Politics - Quarantine Thread

[JRP3]

All lies, especially given the real Nazi is Putin, who is claiming Elon Musk is a "war criminal", that's a fact, not your invented anti-Musk drivel.

Fact, Elon is friends with Kanye West who has repeatedly publicly stated his love of Hitler and Nazis. Fact, Elon allowed actual Nazis back on Twitter. I didn't "invent" those facts. Putin is a horrible person but I haven't seen him praising Hitler or claiming love for Nazis but maybe I missed that. In any case it's not relevant if he is and doesn't support your case since Elon wanted Ukraine to give up land to him.

 

[JRP3]

By the way, I'm of the same opinion that woke has gone too far.

Sure, and while slightly annoying it's nothing compared to the direction the extreme right has gone, I'm sure you're aware of the many examples. There is this strange narrative that the left went "extreme" while completely ignoring the fact that many traditional conservatives don't even relate to what their own party has become because of the extremists. Asking someone to use your preferred pronouns is not even in the same universe as storming the Capitol.

 

[ElectricIAC]

actual Nazis

The cavalier use of terms that pertain to WW2 axis power combatants (NSDAP) is quite distasteful to those who’s ancestors were affected.

 

[wdolson]

Sure, and while slightly annoying it's nothing compared to the direction the extreme right has gone, I'm sure you're aware of the many examples. There is this strange narrative that the left went "extreme" while completely ignoring the fact that many traditional conservatives don't even relate to what their own party has become because of the extremists. Asking someone to use your preferred pronouns is not even in the same universe as storming the Capitol.

The extreme left has some nutty ideas. The only ones that have been implemented in the US in the last 50 years are use of language: pronouns, overly verbose descriptors (like saying "otherly abled" instead of "handicapped"), and other such attempts to change social norms.

The extreme right tried to overthrow the government and they have some of their members in very influential positions in the House of Representatives. (None of the most extreme in positions of power, but they do have strong influence over those in power.) The members of the far left Progressive Caucus have far less influence on their party's leadership than the far right have on party leadership. Nancy Pelosi never showed any fear of AOC, but Kevin McCarthy appears to be afraid of Greene and Bobert.

The far left did get legislation through many years ago. Many things that were radical notions in their day like women's suffrage, social security retirement, putting people to work doing public works during a depression, later ending the Jim Crow laws in the South, and provided health care benefits for retirees and the disabled. Personally I don't have a problem with any of those things. A republic is supposed to exist for the benefit of its citizens.

I don't believe much coming out of the far left today should become law though. At least not in current form. Some other ideas from the far left that have marinated in the process of moving towards the center are not such bad ideas like universal health care. Those who are able to afford health care benefits are paying now for ER visits for those who can't pay. That contributes to the US having the most expensive health care system in the world with the poorest outcomes (on average) compared to other developed countries.

History has shown what happens if the far rights ideas become law (or control). It's usually very grim for anyone who isn't part of their club. It can also be very grim for neighboring countries. (One prominent member of this group with a very large audience proposed invading Canada recently.)

The cavalier use of terms that pertain to WW2 axis power combatants (NSDAP) is quite distasteful to those who’s ancestors were affected.

Elon allowed Andrew Anglin who is a self proclaimed Nazi back on Twitter. Anglin started the website the Daily Stormer.

Elon Musk just brought an infamous neo-Nazi back to Twitter

Many years ago I stumbled across the Daily Stormer when searching for something completely unrelated. This was long before Google delisted sites like that. Initially I was wondering what I had come across and read a number of posts. It was vile, undiluted Nazi beliefs. Actual Nazis.

I am a student of history and the term "Nazi" has been thrown around for the last 80 years as representing anything bad. Fascist is a more generic term for people who hold extremist nationalistic political beliefs. Though that has its roots in the politics of Benito Mussolini in the 1920s. The German flavor of nationalism had probably the strongest anti-Semitic beliefs in history on top of the extreme nationalism.

The company Elon keeps these days is not a very savory group of people.

Wokism is annoying, it has had influence at some universities, and some other organizations. It has had little impact in law and woke politicians thus far have had only very marginal effect in getting laws through. And the woke crowd have not advocated taking over the government by force. At least if any have, it isn't reported very widely and nobody with any influence is saying it.

