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Plugless Charging

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Jayc, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. Jayc

    Jayc Member

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  2. juanmedina

    juanmedina Member

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    I am really surprised that they are going to use wireless charging. My understanding is that charging rates with wireless charging is terrible and it will take a while to charge your car vs plug charging
     
  3. garsh

    garsh Re Member

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    In case this wasn't clear, it's not Tesla. A company called Plugless is going to offer a wireless charging adapter kit.
     
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  4. Siciliano

    Siciliano Member

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    Yes, I keep seeing ads for this. I guess wireless charging for the Model S will be out this fall. I'd assume they will have it available for the 3 once deliveries commence.

    They're claiming 20 miles per ~1 hr of charging, which is good, but might not be enough for some. Price is around $2k. Perhaps by the time the 3 is delivered, charging times will have decreased... I guess we'll see.

    Wireless 7.2kW Charger for Tesla Model S | Plugless
     
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  5. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    I have heard that the efficiency of wireless is poor. The larger the gap, the more power is lost. That lost power is still billed, but shows up as heat. The key is to have a very small air gap between charger plates (car vs floor).
    Plugless talks about them, but in flowery terms that can slip past ones diligence.
    Great concept,but emerging tech may still have a few wrinkles
     
  6. jkk_

    jkk_ Member

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    I know I shouldn't make this comparison but I'll make it anyway. If mobile phone chargers are any indication, I'd rather have my car charge via cable :)

    So many times the charging just stops and I need to pickup and put the phone back on the pad to continue the charge.
     
  7. boofagle

    boofagle Member

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    I believe plugless states they have a 95% efficiency, on par with wired charging.
     
  8. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    yea, I read that too...but be careful as to what part of the charging daisy chain is at 95%, and look at the entire system efficiency.
    I think the plan is delightful, but the physics have not been smoothed - just the advertising. Be a smart buyer-
     
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  9. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    So for over $2000 I can buy a device which will charge much more slowly than if I plugged it into the wall...?

    I'd rather have the robotic snake charger!!!
     
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  10. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    I saw the video of the "Snake" tapping in. Cool. But I have not seen a second snake. Is this a dead project? like battery-swap?
    If I had a handful of cash, do you think I could buy a snake?(this decade?)
     
  11. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    The Tesla wall connector (dead snake) is only $500 - $550 and gives 58 miles of range per hour on a model S with two onboard chargers.
     
  12. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    yea, but I still have to plug it in in person. Takes a whopping 30 seconds. Imagine what I could do with a summon/snake where I don't have to be there. I know Summon is exiting from the pipeline. Where is the snake?
     
  13. garsh

    garsh Re Member

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    Wireless charging (or a charging snake) would be useful when having your car drive itself across the country. Otherwise, we'll need valets at supercharging stations to plug & unplug the passenger-less vehicles so that they can continue their journey.
     
  14. Jayc

    Jayc Member

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    I think this is a market opportunity for someone to do a wireless charge solution where the two plates make near contact when switched on so that efficiency is at its max yet there is no electricity passing through.

    When switched off, the base plate on the floor will return flat and flush with the floor level but when switched on, it will rise up and make contact with charge plate on the underside of car. So what happens if someone just drives off accidentally while switched on? There will have to be a mechanical defeat mechanism that collapses on movement or auto retraction of some sort.

    I am sure someone must have tried something similar and failed, can't be that easy right?
     
  15. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    That "rising plate" fixes the physics of the air gap and loss of efficiency. As you said, it also introduces a package of mechanical/safty issues. But I like your idea.
     
  16. daxz

    daxz Member

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    Couldn't you just have contact plates exposed on bottom of car instead of inductive coils with less energy loss. Have a infrared beam communication to keep it safe to engage.
    And to keep the contacts clean put a sliding door over them
    Maybe put them in side of car by the tail light and just have the floor brushes move to them like a snake
    Or just make it go into the regular plug ;):D
     
  17. eloder

    eloder Member

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    I'd consider wireless charging at home, but only because keeping my car unplugged when there's a possibility of thunderstorms or severe weather (pretty frequent in the summer here) can be pretty annoying for me.
     
  18. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    The car wont drive off while it's "plugged in". So if, with this wireless charging solution, Tesla sees the car as being "plugged in", then when you get into the car, you will not be able to drive off without disconnecting (and probably waiting) for the wireless elevated charge to drop to the floor.
     
