Performance Upgrade Price Change!

[Glamisduner]

There's an undercurrent of entitlement creeping into this thread.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I put my $1,000 down in 2017 I didn't even know there would be a performance version of the car at the point I got to configure and buy it.

When I did configure the car, I didn't really know fully what hardware and software differences there were between the AWD, P3D- and P3D+ aside from the cosmetic things stated on the web site. At that point I made the choice to get what I considered the best car I could afford, and I wanted the one that looked great to me - 20" wheels and beautiful looking breaks, despite the obvious efficiency drop offs. Nearly 2 months after I configured, the free supercharging was announced. Bonus! Let's be honest here, we all had the choice whether to pull the trigger on what we knew, or wait. No one forced you to buy.

Not only that, but software upgrades since then have given me (for free) additional features I didn't know would be available when I bought the car.

Now after I purchased my car, one that I am very happy with, Tesla could have done almost anything. They could have announced another performance version with a HUD, or with a 100Kwh battery or in Fluorescent (baby) Orange or any number of other things I might have wished were available in June when I configured... and it would have been tough tits.

Instead, they drop the price for new customers (great for everyone, we all want more Model 3's on the road because that means more 3rd party accessories, parts, a more successful Tesla which keeps the future of our cars more certain) AND offer existing customers either $5k refund in exchange for the lifetime supercharging which most of us who ordered didn't even know we'd get.

It's quite staggering to me how this win/win situation for all of us, turned into a bitch-fest.

I still doubt p3d- cars will get 5k too which is why many people are still upset I think. If anyone actually gets 5k I don't think they will be upset.

I'm more upset that people on here don't understand why some of us are upset!

I think Elon should offer free autopilot until the end of the year so we can see how many people suddenly feel entitled that currently think 5k less for a car a week after delivery is no big deal.

If autopilot is free from now on no one would be mad right? Oh but wait, here's the kicker, if you did buy it you might get 5k back, but if you didn't buy it it's now 6k to 8k to upgrade. Free if you buy a new car for less money than the one you just received though thanks for waiting! Autopilot is also just software unlock although imo a much better value than the 11k I paid to go faster that is now still 6k.

It would be horrible for stock holders because then Tesla would only have made 6k in this software instead nstead of 11k...

 

[Xenius]

If you ordered a car with a price that you weren't willing to pay, that is YOUR CHOICE. I understand feeling miffed, but this talk of Tesla "****ing over" people is ridiculous. The AWD 3 supposedly is cheaper now than when I ordered, and I have no idea if I'm getting that better price. And guess what, if I do, great. If I don't? Then I'm still getting EXACTLY what I paid for.

Just be happy you can afford a Tesla at all. No wonder people rail on "the rich" all the time. Yikes.

 

[AWDtsla]

I still doubt p3d- cars will get 5k too which is why many people are still upset I think. If anyone actually gets 5k I don't think they will be upset.

I'm more upset that people on here don't understand why some of us are upset!

I think Elon should offer free autopilot until the end of the year so we can see how many people suddenly feel entitled that currently think 5k less for a car a week after delivery is no big deal.

If autopilot is free from now on no one would be mad right? Oh but wait, here's the kicker, if you did buy it you might get 5k back, but if you didn't buy it it's now 6k to 8k to upgrade. Free if you buy a new car for less money than the one you just received though thanks for waiting! Autopilot is also just software unlock although imo a much better value than the 11k I paid to go faster that is now still 6k.

It would be horrible for stock holders because then Tesla would only have made 6k in this software instead nstead of 11k...

Quit giving these guys ideas. Or maybe let them waste their money on lawyers. Don't know which one.

 

[Maximilien]

Hahaha, unless you are lawyer yourself, hiring lawyer for $5K refund is ridiculous. Too much too soon!

If you meet wrong ones, you may end up paying more to lawyers than you would receive from Tesla.

Just chill for a week or two and wait for Tesla's official statement. I don't think Tesla will ignore us. Give them some time.

 

[BYE FOSL]

In California we have small claims court for clams under $10,000. Lawyers aren’t even allowed. It is very cheap and easy.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

I still doubt p3d- cars will get 5k too which is why many people are still upset I think. If anyone actually gets 5k I don't think they will be upset.

