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Plaid+ CANCELLED

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#21
So I signed up for plaid (no plus back then) on battery day. Company shifted my order to plus when that car was announced without asking whether I wanted to, where that car then got delayed for the better part of a year, but then I was glad to sit with the order because of the range. Now they cancel the car. I'm not going to take the available regular plaid anytime soon (no matter how much they don't want to pooch the quarter) because I'm not going to be an early adopter (guinea pig) for the removal of all the stalks my muscle memory knows how to use plus the addition of a yoke wheel of questionable safety. Combined with the way they run service (where I've almost always left the service center with more things broken than repaired) this is the least customer-focused company I have ever dealt with. This train is off the rails. Fortunately for me there are now enticing offerings from Porsche, Mercedes and Audi. Have you looked at the augmented reality heads-up display for the EQS? Too bad Tesla doesn't have the technological skill to offer something like it while they waste their time on an FSD system that will always require hands on the wheel to deal with disengagements and prevent crashes. Do you know that Mercedes and the EQS are about to roll out a hands-off level 3 highway system in Germany? Too bad Tesla can't figure that out. Admittedly these German cars are not as fast as Tesla's cars, but if this rant gets me blacklisted by the minions of the egomaniac in charge, I at least have the option of choosing a fast high-end Lucid. The key truth is that Tesla is no longer the only game in town in electric cars. If I still ran the hedge fund I had before I retired, I would act on that fact when trading opened Monday.
 
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#22
sillydriver said:
So I signed up for plaid (no plus back then) on battery day. Company shifted my order to plus when that car was announced without asking whether I wanted to, where that car then got delayed for the better part of a year, but I was glad to take it because of the range. Now they cancel the car. I'm not going to take the available regular plaid anytime soon (no matter how much they don't want to pooch the quarter) because I'm not going to be an early adopter (guinea pig) for the removal of all the stalks my muscle memory knows how to use plus the addition of a yoke wheel of questionable safety. Combined with the way they run service (where my I've almost always left the service center with more things broken than repaired) this is the least customer-focused company I have ever dealt with. This train is off the rails. Fortunately for me there are now enticing offerings from Porsche, Mercedes and Audi (have you looked at the augmented reality heads-up display for the EQS? Too bad Tesla doesn't have the technological skill to offer something like it). Admittedly these cars are not as fast as Tesla's cars, but if this rant gets me blacklisted by the minions of the egomaniac in charge, I at least have the option of choosing a fast high-end Lucid. The key truth is that Tesla is no longer the only game in town in electric cars. If I still ran the hedge fund I had before I retired, I would act on that fact when trading opened Monday.
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All fair points. But, I only care about speed and autopilot... so I think that leaves Tesla as the only game in town until the tri-motor Lucid Air is available.
 
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#25
DocZ said:
Honestly if this is true, this is incredibly disappointing. I’ve waited for YEARS for a refresh S. Finally the Plaid+ was everything I wanted. Had the reservation since Battery Day. What the hell kind of company puts up a product for sale and then cancels it?
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Despite the rant I wrote upthread, in a sense I don't think the plaid+ is canceled. Will they not make 4680 lower cost million-mile tabless batteries in a year or two? Of course they will. Will they not put them in their high-end, high gross margin car once they are making enough of them? Of course they will. Will they not convert to a structural pack design given its many advantages? Of course they will. No, they just "canceled" the car they are still inevitably going to make down the road so we will buy what they want to sell us now, old shorter-range battery tech and all -- I'm not going to fall for it. If I don't have a great EV from another maker at the time it comes out (which for all I know may still be mid-22) then I will still buy it. The change in my plan is that the decision will be based on what's actually available at the time, not promises.
 
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#27
sillydriver said:
(Insert - Telsa) is the least customer-focused company I have ever dealt with. This train is off the rails.
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Sadly yes and it will only get worse with Musk running things ad-hoc like he does, with apparently nobody else in the company having much say on anything.
I look forward to the day when there is more EV options as fast as a Model-S, that don't cost Porsche money and are assembled better than an 80's Chrysler product. Lucid looks promising (not really pretty though), but will it deliver on the hype?
 
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#31
Compared to the previous Model S Performance, is the Plaid just more power (through a tri-imotor setup) with the updated interior? I had assumed this was the case and the Plaid+ got all of the goodies like upgraded brakes, wider body, aero, suspension, etc.