Worrying about wokism is worrying about a fly buzzing about when a tiger is stalking you. If wokism starts to get political traction, I will become concerned about it. Political extremes in both directions are unhealthy for a country. But I'm much more concerned about political extremes with real political power than those that are currently annoying, but have little real world power.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Of course there's evidence that the left has gotten more extreme, even Oxford thinks woke has gone too far, so stop blaming everything on Musk and start re-examining your own biases.

You're too funny.

 

[spacerfc]

These are all your opinions and have zero basis in statistical data. But keep confirming your own biases with those opinions, just know that's what you're doing. Being sure of your opinions as fact is a great way to never learn anything.

"The left has gotten more extreme, look at this student newspaper report on a debate team at Oxford as solid evidence, in lieu of something more concrete."

I'll be done here with you so we don't clutter up this thread anymore.

Actually no, these are not at all just my opinions, it's a fact that the young is statistically more liberal leaning, see this for example: https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/spring-2022-harvard-youth-poll

A national poll released today by the Institute of Politics at Harvard Kennedy School indicates that while 18-to-29-year-olds are on track to match 2018’s record-breaking youth turnout in a midterm election this November and prefer Democratic control 55%-34%

In fact it is you who only voiced your opinions and have zero basis in facts, pretty much every time I posted here I bring in supporting evidence in the form of articles, you guys only invent narratives.

 

[Dave EV]

Worrying about wokism is worrying about a fly buzzing about when a tiger is stalking you. If wokism starts to get political traction, I will become concerned about it. Political extremes in both directions are unhealthy for a country. But I'm much more concerned about political extremes with real political power than those that are currently annoying, but have little real world power.

This whole supposed "war on wokism" that Elon supports is dumb, ignorant and self-centered.

1. It's yet another word or symbol that the right has co-opted and turned into a political hot-potato. Other examples include the American Flag, Pepe le Frog, the OK hand signal.

2. What does being "woke" really mean? It means being aware of marginalized groups - eg. people of color, LGBTQ community, people with disabilities, etc. - people who both historically and today are subjected to discrimination at the best, violence and worse.

But life is DRASTICALLY easier when you don't worry about others and go on like you or your tribe are the only people around and step on others to get ahead.

And that's really what people warring against "wokism" represent - selfish, self-centered people who can't be bothered to emphasize with the plight of others.

 

[spacerfc]

Fact, Elon is friends with Kanye West who has repeatedly publicly stated his love of Hitler and Nazis. Fact, Elon allowed actual Nazis back on Twitter. I didn't "invent" those facts. Putin is a horrible person but I haven't seen him praising Hitler or claiming love for Nazis but maybe I missed that. In any case it's not relevant if he is and doesn't support your case since Elon wanted Ukraine to give up land to him.

Not facts, that's just your clueless inventions created to fit your anti-Musk narrative. To claim Putin is not a Nazi just because he didn't say or claim certain things just shows the left has totally lost its senses. A Nazi is not defined by what people says, but is defined by what they *do*. Action is what matters, not words. Putin is literally invading another country, killing and torturing civilians, yet you're equating him with someone like Kanye who just said some stupid sh*t, that just shows how detached from reality your side is.

And of course Putin also said he's anti-Nazi, and that Ukrainians are Nazis, that's why he's invading Ukraine. This just shows words have little meaning when it comes to determining whether someone is a Nazi, it's the action that matters. Fact: Putin is acting like a Nazi, Kanye is not.

In any case, Musk banned Kanye from twitter, along with others who incite violence, so your claim that Musk "promotes" Nazis is a big fat lie regardless of whether Kanye is a Nazi or not. And your claim that "Musk wants Ukraine to give up land to Russia" is also a lie, he never said this, what he proposed is to let people in the annexed region decide if they want to join Russia or not, under UN supervision, that's the complete opposite of "giving land to Russia".

And just to show that "Putin is a Nazi" is not just my opinion:

Is Putin the New Hitler?

Putin's recent rhetoric and actions prompt comparisons to the Nazi dictator

www.voanews.com

According to Jonathan Katz, a German Marshall Fund senior fellow and director of Democracy Initiatives, Putin "is this century's equivalent to Hitler, and the threat he poses to Europe, U.S. and global security extends far beyond the current conflict in Ukraine."

Putin's behavior, statements and demeanor give "a real insight into his character, and for me, he's a 21st-century Hitler," former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said recently on CNN.

Former Ukrainian politician Svitlana Zalishchuk, who has fled Kyiv after intense rocket fire, said on Fox News that Putin is "a Hitler of our time."

