WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
Don't think it affects aftermarket 20s, either. Not claiming to understand anything more about the issue than anyone else, but it's a bit weird.
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Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?
- Thread starter KOL2000
- Start date
Not for my P85D. Alignment setting: rear toe-in of +0.15 saved the tires. i have a Plaid now but my son’s driving the P85D with more than 32k miles on the Michelin PSS tires. Even wear, around 3/32” tread remaining. No delamination like I have on the Plaid (PS4S).. Replacing the tires soon.
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It does. Less apparent.
4.5” sidewall vs 3.5”.
Deflection. Stiffer sidewall doesn’t have as much, the tread blocks take the wipe
Same with 20s, a funked alignment (toe) is a funked alignment. Rack those miles footing it around.
delamination? I don’t think you know what that word means. The entire tread “ring”<rolling surface> came off the steel belted carcass? How did you not end up with paint/body work? Blown air spring? no missing rear bumper? Crrrrraaaaazzzzy.
LOL… .17 toe in and perfect wear. I’m weak. I run this on one of our fixed/static suspension cars, there is absolutely no way the tires wear evenly. I suppose kiddo doesn’t floor it, niiiice, you’ll see it when the tires are worn out and you go to replace them. Inners will be much different than outers.
This is very much turning into the “zomggggg they rolled coal /on/ me, I’m calling the police” fart sniffer group think. Seems fun. Victim mentality, ignoring facts.
enjoy it. Might wanna double mask while alone in the car, those masks that can’t be used to paint a car will totally save you from the worlds most deadliest flu… I mean world ending virus.this post, these pictures, are NOT delamination. This is toe wear, the camber setting localized it to that whole line of blocks. Blantantly obviousPerfectly good tires. So sad that they wear like this
also an alignment issue, you can see the wear “line” across every block
same with these photos. Toe wear.Hello, i am new to the community i own a 2021 Plaid with 21" wheels. I also have a similar issue, but mine is worst. I started loosing air pressure on one of my rear tires at 11k miles, thread depth is 6/32 according to the tire shop; however, the inner part of the tire is badly worn out on a very small area, pictures attached. I am very familiar with cars with cambered wheels having owned several mercedes, BMW (including an F10 M5) and Audi, but never seen anything like this. The car has been at the service center in and out (very long story) and every time they adjusted the tire pressure to factory pressure. The driver side tire was so badly damaged that the car is not drive-able until new tires are installed (which of course are not available until a week from today. Anybody has any idea what this is ? Has anybody else seen this ? Doesnt the wear area look particularly narrow ? i would almost say that it is so narrow because they are over inflated (again Tesla service center has checked these tire pressures about 5 times in 11k miles) . More info: I do drive the plaid how its meant to be driven, as a high speed cruiser... I dont track the car (please dont this is not a track car), most of my driving has been in Texas winter since i have owned the car but the last 2 months have been brutally hot (100+). I do once in a while show those hellcats where they belong (in my rear view mirror) but other than that there is no reason for this wear pattern.
bump steer… caster ain’t gunna fix that, as a 2x prior c6z06 owner, this is what we use to fix bump. Bump Steer Kit
Ain’t that crazy how bump is fixed by outer tie rods being positioned in a manner that fixes geometry? Hint: tie rods control toe and not caster
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Are you mental? I’m not trying to blame camber I like a healthy amount of camber all around. refresh suffers from some flexy bushings. on acceleration it squats and toes out. With the soft bushings setting the toe in a bit compensates for that defect.
On my P85DL, I ate through all season 19" tires every 12 to 15K miles with rear combined toes ranging from 0.3 to 0.4 through multiple alignments. It wasn't until I fixed my crazy negative rear camber with adjustable upper arms that I started getting 35K+ miles per set until I sold it with 135K miles in February of 2022.
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lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Once again, the previous generation had a lot of camber which caused tires to wear out in 15,000 miles. This is a completely different issue than the refresh suspension that has a dynamic toe problem which causes scrub on the inside of the tires under hard acceleration, causing them to split in the corner. Sure, zeroing your camber can save your tires but the car won’t handle well. Addressing the toe issue will save your tires and have good handling.
Yes, imagine if it was a design or construction defect in the OEM Michelin 21" tires . . . wouldn't that be a coincidence. /s
Michelin needs to recall these tires ASAP and Tesla needs to step up and get a new OEM 21" tire as well.
Pathetic that this has gone for so long. Someone is going to get hurt if this keeps up.
