PG&E rolling blackouts during heatwave (Aug 14 2020 —> ?)

[SMAlset]

Sacramento Area where I live has been exploding with new housing and commercial building. I don’t understand how they can build all these new properties when it was only a few years ago where water was so scarce we weren’t even allowed to water our lawns. It’s not like they built desalination plants to increase water production... so what’s going to happen the next time we’re in a drought? Where’s the extra water going to come from to service the new housing neighborhoods and commercial buildings. Insane

Not only drinking water for residents and commercial and agricultural use but how about sources for fire fighting for all the wildfires we might anticipate due to drought and hot temps and winds? We had a major section of land get forced into full development instead of stepped construction just recently. Our City despite city planned phases was told we’ll sue you over this and city knew they would be using funds we didn’t have what with covid shutting down business and curtailing revenue. No “greater good” long-term principles in the works here that’s for sure.

 

[SMAlset]

To save you the trouble looking this up, here’s the Rotating Block Outages listed on PG&E’s website for today’s shutdowns:

 

[gpez]

No clue...is there an easy way for me to find that out (like one of the various API calls)?



That thought had crossed my mind, but I would have lost my AC (it's not backed up)...

It's interesting that the Powerwall gateway gives all this other information about the quality of our electrical power that I hadn't even thought of before.

Bruce.

Don't believe its exposed locally, Tesla support could probably tell you though. Also possible the installer password would let you see/configure it but that likely would require taking them "offline" for a bit.

I hear you on not losing the AC but 106v can't possibly be good for the compressor and motor...

 

[getakey]

looks like we escaped the blackouts. Scheduled for 6pm, but never happened. I believe same was true for those scheduled at 5pm

 

[RubberToe]

Big drop in demand around 1pm shown on the ISO site may have saved everyone. Not sure what caused the big drop.

RT

 

[ohmman]

Our power went out for 22 minutes, but it was unrelated to scheduled blackouts. I ran into an issue because of it, however. My AC was running during the outage, and when grid power dropped, it must have been too much for the PWs, so everything went down for about 30 seconds. When it came back up, I flipped the breakers on the HVAC air handler and condenser to ensure they wouldn't trip it again. However, my inverter wouldn't return solar into my batteries/house. The error was similar to @bmah's issue, but this time it was my internal voltage sagging, not grid voltage. I couldn't get it to work again, but then the power came back up. 22 minutes happens quickly when you're scrambling.

I have two questions after consideration of what happened. First, is it possible that the inverter was complaining because the PWs were full? I'm not sure I ever considered how the PWs curtail solar when they're full. Is it through some kind of voltage signal to the inverter? And second, if that's not the issue, what might the overdraw have done to my units to cause a sag in voltage? I plan to test everything once the weather stabilizes, but I did have a flash of dread when this occurred, thinking if I couldn't capture solar, I'd be in rough shape.

 

[gpez]

I have two questions after consideration of what happened. First, is it possible that the inverter was complaining because the PWs were full? I'm not sure I ever considered how the PWs curtail solar when they're full. Is it through some kind of voltage signal to the inverter? And second, if that's not the issue, what might the overdraw have done to my units to cause a sag in voltage? I plan to test everything once the weather stabilizes, but I did have a flash of dread when this occurred, thinking if I couldn't capture solar, I'd be in rough shape.

Increase in local frequency is how Powerwalls indicate to your inverters to shut down. Most modern inverters shut down at 60.5hz, older ones can vary up to 62hz.

 

[eevee-fan]

Meanwhile, negative energy prices north of Sac.

 

[180r]

We just got notice that the rolling blackouts will start soon. According to our number, we should get hit around 8 PM.

Update. Looks like we are Block 50 which should NOT be affected by a power shutoff.

Anyone with an outage number of 50 is exempt from shutoffs. Those include hospitals, police and fire stations, along with areas that were blacked out in the last round of rolling blackouts.

How to check if your house will lose power in a PG&E blackout

I’m also block 50. It’s explicitly mentioned not to block out. Is block 50 different than other blocks..?