I'm more upset that people on here don't understand why some of us are upset!

I can only speak for myself, but I do understand why people are upset, I just don't agree with the rationale they're providing (like any difference of opinion really). It's pretty arrogant to imply that the only reason someone doesn't agree with you is because they don't understand something properly.

I actually think there's a link between the blind faith and love for Tesla people profess (regardless of the facts) and how emotionally they react to something like this. Tesla isn't your friend. Elon is not your friend. This is a public company trying to survive in a hostile world against all the odds, and accountable to shareholders - and sometimes people will lose out when they make certain choices.

Were they supposed to say in June 2018 "hey buy this car, but we'll probably make it cheaper in the future" or are they supposed to constantly refund people when they lower prices or give people free stuff when they offer better specs? Apple just announced their new iPad (a few mins ago) and it blows the old one out of the water. Should they go and give all the 'early adopters' free upgrades for life? What about people who bought a few months ago (not within 30 days). They are SooL. Apple would not be a Trillion dollar company and they constantly have thngs away or tried to appease their customers. And neither will Tesla.

I think Elon should offer free autopilot until the end of the year so we can see how many people suddenly feel entitled that currently think 5k less for a car a week after delivery is no big deal.

If autopilot is free from now on no one would be mad right? Oh but wait, here's the kicker, if you did buy it you might get 5k back, but if you didn't buy it it's now 6k to 8k to upgrade. Free if you buy a new car for less money than the one you just received though thanks for waiting! Autopilot is also just software unlock although imo a much better value than the 11k I paid to go faster that is now still 6k.

It would be horrible for stock holders because then Tesla would only have made 6k in this software instead nstead of 11k...

That's a completely false equivalency the way you have written it - although at some point in the future, it's highly likely FSD will be a standard feature rather than a paid add-on. This ALWAYS happens with technology and especially cars. I remember when airbags were an option, when navigation was a (very expensive) option, when central locking, or keyless entry were options. They become standard over time eventually.

Some options on the Model 3 will be standard within the next few years, as other manufacturers add them as standards as well. EAP for sure one day.

It's funny that whenever people mention those early people who put their $1k down back in 2016 and STILL haven't got their $35k car (because it's not even available) the fanbois storm in and vote down the comment and make all kinds of excuses for Tesla... but when it comes to their wallet being affected, and Elon not personally sending them a check and an apology for making a great car even more affordable, they soon complain.

 

[goodlucktj]

I talked to Tesla yesterday and they told me P3D- owners will get the option of $5k or PUP install and that more info would be coming via email.

I hope the person you spoke to is right, but I suspect not - my call to this same number said the only confirmed candidates are those who have NOT received delivery of their P3D, and they're choosing between $5k off the price and FUSD. She did, however, remind me they work in a place where mandates come via Twitter and to sit tight.

Legally, they don't owe us a damn thing, and that suit would be laughed out of court, assuming you could find someone to even file it.

I'm still going to take my refund though, assuming they follow through.

I honestly feel like everyone in this forum should checkbox an 'I agree' alert regarding this quote before participating further in the thread. Can't we all agree no one has any 'real' legal action here? The situation sucks and majority of participants in this room fall somewhere in the 'salt' spectrum. If they throw a little 'early performance adopter' love our way, I'm happy with that. If not, I'll move on.

Regardless, I think it's time to just wait a bit and see what happens.

 

[MXWing]

In California we have small claims court for clams under $10,000. Lawyers aren’t even allowed. It is very cheap and easy.

So I’m not a lawyer but am curious about these possible Tesla defenses.

1.) There isn’t an actual tort because Tesla can adjust pricing and offers at will.

2.) While Elon made an offer it was under duress. Also under the influence of ambien, wine, teslaquila or the combination of all 3?

3.) That’s not the official Tesla account. Elon’s account is news and speculation?

 

[maxatv]

Anyone know which options to select calling Tesla to get the refund request in? I’ve searched online but haven’t found it, it’s probabky in these 40 pages but not in the first 10 i checked before giving up, thanks!

 

[Perry]

Anyone know which options to select calling Tesla to get the refund request in? I’ve searched online but haven’t found it, it’s probabky in these 40 pages but not in the first 10 i checked before giving up, thanks!