File a formal warranty claim at Michelin's website, and follow up with NHTSA for an eventual recall of ALL of these garbage 21" Michelin OEM tires . . . you'll get a new set of tires and just pay for installation and balance. Discount Tire has been our "go to" with good success, but they don't know much about the warranty process. Keep the tires as they'll need to go back to Michelin, unless your local DT knows the protocol.It does. Less apparent.
4.5” sidewall vs 3.5”.
Deflection. Stiffer sidewall doesn’t have as much, the tread blocks take the wipe
Same with 20s, a funked alignment (toe) is a funked alignment. Rack those miles footing it around.
delamination? I don’t think you know what that word means. The entire tread “ring”<rolling surface> came off the steel belted carcass? How did you not end up with paint/body work? Blown air spring? no missing rear bumper? Crrrrraaaaazzzzy.
LOL… .17 toe in and perfect wear. I’m weak. I run this on one of our fixed/static suspension cars, there is absolutely no way the tires wear evenly. I suppose kiddo doesn’t floor it, niiiice, you’ll see it when the tires are worn out and you go to replace them. Inners will be much different than outers.
This is very much turning into the “zomggggg they rolled coal /on/ me, I’m calling the police” fart sniffer group think. Seems fun. Victim mentality, ignoring facts.
this post, these pictures, are NOT delamination. This is toe wear, the camber setting localized it to that whole line of blocks. Blantantly obvious
also an alignment issue, you can see the wear “line” across every block
same with these photos. Toe wear.
bump steer… caster ain’t gunna fix that, as a 2x prior c6z06 owner, this is what we use to fix bump. Bump Steer Kit
Ain’t that crazy how bump is fixed by outer tie rods being positioned in a manner that fixes geometry? Hint: tie rods control toe and not caster
1:21 starts helping you. Within 0-0:30sec you’ll be told what bumpsteer is. Chevyhardcore.com has a nice article that’ll educate anyone on bumpsteer.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Buckets, what exactly are you disagreeing with, or are you just trolling a response?
Previous gen and refresh suspensions aren’t the same.
Camber is desirable
Toe out is bad
Refresh has soft bushings
Tires aren’t defective
Previous gen and refresh suspensions aren’t the same.
Camber is desirable
Toe out is bad
Refresh has soft bushings
Tires aren’t defective
Your lack of reading comprehension. Your inability to understand that all air suspension teslas have rear toe IN issues (factory alignment, so y’all civic owners don’t end yourself. Don’t feel bad, most manufacturers don’t want to kill off their customer base) and toe out upon accel. Your assertion that non p85+ cars don’t have squishy compliance bushes. You thinking I think the tires are defective.
We can continue adding to this list, I can break down every one of your posts and go over exactly what I disagreed with, but again.. bees/flies - honey/shidd. I ain’t here to fix y’all’s fart sniffing echo chamber.
This is pure comedy at this point. Embrace it. Or camp my profile, you ain’t finding much Duder. Maybe you can Mass disagree with my posts to make yourself feel gooder.
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trimotor
Member
For others reading and interested in learning and sharing, changing caster definitely does change bump steer.
Personal experience in addition to my C7 adjustment: On an open-wheel formula (wings) race car, I took out several degrees of caster in the front to lighten the steering weight in corners. At the next race, practicing in the rain, with lots of downforce dialed in the wings, going down the long back straight at Atlanta, the car wanted to kill me (felt super twitchy) once speeds got up to ~80-100mph. Race was dry so didn't worry about it until I got home. Removed the front springs/shocks and moved the suspension up and down freely, measuring the toe changing. I estimate over 1/4" of toe out down the straights. The race car had a similar tie rod as the above bump steer kit - adjusting the toe link height fixed the mess I created by changing the caster. In fact, I adjusted it to have a smidge of toe-in during hard braking for stability and confidence. Success!
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Can't really disagree with someone's reading comprehension skill, but ok. I get your sentiment. This started when I posted that the the issues of a 2012 S are not the same as the Refresh. You disagreed. How is that possible to disagree with? You think the refresh suffers from the same issues as the 2012 and has the same remedy? Only if you are saying that's its an alignment issue, but that's very basic.Your lack of reading comprehension. Your inability to understand that all air suspension teslas have rear toe IN issues (factory alignment, so y’all civic owners don’t end yourself. Don’t feel bad, most manufacturers don’t want to kill off their customer base) and toe out upon accel. Your assertion that non p85+ cars don’t have squishy compliance bushes. You thinking I think the tires are defective.
We can continue adding to this list, I can break down every one of your posts and go over exactly what I disagreed with, but again.. bees/flies - honey/shidd. I ain’t here to fix y’all’s fart sniffing echo chamber.
This is pure comedy at this point. Embrace it. Or camp my profile, you ain’t finding much Duder. Maybe you can Mass disagree with my posts to make yourself feel gooder.