Edit to add my own google search: “Anyone with an outage number of 50 is exempt from shutoffs. Those include hospitals, police and fire stations, along with areas that were blacked out in the last round of rolling blackouts.”

If this is true (essential service block, you could say) I’m guessing block 50 is immune from planned/administered blackouts ..?

If so, the rationale for getting PWs changes a little.

 

[SMAlset]

I think people might be misunderstanding the reference to Block 50. Block 50 has no “subsections” like the other Blocks do. Our account lists just “50”, no additional group numbers. The language does not say “Outage Block 50 will not have an outage”.

from PG&E’s website:

“Your outage block number is a combination of your outage block and sub outage block. For example: If your outage block is “2” and your sub outage block is “C” your complete outage block number is “2C.” Outage block "50" will not have a sub outage block.

I know the ABC7 website and the Mercury News make the statement Block 50 is exempt but I believe it was misinterpreted from the PG&E info posted above and on their website. As a rule for PG&E, hospitals and police stations are exempt. ABC7: Here's how to tell if your home will lose power as PG&E continues rolling blackouts
Mercury News: How to check if your house will lose power in a PG&E blackout

 

[180r]

Not very scientific but searching twitter for PG&E block 50 yields quite a few tweets mentioning police/fire/hospital shared circuit.

 

[ohmman]

Increase in local frequency is how Powerwalls indicate to your inverters to shut down. Most modern inverters shut down at 60.5hz, older ones can vary up to 62hz.

That's what it was, then, more than likely. I'll double check later this week. Very much appreciated!

 

[SMAlset]

A number of local SF Bay area wildfires putting smoke into the air. Both north of SF and south of bay down to Santa Cruz. Hits you in the face when you opened the front door. We’re South of San Jose and it’s pretty bad here. No real wind to push smoke out. Concern for people needing to be outside including Energy installers. We still have one more day for our install (on Friday) and wondering if it will go as planned or postponed. No doubt with evacuations and heavy smoke, installs will be affected and trickle down to affect others further down the install scheduling. No idea what the smoke all over this area will do to power supplies (suspect affect solar) but maybe the smoke coverage will lower temps from their projected highs.

My morning sky:

 

[ohmman]

I took this photo yesterday afternoon. Hennessey Fire complex in Napa (looking across the Mayacamas from Sonoma).

 

[woferry]

w.r.t. disconnecting from the grid...

That thought had crossed my mind, but I would have lost my AC (it's not backed up)...

I just wanted to note that you can throw the Gateway breaker instead of the main breaker. That way the AC would remain powered so long as the grid remains up, but the rest of the house would come from your PW(s). This is what I did during simulated grid outage testing, so that my grid-side solar inverter could still provide power to the grid rather than simply go dark, while testing-out the GW/PW behavior with the grid down (which it senses at the GW's transfer switch, so just turning off the breaker that feeds the GW was sufficient).

To save you the trouble looking this up, here’s the Rotating Block Outages listed on PG&E’s website for today’s shutdowns:

Where did you find that?!?! I've been so frustrated with PG&E's website, I didn't need to find out what my block number is, I was here for the rolling blackouts 20 years ago, so I'm well aware of what my block number is. But I could never find out which blocks they were expecting to cut when, so knowing my block number was useless. And even the new page linked on this thread only seems to help you find your block number, not when your block is up in the rotation.

 

[aesculus]

Where did you find that?!?! I've been so frustrated with PG&E's website,

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/instant/lookup/index.html?appid=04b7c901f2ff468daed74df54396d75e

 

[miimura]

w.r.t. disconnecting from the grid...



I just wanted to note that you can throw the Gateway breaker instead of the main breaker. That way the AC would remain powered so long as the grid remains up, but the rest of the house would come from your PW(s). This is what I did during simulated grid outage testing, so that my grid-side solar inverter could still provide power to the grid rather than simply go dark, while testing-out the GW/PW behavior with the grid down (which it senses at the GW's transfer switch, so just turning off the breaker that feeds the GW was sufficient).