(877) 798-3752
Hit #2, and then #3 (the "question about your account" option)

 

[caskater47]

It really amazes me some of the responses here. This is supposed to be a community for us owners where we can support each other. Not just tear each other apart. So let's start trying to work towards that goal shall we?

I realize not all of you feel the same way as I do on how we've been treated. That's fine you don't have to. But we should all at least respect that there are a large number of us who genuinely feel misled and cheated. The reality is there was no way to make an accurate, informed, and reasonable buying decision when each of us made the purchase because Tesla did not give us all the information, they misled the public and let us think what we wanted to. They allowed us to speculate instead of clarifying. This is a major problem to me. Regardless of legality this is about Tesla being a good corporate citizen and I do not feel they were being that throughout this process. My experience with them personally has so far been extremely poor customer service.

Some of you have mentioned that we have no right to bitch because a deal is a deal and companies change prices all the time. I like the Apple analogy because it actually proves an interesting point. When Apple releases a new version of a product, its a full year later and as such has had a full year of market opportunity. If they drop the price, add new features, etc. they aren't under obligation to the first purchasers.

However, virtually every business that sells products to consumers whether that be Apple, Amazon, Target, etc. all have a price match gaurantee. This guarantee entitles a purchaser to a partial or full refund of a product within a certain time period (typically 30 days, 90 days if it's Costco). They often also offer the ability to swap a product for the newer counterpart within the same time period. This includes Apple. If Apple drops a new iPad and you just bought last year's model at full price a week ago, they will give you a partial refund or an upgrade. Why? Because that's what being a good corporate citizen is about. It's how you keep customers loyal. It's how you build good consumer relationships. That is the standard and it is not unreasonable as a consumer to expect companies to follow these examples.

So Tesla releases a brand new car less than two months ago. Then they suddenly drop the price, including a dubious $5k upgrade package, at base price. I say dubious because there was little solid information about the package until the car's hit the streets. Tesla misled their customers during pre-order with what was included. They let us think what we wanted, they never clarified, they never provided additional information in order to give customers a fighting chance at making a well informed decision. So all of us, P3D- and P3D+, made purchasing decisions based on that mis-information one way or another and we've all suffered from that failure.

There's yet another lens with which to view this problem. Anyone who opted not to buy the PUP did so because they felt it wasn't a real $5K value. They made a purchase decision based on a lack of information. Now that Tesla has dropped the price and included it they have essentially proven those people correct. If PUP truly has a $5K value then Tesla would not be so quick to get rid of it. Further, if PUP was of real value, they would have been much more clear in their prior messaging about what it is and what it isn't. But they didn't and they dropped the price. This tells me that PUP isn't a real value afterall, that I was right, and that they were probably planning on dropping the price all along. Again, this is bad corporate citizenship.

Therefore when you take these facts into account then I don't think it's unreasonable for many of us to be upset and for us to have a reasonable expectation of compensation for our trouble. While they may or may not be legally bound to a compensation offer to us, there is a very real and genuine market expectation that we will be provided one. As that is what most businesses do for their customers.

 

[juanmedina]

Patience....

 

[Wooloomooloo]

So I’m not a lawyer but am curious about these possible Tesla defenses.

1.) There isn’t an actual tort because Tesla can adjust pricing and offers at will.

2.) While Elon made an offer it was under duress. Also under the influence of ambien, wine, teslaquila or the combination of all 3?

3.) That’s not the official Tesla account. Elon’s account is news and speculation?

It's very unlikely there is any legal redress, because no one purchased a Model 3 P3D+ or P3D- based upon the promise of a refund or upgrade. Musk's retrospective musings on what people could be offered, so their delicate sensitivities are coddled, isn't the basis for legal action.

If someone could prove they made a financial decision based upon what he said, that could be grounds for a suit. Otherwise, nope.

 

[Jagwease]

It really amazes me some of the responses here. This is supposed to be a community for us owners where we can support each other. Not just tear each other apart. So let's start trying to work towards that goal shall we?

Have you met the internet?

 

[Wooloomooloo]

It really amazes me some of the responses here. This is supposed to be a community for us owners where we can support each other. Not just tear each other apart. So let's start trying to work towards that goal shall we?