I never claimed the previous gen didn't have squishy bushings, I said the refresh does. I said the refresh toes out on accel which it does. I said the tires aren't defective, never claimed you thought so. See, I was listing things that I said are true that you seem to disagree with, and yet you still persist on disagreeing with me and suggest I retaliate like a 5 year old against you.
What do you mean the car toes out to protect the driver? Toe out increases oversteer and is meant to compensate for FWD understeer
"Toe in is a setting on the rear of a car that can improve its handling:
- Reduced oversteer: Toe in can reduce the car's tendency to oversteer.
- High-speed stability: Toe in can improve a car's high-speed stability, allowing the driver to push harder and faster.
- Straight-line stability: Toe in can improve the car's straight-line stability."
Do you own a Plaid?
You have a condescending attitude and unfit for healthy forum discussions.It does. Less apparent.
4.5” sidewall vs 3.5”.
Deflection. Stiffer sidewall doesn’t have as much, the tread blocks take the wipe
Same with 20s, a funked alignment (toe) is a funked alignment. Rack those miles footing it around.
delamination? I don’t think you know what that word means. The entire tread “ring”<rolling surface> came off the steel belted carcass? How did you not end up with paint/body work? Blown air spring? no missing rear bumper? Crrrrraaaaazzzzy.
LOL… .17 toe in and perfect wear. I’m weak. I run this on one of our fixed/static suspension cars, there is absolutely no way the tires wear evenly. I suppose kiddo doesn’t floor it, niiiice, you’ll see it when the tires are worn out and you go to replace them. Inners will be much different than outers.
This is very much turning into the “zomggggg they rolled coal /on/ me, I’m calling the police” fart sniffer group think. Seems fun. Victim mentality, ignoring facts.
this post, these pictures, are NOT delamination. This is toe wear, the camber setting localized it to that whole line of blocks. Blantantly obvious
also an alignment issue, you can see the wear “line” across every block
same with these photos. Toe wear.
bump steer… caster ain’t gunna fix that, as a 2x prior c6z06 owner, this is what we use to fix bump. Bump Steer Kit
Ain’t that crazy how bump is fixed by outer tie rods being positioned in a manner that fixes geometry? Hint: tie rods control toe and not caster
1:21 starts helping you. Within 0-0:30sec you’ll be told what bumpsteer is. Chevyhardcore.com has a nice article that’ll educate anyone on bumpsteer.
Shh, you'll bring out the crazies who will swear up and down that this is a problem with all tires and all plaids and that the 21" only shows it faster because it's a stiffer sidewall, despite other 21" not having that wear pattern.
The toe is probably a problem on (most?) model S. But the Michelin 21s seem extremely prone to toe issues compared to pretty much every other wheel/tire combo.
What is not an issue is camber. The camber these cars run is not particularly aggressive. It'll wear out the inside edge faster, but it should still last a reasonable amount of time. Not worth spending $1200 to neuter the handling and "correct" that.
You took text and applied your feelings to it. Let’s not be a victim, you’ll be fine. Text can’t hurt you.
OE tires historically have less tread depth, look to recent CT media hype over snow. This isn’t /only/ on them. Rivian also does this. Tesla does this on other cars too, the Y performance on stock 21s had this issue. The 3 2020 Y performance I purchased from tesla at launch all did this. Snagged a few sets of take offs and swapped the other to OE 19s, aligned them all with <F+R> Left 0.00deg - Right 0.00deg toe. Tire wipers anonymous membership revoked. No different on any of the other tesla we’ve owned. 2008-current.
It’s almost like google/DuckDuckGo/bing searches for ‘does camber or toe destroy tires’ doesn’t return pages of answers to this. Ones that don’t match the thoughts of /tire wipers anonymous/.
Same “issue” as a E60 BMW, or literally any other “drivers” car.
y’all got a serious echo chamber membership, denying geometry and substituting in your feelings. Not to mention reading comprehension on par with current Oregon students, wild stuff. But hey, there are people that think CCS EVs are better than teslas because the tesla ceo badddd. Forgetting Henry Ford’s life story; not hearing the thoughts of all other CEOs for products they own. 
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Just had tires replaced. Noticed small air leak. 1 to 2 psi per day, brought it into discount tire in san diego and they found massive inner tire wear (see pic)
. Outside of tires had 5/16 left, plenty of tread available.Tires dont last more than 5k miles. How has Tesla not fixed this!!!?
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n2mb_racing
Active Member
Yup. They've been doing that since the very first model S. The refresh seems to be even worse. A good alignment (not at Tesla) might help. Good alignment plus camber arms will definitely help.
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