Where did you find that?!?! I've been so frustrated with PG&E's website, I didn't need to find out what my block number is, I was here for the rolling blackouts 20 years ago, so I'm well aware of what my block number is. But I could never find out which blocks they were expecting to cut when, so knowing my block number was useless. And even the new page linked on this thread only seems to help you find your block number, not when your block is up in the rotation.

My system gets confused by the consumption outside the Gateway when I do that kind of test. The reason is that my Grid CTs were relocated to the conductors between the main breaker and the main panel. My Gateway is fed by a 125A breaker in the main panel. I can turn off that breaker to cut grid power to the Gateway only. I have no breaker(s) in my Gateway.

The upcoming block numbers are indicated on this page: August 2020 record heatwave rotating outages

If there are no CA-ISO events, the table of upcoming blocks may not be present.

 

[woferry]

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/instant/lookup/index.html?appid=04b7c901f2ff468daed74df54396d75e

No, that's exactly the page I was complaining about. I already know my outage block number, so I don't need anything to tell me that. But where on that page does it say which blocks are next to receive rolling blackouts? Am I just missing it?

My system gets confused by the consumption outside the Gateway when I do that kind of test. The reason is that my Grid CTs were relocated to the conductors between the main breaker and the main panel. My Gateway is fed by a 125A breaker in the main panel. I can turn off that breaker to cut grid power to the Gateway only. I have no breaker(s) in my Gateway.

My house has a combined meter/service panel, though the only breakers left in that panel are the GW breaker and one inverter breaker. I have no breakers in my Gateway, either. But the Grid CT is in the meter/service panel, so that it can measure what's coming from the GW plus what's coming from the 'outside' inverter to get the real grid value. When doing my extended testing I did remove the grid-side solar wires from both the Grid CT and Solar CT, since I was getting funny readings in the app (but proper GW behavior) with that inverter still looped through the CTs.

So yeah, throwing anything other than the main breaker may also suggest/require tweaking the CT loops a bit to continue to get accurate app readings. That does make it more complicated since you have to go inside the panel, and be comfortable with/understand the CT wiring.

The upcoming block numbers are indicated on this page: August 2020 record heatwave rotating outages

If there are no CA-ISO events, the table of upcoming blocks may not be present.

THANK YOU! Every time I went to that page there were no indications of any affected blocks. But I do see two listed right now, so I finally see where that data is presented. Sucks that you have to know exactly when to look to find it, though, seems like they could at least indicate when you may be on-deck, kinda like how most places handle jury selection pools (in this range check back later today, in this range you don't have to check again until tomorrow).

 

[bmah]

I just wanted to note that you can throw the Gateway breaker instead of the main breaker. That way the AC would remain powered so long as the grid remains up, but the rest of the house would come from your PW(s). This is what I did during simulated grid outage testing, so that my grid-side solar inverter could still provide power to the grid rather than simply go dark, while testing-out the GW/PW behavior with the grid down (which it senses at the GW's transfer switch, so just turning off the breaker that feeds the GW was sufficient)..

Thanks, that's a good point. Can't say I'm real anxious to need to use it, but that might be worth a test.

Bruce.

 

[jboy210]

I’m also block 50. It’s explicitly mentioned not to block out. Is block 50 different than other blocks..?

Edit to add my own google search: “Anyone with an outage number of 50 is exempt from shutoffs. Those include hospitals, police and fire stations, along with areas that were blacked out in the last round of rolling blackouts.”

If this is true (essential service block, you could say) I’m guessing block 50 is immune from planned/administered blackouts ..?

If so, the rationale for getting PWs changes a little.

We have not had Cal ISO directed blacks-out for over a decade. And you still have to worry about Public Safety Power Shutoffs. If it was windier we would have many of those now. And those can go for days since they are determined by weather, not human power consumption. We had 4 days last year. Can't wait to see how many days this Fall.