I realize not all of you feel the same way as I do on how we've been treated. That's fine you don't have to. But we should all at least respect that there are a large number of us who genuinely feel misled and cheated. The reality is there was no way to make an accurate, informed, and reasonable buying decision when each of us made the purchase because Tesla did not give us all the information, they misled the public and let us think what we wanted to. They allowed us to speculate instead of clarifying. This is a major problem to me. Regardless of legality this is about Tesla being a good corporate citizen and I do not feel they were being that throughout this process. My experience with them personally has so far been extremely poor customer service.

My god, pull yourself together. You did not have to purchase the car. If you felt information was lacking, you should not have purchased the car. Where on earth is personal accountability and responsibility for decision making? No wonder this country is going down the shitter, people can't take responsibility for their actions. It reminds me of "Warning, this packet of peanuts may contain nuts"

What exactly did Tesla mislead you on? Future price reductions? Future inclusion of previously optional items? These are all NORMAL commercial practices.

Honestly, I think some of the points you've made prior to this post have been fairly reasonable, even if I don't fully agree, but this insane theme of "I couldn't help myself and my decisions are not my fault, and I should have been told everything before I did anything" is a freaking cultural disease, and no I cannot 'respect' that attitude.

 

[caskater47]

My god, pull yourself together. You did not have to purchase the car. If you felt information was lacking, you should not have purchased the car. Where on earth is personal accountability and responsibility for decision making? No wonder this country is going down the shitter, people can't take responsibility for their actions. It reminds me of "Warning, this packet of peanuts may contain nuts"

What exactly did Tesla mislead you on? Future price reductions? Future inclusion of previously optional items? These are all NORMAL commercial practices.

Honestly, I think some of the points you've made prior to this post have been fairly reasonable, even if I don't fully agree, but this insane theme of "I couldn't help myself and my decisions are not my fault, and I should have been told everything before I did anything" is a freaking cultural disease, and no I cannot 'respect' that attitude.

Thanks for keeping this conversation civil and not resorted to personal attacks and vitriol. </sarcasm>

I believe I've already covered at length what I feel I was misled about. Specifically, the marketing of PUP.

I take full responsibility of my decisions, thank you. Of course I didn't have to buy the car. I could have just waited for the dust to settle more. But then it I was under considerable pressure to make a purchase decision quickly as a I risked losing the FUSC offer, I was being constantly hounded regularly with phone calls and emails to buy. Or how about the simple fact that I waited nearly 3 full years for this car and at no point prior did I complain, whine or bitch about how long it was taking.

I made several attempts to work with Tesla and correct my mistake. I called and e-mailed my Delivery Specialists nearly every day for two weeks without a single response after I took delivery of the car. I was ready to return the car within days of me having received it. I was trying to be patient. So I waited for them to respond. But their lack of response made it too late for me to take action.

I think you should judge people less, listen more.

 

[Jtt777]

It's very unlikely there is any legal redress, because no one purchased a Model 3 P3D+ or P3D- based upon the promise of a refund or upgrade. Musk's retrospective musings on what people could be offered, so their delicate sensitivities are coddled, isn't the basis for legal action.

If someone could prove they made a financial decision based upon what he said, that could be grounds for a suit. Otherwise, nope.

I actually did. I took delivery on the promise of $5k refund on Saturday.

 

[MXWing]

It really amazes me some of the responses here. This is supposed to be a community for us owners where we can support each other. Not just tear each other apart. So let's start trying to work towards that goal shall we?

Yes, if you keep in mind that basically all support is thrown behind each individuals "motivated self interest". Fastest way to get hated in the investment forum is suggest anything that 1.) Cost Tesla money. 2.) Deny Elon is God.

I realize not all of you feel the same way as I do on how we've been treated. That's fine you don't have to. But we should all at least respect that there are a large number of us who genuinely feel misled and cheated.

The keyword is feel. I agree. I blasted Elon with memes and hashtags to try to signal that Tesla is NOT being cool. Suggesting compensation versus demanding compensation are two different things given legal standing.

Some of you have mentioned that we have no right to bitch because a deal is a deal and companies change prices all the time. I like the Apple analogy because it actually proves an interesting point. When Apple releases a new version of a product, its a full year later and as such has had a full year of market opportunity. If they drop the price, add new features, etc. they aren't under obligation to the first purchasers.

