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ahkahn
Active Member
Cheap leather retails between $7.00-10.00/sqft. You'll get about 50sqft in a typical hide, and useable leather in a hide equates to about 2.5 yards of material. So, a cheaper leather would come in around $140/yard retail price. Ultraleather is priced very similarly to genuine leather.
On the contrast, a mediocre PVC vinyl retails around $15/yard, and can be found as low as $5/yard.
I would want to know for care purposes. If I think it's leather, I am probably going to be using a leather conditioner on it, when that might not be a good idea.
Lots of misinformation in this thread, as well as a lot of misconceptions. I am in the leather/vinyl/upholstery supply distribution business. My company is a supplier to the automotive aftermarket, marine, aircraft, and commercial markets. I grew up around fabrics and vinyls, and I know them very well.
I'm not here to change anybody's minds, but Tesla is spot on with this change.
First of all, let's talk about leather vs. vinyl. Vinyl technology has come a long way over the last 50 years, 25 years, and 10 years due to formulations, topcoats, and fabric backings. Over the last 10 years, vinyl technology has come so far that I could show you samples of vinyl and samples of genuine leather and you would swear the vinyl is genuine leather and genuine leather is really vinyl. Durability? You'd never believe how durable vinyl is today. Much more so than genuine leather, hands down. I could show you test after test that shows that on both the Martindale and Wyzenbeek durability tests an average vinyl would consistently beat a good leather.
Types of vinyl? Yes, there are now different types of vinyl. The Ultra white seats (which I have) are actually not your traditional PVC vinyl. They are actually Ultraleather, made by Ultrafabrics. This is a very high-end polyurethane-based vinyl. This is the top-of-the-line material on the market today. It is used in high-end spas, high-end custom cars, yachts, cruise ships, and many other high-traffic luxurious applications. You're lucky to be able to get a material this nice OEM in a vehicle. This stuff retails around $150/yard, and the street price is around $70/yard or so. It passes over 400,000 double rubs on the Wyzenbeek abrasion test. A good quality leather MAY pass around 25,000-50,000 (which is considered Heavy-Duty). Yes, that's a huge difference. Even a mediocre PVC vinyl will go 75,000 double rubs on a Wyzenbeek test. FYI- a double rub is denim material rubbed up and down the material (that's one double-rub). It simulates your butt sliding across the material.
So, the "vegan" aspect is a marketing move, but this is definitely a durability move. Leather does NOT hold up. Check out your leather seats in any other car you own, after about 75,000 miles, do you see the left side of the seat wearing (cracking, wrinkling, etc)? I guarantee you that the Ultraleather interior, as well as a standard PVC vinyl interior, will hold up much longer. If Tesla is going for the million mile mark on these cars, which they've said they are, this is clearly why they're making this move.
I'm happy to take any questions on interior components....
So you're saying the seats in my Tesla aren't made of the same vinyl as my Dad's (1969 Ford Country Squire) car when I was a kid? I hope not cause it got pretty hot on summer days
ahkahn
Active Member
I was told when I purchased my car by my delivery specialist NOT to use a leather cleaner or conditioner on the Ultra white seats. Once he opened that can of worms, I spent another hour educating him on them....
ahkahn
Active Member
So you're saying the seats in my Tesla aren't made of the same vinyl as my Dad's (1969 Ford Country Squire) car when I was a kid? I hope not cause it got pretty hot on summer days
Nope... Although if that's what you REALLY want, I could hook you up.....
I was told when I purchased my car by my delivery specialist NOT to use a leather cleaner or conditioner on the Ultra white seats. Once he opened that can of worms, I spent another hour educating him on them....
So, does that mean you could use a leather conditioner on them with no bad effects if you weren't told?
Shock-On-T
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Sort of.All protein originates from plants, it's not like cows create protein. It's the microbiota in their gut. Anyways, I just like the way a good steak tastes, but it's definitely not healthy for me =) So if all that meat has made you any smarter, you'll know it's not good for you
Actually the cow breaks the whole plant down to its constituent atoms, the rebuilds new proteins according to its DNA.
Each group of three DNA letters makes one amino acid, which are threaded together sequentially and folded as they go to form each protein in the cow (or human).
Thanks to Ahkahn for posts above, especially 58 & 62. It is good to have an expert opinion rather than a bunch of conspiracy theories. I suspect however that there will be at least some market resistance and delayed acceptance. That said I think it would have been better for Tesla, witches had a problem producing seats that wear well, to be a bit more transparentto be a bit more transparent with the technical reasons for the change rather than trying create one of my new market demand for "vegan" seats.
My suspicion is that more consumers care about their well reinforced (by various marketing organizations and afdagencies) appreciation of leather upon which to ride on their way to a steak dinner than they are about "vegan" seats. I seen more steakhouses beside the road that I do salad restaurants. This is not the first time that Tesla has been less transparent then they might have been an end up look like a different bovine product.
By the way far more concerning than the fate of the cows is the fate of the human beings processing the leather.
See:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...sg=AFQjCNFdAxChZiAS-xCUAJDZZC4cR5p8ug&cf=1
My suspicion is that more consumers care about their well reinforced (by various marketing organizations and afdagencies) appreciation of leather upon which to ride on their way to a steak dinner than they are about "vegan" seats. I seen more steakhouses beside the road that I do salad restaurants. This is not the first time that Tesla has been less transparent then they might have been an end up look like a different bovine product.
By the way far more concerning than the fate of the cows is the fate of the human beings processing the leather.
See:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...sg=AFQjCNFdAxChZiAS-xCUAJDZZC4cR5p8ug&cf=1
EV-lutioin
Active Member
When Tesla made this shift, I knew it would be a hot issue on the forum! I like leather, it feels good and smells good and yet I chose the multi-pattern seats in my MX and couldn't be happier. In the end, I don't care what material they use as long as it comes in a super-fast, ultra-smooth electric car with a big T on the steering wheel.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Similar to EV vehicles -- so perhaps it's a good fit for an EV maker to be the first to go leatherless -- then watch the rest follow when it's found to be a superior product -- sort of like what's happening with the vehicle itself.
I also like leather but not as much as I like changes that may make for a better world.
Yes, he added some much needed expert opinion to this thread. I'm actually now looking forward to one day getting a fake leather product that is much more durable than real leather.
Nah, it just needs a good marketing name like "alcantara". That stuff is seen as premium even though it is not an actual suede product.
jelloslug
Active Member
I made a set of theater seating style recliners a few years ago with top grain European leather and each hide was about $250. The leather was much higher quality than what you would find in almost any car and it works out to around the same price as the ultraleather product that was mentioned above. As a side note, real Alcantara has a street price of about $100 a yard.
i was curious about the environmental impact of synthetic.. because that will be the first place detractors look at looking at the total carbon footprint of the car. then i decided to look at your link and saw this:I'm happy to take any questions on interior components....
CharlieLab
Member
I have the ultra white interior and have to say I love it. I also have a similar synthetic leather material in my yacht and it holds up so much better than leather. Fashion, advertising and media have programmed us to think leather = best quality but i hope people open their minds to these newer materials and put aside what we are told and forget what people might think of us. Synthetic feels great, looks nice and wears well. What else do we need?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm going to be perfectly happy eating my cheese burger with bacon and egg while sitting on my synthetic seats.
As long as the seats are comfortable, durable, and most importantly I can clean the spilled cheese burger off of them.
Bonus points if they bring back cooled seats.
As long as the seats are comfortable, durable, and most importantly I can clean the spilled cheese burger off of them.
Bonus points if they bring back cooled seats.
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