Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

[TLLMRRJ]

Tesla's factory alignment specs are complete garbage. There are no other production vehicles that spec 0.18 degrees of toe as an allowable value, yet every post in this thread that says "Tesla did my alignment" has attached a picture showing Tesla has their rear toe at 0.18 degrees, unacceptable.

The people that make Model S suspension components to reduce tire wear state that you want about that amount of rear toe, which is spec'd by Tesla. Not sure who to believe, you or Tesla and N2itive engineers?

What Wears Out Tires On A Tesla Faster? Toe or Camber?

We resolve this long standing debate on Tesla tire wear and show you how to solve this problem as well as how to determine the source of your tires issues.

n2itive.me

"In my opinion the ideal rear suspension alignment settings on a Tesla S or X would be to set the camber to about -1° and set the toe to about 0.20 to 0.25° at the ride height you drive at most often (with air suspension)."

 

[Sam1]

The people that make Model S suspension components to reduce tire wear state that you want about that amount of rear toe, which is spec'd by Tesla. Not sure who to believe, you or Tesla and N2itive engineers?

What Wears Out Tires On A Tesla Faster? Toe or Camber?

We resolve this long standing debate on Tesla tire wear and show you how to solve this problem as well as how to determine the source of your tires issues.

n2itive.me

"In my opinion the ideal rear suspension alignment settings on a Tesla S or X would be to set the camber to about -1° and set the toe to about 0.20 to 0.25° at the ride height you drive at most often (with air suspension)."

I do not believe Tesla. I have a video of me racing a 900hp G8, and on the side camera, you can see the toe kicked out pretty far and it flexes a significant amount as the car is skating around and trying to catch traction on a 100% OEM setup (the outside corner tread was even coming up off the ground where you could see light shining underneath it). This weekend I did some top speed runs with the UP toe arms and camber arms, and there was absolutely ZERO toe flex on the video, the tire stayed planted, and skating was reduced by probably 90% if I had to put a number on it.

UP sent me their recommended alignment settings, and the shop they work with here did that, then my camber specs, took it out and launched it and the guy said it wasn't hooking up well at my -1.5 camber request, so they dropped it to -0.9 and 0.25 toe (this is also around the range the UP recommended to me from the start) and it hooks up much better and feels more stable as you're rowing through the speedo under full throttle, all the way up to the cutoff.

 

[yamanote]

I do not believe Tesla. I have a video of me racing a 900hp G8, and on the side camera, you can see the toe kicked out pretty far and it flexes a significant amount as the car is skating around and trying to catch traction on a 100% OEM setup (the outside corner tread was even coming up off the ground where you could see light shining underneath it). This weekend I did some top speed runs with the UP toe arms and camber arms, and there was absolutely ZERO toe flex on the video, the tire stayed planted, and skating was reduced by probably 90% if I had to put a number on it.

UP sent me their recommended alignment settings, and the shop they work with here did that, then my camber specs, took it out and launched it and the guy said it wasn't hooking up well at my -1.5 camber request, so they dropped it to -0.9 and 0.25 toe (this is also around the range the UP recommended to me from the start) and it hooks up much better and feels more stable as you're rowing through the speedo under full throttle, all the way up to the cutoff.

Could you share the recommended alignment specs?

 

[Richbot]

Seems like a sensible range for traction and stability to me. Tesla and the factory know best for a narrow set of priorities that an individual owner might not share. And they don't deliver the cars within spec anyway, so not sure why that would be any kind of authority on the matter

long story short, your individual target for handling characteristics and tire wear determine appropriate alignment settings, not spec sheets. That's why it's supposed to be adjustable and releasing $100,000 car with "track mode" and no or extremely limited camber/toe adjustment for one whole end of the car is kinda BS. Glad the aftermarket seems to be thriving. What would an American hi-po car be without glaring factory suspension own-goals for enthusiasts to fix, lol

 

[cleverscreenam]

The people that make Model S suspension components to reduce tire wear state that you want about that amount of rear toe, which is spec'd by Tesla. Not sure who to believe, you or Tesla and N2itive engineers?

What Wears Out Tires On A Tesla Faster? Toe or Camber?

We resolve this long standing debate on Tesla tire wear and show you how to solve this problem as well as how to determine the source of your tires issues.

n2itive.me

"In my opinion the ideal rear suspension alignment settings on a Tesla S or X would be to set the camber to about -1° and set the toe to about 0.20 to 0.25° at the ride height you drive at most often (with air suspension)."

Holy cow. That's a change in position from Don, a new page I've never seen before. From 2012-2020 he has -0.05 to +0.10 toe wrote on his n2itive alignment specs page. Well let us know how that toe works out for you, how many miles you get on your tires. More data points are always helpful.

I've already seen the benefits of my settings: I used to spin tires at 50% throttle from a stop, now I can hammer 90% before slipping. That's all the convincing I needed, shrug.

Tesla and the factory know best for a narrow set of priorities that an individual owner might not share. And they don't deliver the cars within spec anyway, so not sure why that would be any kind of authority on the matter

LOL, exactly. My first action on a brand new Tesla would be an alignment check.