  19. PluglessSteve

    PluglessSteve Member

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    Hello Future Tesla 3 owners! First congrats on your reservations and for those of you who are new to EVs, welcome to...well, changing the world. A few disclosures, 1st - I work for Plugless 2nd - we are an after-market accessory (READ: not working with Tesla on this). So bear with me as I share a few things that might benefit the discussion and note I am discussing the current state of Plugless, not how things will be when you get your 3s. WARNING: TL;DR.

    First thing to know about us - we are the only company that has sold, installed and serviced wireless EV charging units to real EV customers (read: consumers) ever...in the world. We trialled our system beginning in 2011 at lil' joints like Google, Hertz, U.S. Dept. of Energy and others - learned a lot, made some refinements and began selling the Gen1 Plugless 3.3kW systems in 2014 to Volt, LEAF and Caddy ELR owners (all North America - FYI). Fast-forward to today and we're at well over 1/2 million charge hours and taking reservations on our 7.2kW for Tesla Model. (here's what we have learned in that time Plugless Wireless Car Charging - Lessons Learned After 500K Hours).

    Efficiency:

    Plugless is roughly 7% less efficient than corded level 1 charging (that's 110V home outlet charging - start thinking now about how you will not be stuck with level1 charging...seriously, stop reading this thread and figure that out). Plugless is roughly 12% less efficient than corded level 2 charging. For perspective (AND with the disclaimer that this range of numbers is using all sorts of national averages) that equates to roughly $.28 (USD) to $.33 of extra electricity per typical nightly charging on EVs. We make our efficiency claim based on the extensive testing of the U.S. Dept. of Energy's Idaho National Laboratories who did more than 8,700 separate tests on Plugless. Here is a data sheet on that testing: https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/evse/PLUGLESSEvatranStandaloneTestResultsFactSheet.pdf <--- that right there, that's another first for Plugless, published 3rd party data on wireless EV charging.

    Higher Power WEVC:
    First thing to understand - Plugless is for home charging or dedicated parking space charging at work (for now). For Model S owners, Plugless will give them 20-25 mile of range per hour. That is PLENTY of juice for the VAST majority of typical daily driving habits when you consider the miles driven per day and all the hours the Tesla is parked (overnight and/or at work). You'll see all sorts of comments about how long it takes to recharge at XX or YY charging rate - remember those are nearly always expressed in terms of a fully depleted battery pack to fully charged. Who does that every day? Very, very few people. You won't (and really shouldn't) be using your EV like that. Superchargers are blisteringly fast b/c the use case is minimizing time charging when users are presumably traveling.
    But what about 20kW, 50kW, 200kW wireless EV chargers I've heard about? Yup, super possible (we are part of a team at Clemson that has a 20kW system...if you are curious - we are the Evatran in those announcements). But for home/work charging - the costs of supplying electricity to these units would be massive, astronomical. (BTW, have you thought through how you will supply the electricity you'll need to charge your 3? If not...again stop reading this and go figure that out, it may include moving).

    Mechanical Hands-Free Charging:
    We would love competition of any kind. EVs have been around a while and no mechanical hands-free charger has been sold and to date only one manufacturer has had any movement on mechanical hand-free charging - of course, the snake. The most recent discussion about the snake was an early iteration of a supercharging solution first and it was some time away for even that. The majority of the EV industry is working toward WEVC. Again, we'd love to see competition as we know all the things that need to be solved for from suppling electricity, integrating into the parking space and into the EV.

    Why Wireless EV Charging:
    We don't really sell against saving a few seconds here or there (not really a reason to go Plugless and our customers really don't buy for that reason). We do quite well selling to EV owners and converting ICE to EV drivers with the promise of forgetting to refuel altogether. Some people come to us b/c they are forgetful, some don't like wranglin' cables, some have physical limitations, others have awkward garages, yes, some of our customers are early adopters, some outdoor chargers have one rain, snow or sleet-storm too many and still others like seamless, frictionless technology. We 100% get it, if you are a hypermilier and/or thrifty this is not the charger for you - it's a premium charger that cannot be compared to commodity corded chargers (Plugless is about 85% more materials and complexity than a corded charger). However, our customers can't imagine going back to the plug, they don't have to think about charging. This is the magic power that we have experienced helps ICE owners consider EVs and why nearly all the EV manufacturers are pursuing wireless EV charging. The manufacturers tell us that perceptions (right or wrong) about the hassles of cords suppresses EV sales

    We have had other Tesla Model S questions that we answered in this post, note when your EVs are delivered it'll be a whole new world: Plugless Charging for Tesla Model S Questions Answered

    Charge on.
     
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