Apparently taking a massive hit on the car value and gauranteed zero support in the future isn't enough to be considered a loss for people. Those buyers lost money too, arguably more than the PUP buyers, since our cars are essentially just AWD now. It would be near impossible to sell one used when the car is no longer considered a Performance car to Tesla. If this ultimately becomes true then I think that is criminal.

 

[MXWing]

about getting a refund or free lifetime supercharging.

To my knowledge, free supercharging is still on the table?

I stand corrected. 5,000 credit on something you never paid for seems a bit excessive.

 

[Roys3]

Right. And so far we know from people's experience that early P3D- buyers who already have FUSC get nothing. Apparently taking a massive hit on the car value and gauranteed zero support in the future isn't enough to be considered a loss for people. Those buyers lost money too, arguably more than the PUP buyers, since our cars are essentially just AWD now. It would be near impossible to sell one used when the car is no longer considered a Performance car to Tesla. If this ultimately becomes true then I think that is criminal.

Essentially correct what you say - but I'd say "bone-headed", not "criminal", for now. They can still undo their stupidity. Let's see how smart they are...

 

[outie]

Yeah, forget BBB - but as a shareholder and owner I want to know who at Tesla is throwing the darts at the price board.

Monkeys

 

[Perry]

To my knowledge, free supercharging is still on the table?

I stand corrected. 5,000 credit on something you never paid for seems a bit excessive.

That's the wrong way to look at it. The 5K credit is for the parts that we did not get that everybody else is now getting for the same price. They are the ones who valued those parts at 5K so we need that value back especially that going forward it looks like our cars will not be treated as performance. For example no Track Mode released to us yet while others paying the same price have gotten Track Mode already.

 

[Nate977p]

@Nate977p - Elon already admitted he did "too much, too fast". At the end of the day, Tesla has to run their business how they see fit. They have MASSIVE debt payments they have to make. We see their quarterly results and we see how they price things on the website. We see nothing in between.

We are going to have to generally assume, they are a rational actor making rational decisions. If you read the whole thread, no one disagrees that Tesla messed up here. In fact, they could have made MORE per P model. Force PUP.. raise price by 2K. Yeah its going to upset people, but not 67 pages worth. They get 2K more per car, the mob doesn't get enough momentum to push Elon off twitter for a few days.

Tesla again, owes nothing to no one. They are offering a CASH credit in exchange for FUSC to those who bought PUP. And offering free supercharging to any P- buyers that didn't qualify otherwise.

What makes sense on a -macro- level.. not on a per consumer micro model?

I totally understand they need to make debt payments, which is critical. The 2k I agree would have been nice. I also agree nothing is owed (P3D+ owner), but something should be done for Goodwill.

I am more concerned about long term here and how they go forward. They have to stop this. The general market assumes how car pricing and timelines work. They cannot have their cake and eat it too (no negotiation, but change pricing all the time). What they are doing with the pricing changes constantly is arguably worse than negotiating at a dealer. They have to stick to some schedule, even if it is different than market, but has to be constant.

Maybe they only do big changes quarterly? That still allows them to be agile and let's people have some confidence in buying.