Phone as Key Issues

[hugh_jassol]

Are you sure that, if I lock the car with the key card and the phone inside, the proximity of the phone won't allow someone to just open the car? I'm not sure I'd trust that. But thanks to both Mike and Hugh for explaining those other BT "devices." Note that I'm seeing them as "connected" even when "My Tesla" is shown as disconnected. But next time I park and walk farther away than my house is from the garage, I'll check.

Best thing to do - just try it. Lock your phone in the car and then try to open it. The other thing you can do is use airplane mode when you leave the phone in the car - you aren't going to forget to turn that off.

The "My Tesla" is the music/phone bluetooth connection which is separate from the phone-as-a-key beacons (which are BTLE - Bluetooth low energy beacons). For example you can pair your phone as a key and not pair it for music/calls and vice versa - they are separate systems and separate pairings. And the phone/calls one is only connected when the car is "on" (i.e., you've sat in the seat and put your foot on the brake)

 

[daniel]

Best thing to do - just try it. Lock your phone in the car and then try to open it. The other thing you can do is use airplane mode when you leave the phone in the car - you aren't going to forget to turn that off.

Yes, I will forget to turn Airplane Mode off, and then I won't get my phone calls. I always turn the phone ringer off when I take a nap during the day. Sometimes, later when I go to bed for the night, I realize I forgot to turn the ringer back on when I got up from my nap.

The "My Tesla" is the music/phone bluetooth connection which is separate from the phone-as-a-key beacons (which are BTLE - Bluetooth low energy beacons). For example you can pair your phone as a key and not pair it for music/calls and vice versa - they are separate systems and separate pairings. And the phone/calls one is only connected when the car is "on" (i.e., you've sat in the seat and put your foot on the brake)

So walk-away lock happens while the BT is still in range? Because when I leave my car and go into the house, the car beeps and locks. But those alphabet-soup "devices" are still connected.

 

[hugh_jassol]

Yes, I will forget to turn Airplane Mode off, and then I won't get my phone calls. I always turn the phone ringer off when I take a nap during the day. Sometimes, later when I go to bed for the night, I realize I forgot to turn the ringer back on when I got up from my nap.

Ok so, no offense intended here, but this isn't really a Tesla issue...

So walk-away lock happens while the BT is still in range? Because when I leave my car and go into the house, the car beeps and locks. But those alphabet-soup "devices" are still connected.

Yes, part of the BLE spec is it does ranging as well, so in other words, it knows how far away your phone is from the receivers. So even though your phone in in range, the car knows you are farther away than a few feet.

 

[diamond.g]

I think walk away lock is timed based on when the last door closes. Otherwise it shouldn’t lock while standing right next to car, and at least mine does.

 

[hugh_jassol]

I think walk away lock is timed based on when the last door closes. Otherwise it shouldn’t lock while standing right next to car, and at least mine does.

Can't be that, otherwise if you opened your door, got in, closed the door and never touched the break, it would lock.

The car knows when you are inside vs outside. Just like it won't walk-away lock if you leave the phone in the car

 

[daniel]

The car knows when you're in it because of your weight on the seat, I think. It won't lock when you leave the phone in the car because the phone is still in range. But I worry that even if it will lock with the key card when the phone is in the car and BT is on, that it might not be consistent enough: maybe one time it requires the key car to get back in, and another time it does not. Because its behavior in normal use is erratic. The same exact phone works today and then doesn't work tomorrow morning but works again in the afternoon.

My forgetting to turn BT on or off is not Tesla's fault or problem. What is Tesla's fault and problem is that BT is unreliable, working so well for so long that you rely on it and forget to keep the key card with you, and then fails just when you need it.

Tesla should have issued both a proximity fob (for no extra cost) and the app, for those who want that, and for its functionality.

Thanks for the explanation of the proximity sensor.

 

[hugh_jassol]

The car knows when you're in it because of your weight on the seat, I think.

Here's how to convince yourself this is not true:
- With the car locked, put your phone on the ground just beside your car door (like a foot away)
- Pull the handle to open the door (it will open because the phone is close enough)
- Leave the phone on the ground where it was and get in and try to drive

It will not because the phone is not IN the car, but it is most certainly still is in range.

What the car will not let you do without weight on the seat is shift into drive or reverse.

But I worry that even if it will lock with the key card when the phone is in the car and BT is on, that it might not be consistent enough: maybe one time it requires the key car to get back in, and another time it does not.

Well, this is just an unfounded fear. It's easy enough to test, so I don't know why you don't try it. Do you think that sometimes even though you lock the door to your house that if someone tries to turn the knob it just might open anyway? Of course not. You lock the door, jiggle the knob to know it's locked and leave.