It will be kinda disappointing if the Plaid is still basically the same as the base Model S with just more power.

I'm sure we will find out on the 10th.
 
#32
sillydriver said:
Despite the rant I wrote upthread, in a sense I don't think the plaid+ is canceled. Will they not make 4680 lower cost million-mile tabless batteries in a year or two? Of course they will. Will they not put them in their high-end, high gross margin car once they are making enough of them? Of course they will. Will they not convert to a structural pack design given its many advantages? Of course they will. No, they just "canceled" the car they are still inevitably going to make down the road so we will buy what they want to sell us now, old shorter-range battery tech and all -- I'm not going to fall for it. If I don't have a great EV from another maker at the time it comes out (which for all I know may still be mid-22) then I will still buy it. The change in my plan is that the decision will be based on what's actually available at the time, not promises.
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Or trying to fit the 4680 battery pack into a 12 year old design was too much engineering and required new car certification which is time consuming and expensive. Not worth the ROI in money or time. Gives spec breathing room to the upcoming Roadster too...............................unless its cancelled too.
 
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#33
qdeathstar said:
they probably don’t want to compete with the roadster.... Making an electric car go fast isn’t that difficult. The 520 mile range might have been though.
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I can't see how roadster is relevant, this is more about osborne effect and the fact that the Plaid+ is not production ready. Nevertheless, this made my choice between Plaid+ and CT so much easier :D
 
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#35
An important point about the structural battery pack. It has a diminishing return as the vehicle gets larger and heavier. In the $25,000 car it makes a lot of sense, in a model S there isn't a tremendous amount of advantage.

For certain the semi won't have a structural battery pack. There's really no reason at all, and might be a negative. The amount of miles those things get on them it might be smarter to be able to change the battery with relative ease.

I do recall that on battery day there was something said about the size of the car and the structural battery pack value.

Summary: A structural battery pack in a model S would probably have little value at all. Adding the tabless cells within the same size battery pack might make a big difference. Remember, we do not know if the battery pack size is the same as the original 2012 model s. It might be completely different.
 
#36
P100D_Me said:
Sadly yes and it will only get worse with Musk running things ad-hoc like he does, with apparently nobody else in the company having much say on anything.
I look forward to the day when there is more EV options as fast as a Model-S, that don't cost Porsche money and are assembled better than an 80's Chrysler product. Lucid looks promising (not really pretty though), but will it deliver on the hype?
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Sadly, experience with Tesla has soured me on all other upstarts. Besides the fact that Lucid just looks (esthetically) like a Saturn spin-off to me, the scars of Tesla would require someone like Lucid to give me a long contract guaranteeing that they cannot pull the same crap as Tesla, with monetary backup. Things such as:
  • The entire car, not just parts of it, must be capable of the specs you advertise throughout the warranty period, or you buy the car back at 100% MSRP
  • If the screen goes yellow, it's covered under warranty. Wearable items are listed here and everything else is covered (followed by an explicit list)
  • Warranty covers ALL parts and labor required to change out parts under warranty, not just some while you have to pay for others (e.g. pay $1,200 for a gasket in order to get a replacement DU, or pay $3,000 for an MCU in order to get a replacement battery, etc).
  • Parts for my car will be available at least through the warranty period, with lead time no more than 60 days, or you buy the car back at 100% MSRP or at least give me MSRP I paid as credit towards a new one (so I don't need to wait for parts, just upgrade)
  • If the only way for my car to achieve a feature or spec you sold me is to buy a new car, the upgrade to the new car is free
You know, it's way to tiring to have to even think of all the BS Elon pulled and what I would need from an upstart to feel comfortable to give them $100K. So far it's looking like I'll just be going with eTron RS GT, fully loaded ~$160K, so more than Tesla, but somehow I now think the premium is worth to avoid an upstart - Elon did that. :(
 
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#38
HVM said:
But vaporware is always bad who ever does it.
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Not really. Look how much great marketing Tesla got out of FSD. They redefined its capabilities in 2019, so suddenly they went from 0% done to 75% done by simply redefining FSD to be what EAP used to be, but from 2016 to 2019 they sold Level 5 Auto Pilot vaporware (which did absolutely NOTHING, not even a different color control on the dash) while getting a whole lot of attention from the media. Look at the TSLA stock price during that period too.
 
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