A phone is a disposal commodity, not a vehicle. I could exchange iPhones for the rest of my life for the cost of a Performance Model 3.

However, virtually every business that sells products to consumers whether that be Apple, Amazon, Target, etc. all have a price match gaurantee. This guarantee entitles a purchaser to a partial or full refund of a product within a certain time period (typically 30 days, 90 days if it's Costco). They often also offer the ability to swap a product for the newer counterpart within the same time period. This includes Apple. If Apple drops a new iPad and you just bought last year's model at full price a week ago, they will give you a partial refund or an upgrade. Why? Because that's what being a good corporate citizen is about. It's how you keep customers loyal. It's how you build good consumer relationships. That is the standard and it is not unreasonable as a consumer to expect companies to follow these examples.

Apple, Amazon, Target doesn't sell cars with price guarantees. Probably for good reason. If they did, the policies would change overnight for that class of product.

There's yet another lens with which to view this problem. Anyone who opted not to buy the PUP did so because they felt it wasn't a real $5K value. They made a purchase decision based on a lack of information. Now that Tesla has dropped the price and included it they have essentially proven those people correct. If PUP truly has a $5K value then Tesla would not be so quick to get rid of it. Further, if PUP was of real value, they would have been much more clear in their prior messaging about what it is and what it isn't. But they didn't and they dropped the price. This tells me that PUP isn't a real value afterall, that I was right, and that they were probably planning on dropping the price all along. Again, this is bad corporate citizenship.

Look at cost of Model S Spoiler. Also, performance brake kit, performance tires WITH FACTORY WARRANTY AND NO TINKERING AFTERMARKET is worth more than 0. $5,000 to some people.

Therefore when you take these facts into account then I don't think it's unreasonable for many of us to be upset and for us to have a reasonable expectation of compensation for our trouble. While they may or may not be legally bound to a compensation offer to us, there is a very real and genuine market expectation that we will be provided one. As that is what most businesses do for their customers.

Legally bound = no. Don't think this was ever in question. Did Musk muddle that with his tweeting? Perhaps, but the original move was completely legal.

Some people feel its reasonable to be upset. Some people feel it isn't reasonable to be upset. An issue with making exceptions is how far do you go and who is affected. While it may not be as obvious, AWD owners would ask can I get a P firmware for $6,000? How about RWD, my car is now valued less because a performance car is cheaper on the secondary market.

With nothing being clear cut, I've chosen to try to try and take what I feel is the most reasonable measure:

Tesla, while under no obligation to assist prior purchasers, would win a lot of goodwill if they can assuage their feelings of customers who feel punished for being enthusiastic early adopters.

 

[AWDtsla]

Thanks for keeping this conversation civil and not resorted to personal attacks and vitriol. </sarcasm>

I believe I've already covered at length what I feel I was misled about. Specifically, the marketing of PUP.

I take full responsibility of my decisions, thank you. Of course I didn't have to buy the car. I could have just waited for the dust to settle more. But then it I was under considerable pressure to make a purchase decision quickly as a I risked losing the FUSC offer, I was being constantly hounded regularly with phone calls and emails to buy. Or how about the simple fact that I waited nearly 3 full years for this car and at no point prior did I complain, whine or bitch about how long it was taking.

I made several attempts to work with Tesla and correct my mistake. I called and e-mailed my Delivery Specialists nearly every day for two weeks without a single response after I took delivery of the car. I was ready to return the car within days of me having received it. I was trying to be patient. So I waited for them to respond. But their lack of response made it too late for me to take action.

I think you should judge people less, listen more.

You may actually feel light you've been wronged, but it's your feelings that are wrong. I followed the pricing and options as closely as anybody else, ready to pounce on an order should I feel like it's the time. You have NO CASE.

 

[MXWing]

This whole thing is a *sugar* show. I understand this guys perspective.

Indian giver - Wikipedia

BTW there's no less offensive way to describe Musk's offer. LOL

https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-less-offensive-term-than-Indian-giver

1.) Free Ludicrous software unlock for pre price cut people.
2.) Charge $5,000 for the option for new purchases.

We cool, and we are done? What say you Tesla?