What is Tesla's fault and problem is that BT is unreliable, working so well for so long that you rely on it and forget to keep the key card with you, and then fails just when you need it

But you say it's unreliable because you forget to turn it on? I've had my car 6 months and phone-as-a-key has never failed. I never turn bluetooth off or put my phone in airplane mode (unless I am in an airplane). This is where I think you are overthinking things. Just leave it on and don't worry about it.

Also, Tesla has always stated that you should always carry the card key as a backup in case something happens like your phone battery dies. From the Owner's manual, p8 under "Key Card":

Caution: Always carry your key card with you in your purse or wallet to use as a backup in case your authenticated phone has a dead battery, or is lost or stolen.

 

[crackers8199]

I think walk away lock is timed based on when the last door closes. Otherwise it shouldn’t lock while standing right next to car, and at least mine does.

it's definitely not timed, otherwise i wouldn't be having the issues i'm having with walk away lock. it definitely tries to figure out whether or not you're still inside the car.

 

[daniel]

Well, this is just an unfounded fear. It's easy enough to test, so I don't know why you don't try it. Do you think that sometimes even though you lock the door to your house that if someone tries to turn the knob it just might open anyway? Of course not. You lock the door, jiggle the knob to know it's locked and leave.

I've never had my house door fail to act as expected. My phone has been working lately, but I have MANY times had my phone fail to work, and not because I didn't have BT on. That was really just a side remark.

But you say it's unreliable because you forget to turn it on? I've had my car 6 months and phone-as-a-key has never failed.

No. I said that once or twice I forgot to turn it on. It has failed to operate for undetermined reasons on many occasions, and then started working again later without my having done anything different. And there are many people who have reported the same right here on TMC. The phone key works perfectly for many people. It fails to work for many people. Conclusion: It is not reliable.

Also, Tesla has always stated that you should always carry the card key as a backup in case something happens like your phone battery dies.

And probably because they realized that they'd messed up big time and committed themselves to an unreliable system.

Here's the thing:

When I had the Prius I could not start the car unless I had the fob. And the fob never failed. And if the fob battery dies, the fob has within itself the ability to unlock the car and drive it. You can't even lock the fob in the car. Plenty of times I forgot the fob. But the car would not run without it so I had to go back for it.

With the Tesla, you can drive away without your back-up key card because it's not needed. But the phone is wonky and can decide after you've driven somewhere and parked that it won't allow you back into the car. This has happened to me: Using the phone I unlocked and drove my car to the store. When I came out of the store the car demanded the key card. Luckily, I had it. I had not turned BT off or changed anything else about the phone. Have you never forgotten anything in your life? If the phone fails on a day when you forgot the key card, you are screwed.

 

[diamond.g]

it's definitely not timed, otherwise i wouldn't be having the issues i'm having with walk away lock. it definitely tries to figure out whether or not you're still inside the car.

Yeah it is weird we all have our cars react differently.

 

[nachobel]

I was washing my car yesterday and my phone was inside with all the doors closed. The car didn’t lock. Yesterday I was standing next to my car touching it and talking about features (phone in my pocket). Car locked.

Car can definitely tell when the phone is inside vs outside. If I had to guess I’d say it has at least two but possibly three BT receivers and uses TDOA or something similar to triangulate.

 

[daniel]

I posted a while back when shutting off BT caused the car to lock when I got out, presumably because it could not "see" the phone so thought it was out of range.

Did exactly the same thing today (only difference was this time I didn't forget to take the key card with me) but this time the car did not lock.

Just mentioning this to point out that the car's behavior with regard to BT and locking/unlocking is at times inconsistent.

 

[Tschneid]

We took delivery of a new Model 3 yesterday. We had no problem connecting both of our iPhones up as "keys" to accommodate keyless entry and start.

Overall, the functionality seemed great, until we realized the app always needs to be running and then this morning my wife's phone/app showed "disconnected" under the "Phone as a key" setting in the app and it stopped working as a key. This wouldn't be a huge deal, except the "card keys" really suck. The card keys are like going back in time to a physical car key, except these card keys are hard to hold, easy to lose, and try opening the door with one in your hand and a bag of groceries in another with the funky handles. I'd pay another $1000 for a regular old keyfob with basic remote.

On the "phone as a key" disconnect issue. We tried everything to resolve with Tesla. Checked versions of iOS. Rebooted the console. deleted the app and re-added the app. Unpaired the phone from the car (forget/forget). We were able to get it back to a point to set it up again, but when we tried to setup again, it fails every time with "unable to connect to your vehicle", which is ironic, because the same exact app at the same time on the same phone can honk the horn, blink the lights, and do everything else "connecting to the car", except set-up "phone as key". An hour later with Tesla and all we got was a logged issue.

