Picking a fight with HOA (CA)

[Dukeybootie]

Soliciting opinions and advice from the community.

Basic situation is this -- solar panels are approved by the city and permits have been issued. Everything up to fire and safety code. However, my HOA wants the panels moved farther away from the roof edge for aesthetic reasons even though the panels are not on roof sections that face the street or any common area, and rejected my application. I think I can win on appeal but the process could take several weeks. Installer would prefer not to revise the existing plans to accommodate this since that would require re-submission to the city, etc, and they are ready to install everything as soon as tomorrow. Installer also claims HOA has no legal basis to stop me.

Should I let the installation proceed and deal with the HOA appeals process later? Timeliness of installation and PTO is also a factor due to the federal tax credit issue -- would like to get this done before 2021 hits.

 

[holeydonut]

The Solar Rights Act renders void and unenforceable any provision of a HOA’s governing documents that “effectively prohibits or restricts the installation or use of a solar energy system.” Civ. Code § 714(a).

http://solar-rights.com/files/THE_CALIFORNIA_SOLAR_RIGHTS_ACT2.pdf

(a) Any covenant, restriction, or condition contained in any deed, contract, security instrument, or other instrument affecting the transfer or sale of, or any interest in, real property that effectively prohibits or restricts the installation or use of a solar energy system is void and unenforceable

Just keep in mind that "unenforceable" just means public officials will not enforce it. But your HOA and neighbors could still make your life helllll out of vengeance and NIMBY-ism.

 

[jjrandorin]

Personal opinion inc,

In california, an HOA can not say "no" to solar panels, but can make "reasonable" requests. Most HOAs have stipulations in there about fines and such if you make changes without approval. If you go forward you run the real risk of someone on the HOA seeing your project move forward on your home, and digging in out of spite.

HOAs tend to also not care about timeliness either, so you are kind of caught. I went ahead without my HOA approval as it was caught up simply waiting for an HOA meeting for them to approve it, but this was also back in 2015. Also, my particular HOA is not a very "active" one, and is not a stickler for the rules unless someone escalates something. Each of these is different though.

 

[jjrandorin]

The Solar Rights Act renders void and unenforceable any provision of a HOA’s governing documents that “effectively prohibits or restricts the installation or use of a solar energy system.” Civ. Code § 714(a).

http://solar-rights.com/files/THE_CALIFORNIA_SOLAR_RIGHTS_ACT2.pdf



Just keep in mind that "unenforceable" just means public officials will not enforce it. But your HOA and neighbors could still make your life helllll out of vengeance and NIMBY-ism.

They cant say "no" but they can make requests like the one OP is mentioning.. whether that is reasonable or not is another story though.

 

[Krugerrand]

Could you petition your neighbors in the complex and ask them to sign off on it? If the community at large doesn’t care, then a few HOA community members with pickles up their butts shouldn’t either.

 

[holeydonut]

It sounds like the HOA request is restricting the number of panels and having a negative effect on the outcome of the solar energy system. Like I think the HOA can require the purchase of black panels and maybe some critter guards. But I don't think the HOA can make requests that effectively reduce the # of panels.

 

[h2ofun]

It sounds like the HOA request is restricting the number of panels and having a negative effect on the outcome of the solar energy system. Like I think the HOA can require the purchase of black panels and maybe some critter guards. But I don't think the HOA can make requests that effectively reduce the # of panels.

But they can make your life hell! Over 31 years I have had to battle mine over SO many things. Sat dishes. OTA antennas. Property lines. My holiday decorations and lights, HAM antenna, . Etc., Etc. I have yet to lose a fight with them which really pisses them off!!

They can "fine" a person, but at least in Calif, there is never a way to every legally collect a penny of these fines, which of course they will not tell you.

Before I put my solar up though, I called my HOA and made sure I got approval before I did anything. They like to be in control.

 

[SMAlset]

OP how close to the edge is the current placement? Is the HOA aware of your plans passing both the City and the Fire Department as is? If you have a manager to the HOA that you can speak to sometimes a good way to go in communicating with them if they are honest and upfront with homeowners. Have to say ours was a pleasure getting approval for ours, and luckily even though they don't meet but I think quarterly, we have an architectural committee that makes the recommendation to the board and they will email each other more frequently and recommend approval or changes. I think everyone in our HOA is sensitive to wanting to make improvements to our homes and tries to be reasonably accommodating if they can.