 

[Jett Black]

My 2021 Model S just shredded the inner band of the right rear tire at 20k miles.
Right rear had a super-slow leak. So, it was at about 36psi when I got on the highway.
That, in combination with the camber & toe issues plus it being highway speeds and low-mode on the suspension probably led to the shredded tire.

New set of shoes is on the way, and I have ordered the Eliminate Inner Tire & Premature Half-Shaft Wear On Tesla X/S! Alignment Kit 1.
I do think this is something Tesla should take care of, but not sure if that will ever happen.

 

[n2mb_racing]

My 2021 Model S just shredded the inner band of the right rear tire at 20k miles.
Right rear had a super-slow leak. So, it was at about 36psi when I got on the highway.
That, in combination with the camber & toe issues plus it being highway speeds and low-mode on the suspension probably led to the shredded tire.

New set of shoes is on the way, and I have ordered the Eliminate Inner Tire & Premature Half-Shaft Wear On Tesla X/S! Alignment Kit 1.
I do think this is something Tesla should take care of, but not sure if that will ever happen.

Did you order the updated parts for the refresh S?

 

[cmarshack]

Did you order the updated parts for the refresh S?

There is a dropdown on that page, I assume they ordered the correct year.

 

[Sam1]

There is a dropdown on that page, I assume they ordered the correct year.

They recently changed their ordering page & just added the drop down menu. When you said you ordered a kit, I also went to their site to check, because a few weeks ago the page was separate for the pre-refresh and refresh models. Now it appears to be the same order page with that drop down menu (that's why I didn't ask if you ordered the correct ones).

 

[n2mb_racing]

There is a dropdown on that page, I assume they ordered the correct year.

Got it. I already have their lowering links, so I'd guess I'd just need the:

TARTAN SX-P2 2021+ Tesla Model S/X PLAID & Long Range Forged Adjustable Rear Upper Camber Arms (1 PAIR)​

Any thoughts on needing the toe arms? It looks like N2itive doesn't make them yet for the refresh S / Plaid?

 

[Sam1]

Got it. I already have their lowering links, so I'd guess I'd just need the:

TARTAN SX-P2 2021+ Tesla Model S/X PLAID & Long Range Forged Adjustable Rear Upper Camber Arms (1 PAIR)​

Any thoughts on needing the toe arms? It looks like N2itive doesn't make them yet for the refresh S / Plaid?

you don't need them, but the UP ones make a massive difference for reducing movement because the OEM bushings are very soft for this application.

First video is at night so you have to watch closely, but you can see the toe flexing, the tire flexing, and the car sliding around a bit because everything is mushy. It was with OEM control and toe arms. Second video is with the UP control and toe arms. Both were 100% throttle launches to triple digits. The second video shows almost absolutely zero movement in any direction.

It's an enormous change.

 

[mcvaughan]

Got my N2itive alignment kit. Looks like a well made product.

Will report back once installed and will give my impression.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Does anyone have any insight on why our rear tires are slowly losing air? My right rear is slowly losing air. It seems to be a common problem, before the tires fail.

 

[santua]

Does anyone have any insight on why our rear tires are slowly losing air? My right rear is slowly losing air. It seems to be a common problem, before the tires fail.

I would check your rear tires' inner walls very carefully, chances are your tires are already cracked/worn down to the wire, well at least that was my case. I posted pictures on this thread of how my tires looked like when I noticed they were losing air.

 

[santua]

MS Plaid lowered on N2tive links. Starting losing air on the rear left for a bit now. I would put air on the tire (to whatever PSI is OEM) and drop all the way down to 33 PSI consistently. Kinda scary, considering the fact that it could've popped any moment. Getting both rears replaced, and should probably do adjustable camber and toe arms for the rear.

Here it is

 

[KyleDay]

Got my N2itive alignment kit. Looks like a well made product.

Will report back once installed and will give my impression.

How hard is this to install for someone who is handy but never done this? Or take to a shop?

 

[Sam1]

How hard is this to install for someone who is handy but never done this? Or take to a shop?

They're easy, but honestly it's easier to have a shop do it in case something gets messed up they'll be responsible. It has to have an alignment ASAP after, so might as well save yourself the trouble and do one stop.

 

[Sam1]

Also, I'd like to formally apologize to everyone waiting on tires. It's my fault, I just received two more this afternoon, because a few days ago I noticed I was down to 7 spares in the storage unit and needed a couple more. After all, it's about to be race season again!

 

[Russell]

Does anyone have any insight on why our rear tires are slowly losing air? My right rear is slowly losing air. It seems to be a common problem, before the tires fail.

I suspect the belts are separating from the rubber which is causing tiny perforations allowing the air to get out.

When you replace your tires, can you keep the one that loses air the fastest and take closeup pictures of the inner wall?

 

[Awiner]

Got it. I already have their lowering links, so I'd guess I'd just need the:

TARTAN SX-P2 2021+ Tesla Model S/X PLAID & Long Range Forged Adjustable Rear Upper Camber Arms (1 PAIR)​

Any thoughts on needing the toe arms? It looks like N2itive doesn't make them yet for the refresh S / Plaid?

The refresh has adjustable rear toe arms from the factory. Only need rear adjustable camber arms.