Any other new owners have issues with "Phone as Key" disconnecting and/or unable to set up?

On firmware 81. - 48.15

Frustrating...I got my M3 2 days ago and no issues for me thus far with an iPhone X....you know that you can buy a fob for M3, right?

 

[N5329K]

Serious question: have phone-as-key problems tailed off (as reflected by relatively fewer entries in this string)? Or have people just acquiesced to living with a glitchy system that works sometimes and not others?
Thanks,
Robin

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Serious question: have phone-as-key problems tailed off (as reflected by relatively fewer entries in this string)? Or have people just acquiesced to living with a glitchy system that works sometimes and not others?
Thanks,
Robin

Answer D: All of the above.

As time goes by, many will not bother to keep complaining if the situation doesn't improve. They may not even bother to report it's improved, just never returning to the thread. Also, as time goes by, fewer and fewer new owners are TMC members and thus most of the issues would be reflected in the earlier adopters. And of course, some people just have newer phones to begin with, or have bought newer phones since then (as I have done recently, which solved my problems completely)...

I don't think there's a realistic way to get an accurate assessment of how many people have issues ...

 

[daniel]

On Friday I had a doctor's appointment (to get the results of some routine tests; got a clean bill of health). Since I'm a bit wary of walk-away lock, I locked the car with the key card before going inside. When I came out with the phone in my pocket, the car would not unlock and I had to use the key card. Then I went to a store. Again, I locked the car with the key card. When I came back out, the car recognized my phone and I was able to get in without using the key card. Nothing changed. One time the car demanded the key card, one time it did not, all on the same day within about a half an hour of each other. On other occasions I've allowed the car to lock itself on walk-away and when I got back it demanded the key card.

iPhone SE running the latest version of iOS.

 

[srs5694]

Serious question: have phone-as-key problems tailed off (as reflected by relatively fewer entries in this string)? Or have people just acquiesced to living with a glitchy system that works sometimes and not others?

For the reasons that @BioSehnsucht outlined, it's hard to judge that. One exception is that a number of people, myself included, have reported notable improvements in phone-as-key functionality when upgrading from Android 8.x ("Oreo") to Android 9 ("Pie"), even when not changing the phone hardware. Thus, as a practical matter, if you're still running Android 8.x, upgrading to Android 9 ASAP is advisable. Unfortunately, most people can't do this on a whim; it's usually necessary to wait until the device's manufacturer releases an updated firmware to upgrade. Manufacturers are often slow to do this, and they won't do it at all for older and/or cheaper phones. In some cases, users can install a third-party open-source version of Android, like LineageOS, but that path requires some technical expertise; and as noted in this thread, many LineageOS builds seem to be affected by a Bluetooth phone calling bug. Thus, upgrading from Android 8.x to Android 9 may be more easily done by replacing a phone.

If you're in the market for a new phone anyhow, I'd have to recommend either an iPhone or something that comes with Android 9 pre-installed (or at least, with a manufacturer Android 9 upgrade already released). If you own a Tesla Model 3, buying a new phone with Android 8.x is not a good idea, IMHO, unless perhaps you're certain that the specific model you're considering works well with the Tesla phone-as-key feature. (The reliability of that feature seems to vary from one model to another, not just from one Android version to another.)

 

[SilentOne]

With the Tesla, you can drive away without your back-up key card because it's not needed. But the phone is wonky and can decide after you've driven somewhere and parked that it won't allow you back into the car. This has happened to me: Using the phone I unlocked and drove my car to the store. When I came out of the store the car demanded the key card. Luckily, I had it. I had not turned BT off or changed anything else about the phone. Have you never forgotten anything in your life? If the phone fails on a day when you forgot the key card, you are screwed.

Couldn't you just go to the app and remotely unlock/start the model 3 without using BT/phone-as-key? I got my model 3 Saturday so I haven't tried this yet, but I have forgotten my keys to my Model S and I can open the app and unlock/start it and drive without the key. My model S doesn't have the phone-as-key system.

 

[N5329K]

Interesting information. I use an iPhone 4 that does everything I need it to do, though likely wouldn’t play well with a Model 3. Just dropped it onto granite up above Yosemite Valley this week, and the back is a bit spiderwebbed, so a new phone might be in my future anyway.
Thanks,
Robin

 

[srs5694]

Couldn't you just go to the app and remotely unlock/start the model 3 without using BT/phone-as-key?

Not if the phone is dead (crashed and won't reboot, battery is dead, etc.).