We also have a number of homeowners who have some sort of solar on their roof including facing the street so approval tends not to be an issue here I would think. Have you looked at other panels on homes in your complex to see what has already installed. You might also talk to the homeowners in the units that face the panel placement in question and see if they have any objection. If not they might be willing to express that in an email to you that you can forward to your HOA. Good luck. Let us know what path you take.

 

[Dukeybootie]

Thanks for all the responses!

I don't anticipate any problems from my neighbors as my pre-existing panels have been on the roof for the past 5 years and I am simply adding a few more panels that can't be seen from anywhere but the sky (due to how densely packed the homes are in my neighborhood). I could easily get my immediate neighbors to sign a petition saying they don't mind.

This new setback rule did not exist in the past as many homes around me (including mine) already have panels that extend all the way to the roof edge. Another point of frustration.

The HOA was not aware of the plans receiving city permits at the time they rejected my application, but I have been able to speak to the director since then to update him. The director himself is a nice enough man and we had a good conversation yesterday, but he said I still need to go through the appeals process, which does not move quickly.

I think the appeal has a good chance of winning, but installing the panels before that happens might piss off the HOA and lead to a drawn out fight. I guess that was the main question of my original post -- should I do it or not?

As of now I am resigned to postponing tomorrow's installation and rescheduling it to some other time this calendar year (for tax purposes) while waiting for the HOA's response. But if it drags on too long and threatens the 2020 schedule, I might say screw it and move ahead with installation.

 

[jboy210]

I think it is their ball and you have to play under their rules. You might get on the HOA board and change the game.

We are fortunate. I just walked down to the HOA president's house and told him we were putting on a Tesla SolarRoof. His response, "Cool".

It might help that Tesla is one of his company's big customers.

 

[vickh]

My HOA wanted me to move to the backyard ("preferred") I wish I hadn't now b/c it faces west. It does help with my TOU plan though.

 

[bhzmark]

tell them you will work with the installer to implement their suggestions that are consistent with the law and mention that you spoke to a lawyer. and proceed with the install.

most hoas don't want their landscaping budget drained by a losing legal fight with their residents.

 

[Dukeybootie]

Morning update: got the installer to postpone install date from today to 11/28. Informed HOA director of this. He responded (nicely) that the appeal review would probably not be complete by then. He is aware that I would like a 2020 install date for tax credit reasons and that pushing to 2021 would be a significant hit ($1000+). We are all acting respectfully and in good faith so far.

I have asked my installer for a later install date but still sometime in 2020. If they cannot find one, I am considering just going ahead with the 11/28 install and hoping for a successful HOA appeal after the fact. If they reject the appeal post installation, not sure what I would do at that point other than go to the lawyers. Still mulling things over...

 

[DoyleS]

Drive the neighborhood and find others that may have that same issue and use that to get them to approve. With my HOA, changes and things that are visible outside typically require approval of immediate neighbors. My neighbor came to me to sign off when he was replacing a cracked driveway with exactly the same driveway design. Go figure.

 

[vickh]

They can "fine" a person, but at least in Calif, there is never a way to every legally collect a penny of these fines, which of course they will not tell you.
.

Can they put in a lien on the house for the fines, when it comes time to sell?

 

[h2ofun]

Can they put in a lien on the house for the fines, when it comes time to sell?

From talking to a friend who is on a board, not anymore. Bottom line there is no longer ANY legal way to correct fines if a person does not want to pay, while in the house, during a sale, or after. One of those little secrets they will not tell you.

 

[holeydonut]

From talking to a friend who is on a board, not anymore. Bottom line there is no longer ANY legal way to correct fines if a person does not want to pay, while in the house, during a sale, or after. One of those little secrets they will not tell you.

But they can collect the dues right? Or are you saying even collecting unpaid HOA dues is impossible?

Asking for a friend.

 

[getakey]

If you have a contract with the HOA and dues are unpaid, it is easy for HOA to file an "Abstract Lien". Not sure if they can file the same for fines

 

[h2ofun]

But they can collect the dues right? Or are you saying even collecting unpaid HOA dues is impossible?

Asking for a friend.

Fines they CANNOT collect, Dues they CAN collect.

 

[h2ofun]

If you have a contract with the HOA and dues are unpaid, it is easy for HOA to file an "Abstract Lien". Not sure if they can file the same for fines

From what I am told, no more Liens for fines.