The Putin-Hitler comparisons are not new. In 2014, following Russia's annexation of Crimea, Prince Charles of Britain was widely chastised for offhandedly declaring that "Putin is doing just about the same as Hitler."

 

[jabloomf1230]

Oh boy! Get out the .

 

[ElectricIAC]

To a hammer, everything is a nail.

It’s a simple phrase on the surface but has so much meaning when one analyzes the loudest critics. So quick to dismiss and label his motivations as Mental Illness for his alleged act of apostasy.

What if I told you EM isn’t on Team Red or Team Blue? He’s on Team Elon.

 

[wdolson]

Actually no, these are not at all just my opinions, it's a fact that the young is statistically more liberal leaning, see this for example: https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/spring-2022-harvard-youth-poll



In fact it is you who only voiced your opinions and have zero basis in facts, pretty much every time I posted here I bring in supporting evidence in the form of articles, you guys only invent narratives.

On average the generation just coming of voting age now is more liberal than say Gen X was and they tend to be more politically active than the Millennials were at their age. However that does not translate into all people that age are liberal. There are plenty of examples of people under 25 who are in the far right. One example is Kyle Rittenhouse.

Statistically any student publication on many American college campuses today are probably at least left leaning. However there will always be exceptions depending on the individuals and in some cases the university. For example Liberty University probably doesn't have a lot of liberal publications.

Not facts, that's just your clueless inventions created to fit your anti-Musk narrative. To claim Putin is not a Nazi just because he didn't say or claim certain things just shows the left has totally lost its senses. A Nazi is not defined by what people says, but is defined by what they *do*. Action is what matters, not words. Putin is literally invading another country, killing and torturing civilians, yet you're equating him with someone like Kanye who just said some stupid sh*t, that just shows how detached from reality your side is.

And of course Putin also said he's anti-Nazi, and that Ukrainians are Nazis, that's why he's invading Ukraine. This just shows words have little meaning when it comes to determining whether someone is a Nazi, it's the action that matters. Fact: Putin is acting like a Nazi, Kanye is not.

In any case, Musk banned Kanye from twitter, along with others who incite violence, so your claim that Musk "promotes" Nazis is a big fat lie regardless of whether Kanye is a Nazi or not. And your claim that "Musk wants Ukraine to give up land to Russia" is also a lie, he never said this, what he proposed is to let people in the annexed region decide if they want to join Russia or not, under UN supervision, that's the complete opposite of "giving land to Russia".

And just to show that "Putin is a Nazi" is not just my opinion:

Is Putin the New Hitler?

Putin's recent rhetoric and actions prompt comparisons to the Nazi dictator

www.voanews.com

Nazi is a specific term used to describe the ideology of the leadership of Germany from 1933 to 1945. It is an extreme form of fascism. A lot of governments today have fascist leanings: Turkey, Hungary, and Russia to name a few. None have the level of anti-Semitism the Nazis had. Though many have some anti-Semitic leanings.

 

[spacerfc]

What if I told you EM isn’t on Team Red or Team Blue? He’s on Team Elon.

He is, should be obvious to unbiased observers that some of Musk's ideals are right leaning, some are left leaning, or as the TIME article puts it:

James Pethokoukis, an economic analyst with the conservative-leaning American Enterprise Institute, thinks Musk does have a coherent politics, whether or not he articulates it. “The reason it’s confusing is it’s not on the traditional left-right spectrum,” he says. “It is a politics of progress.” At a time when segments of the right and left alike champion protectionist populism—from Republican Senator Josh Hawley’s hostility to free trade to Bernie Sanders’ redistributionism—this puts Musk at odds with both. “It is a view that says the solution to man’s problems is growth and technological progress and maximizing human potential,” Pethokoukis says. “It’s not a view fully represented by either side in this country.”

But right now it is the left (or I should say the far left, since many of Musk's opinions such as peace deal in Ukraine, more population is good, woke has gone too far has supporters in moderate left too) that's attacking Musk constantly, lying about him constantly, trying to bring down his companies constantly, so naturally right now this thread is more focused on left given the topic is Elon Musk, not general politics.

 

[spacerfc]

More anti-Musk drivel from the left, by someone called "Paris Marx" no less:

Elon Musk Should Not Be In Charge of the Night Sky

One of Elon Musk's companies, Starlink, is putting thousands of satellites in space and changing our relationship to the sky

time.com

In case it's not obvious, Musk is not in charge of the sky, Starlink has regulatory approval from ITU and FCC, and the launches are approved by FAA, in fact satellite communication and launch are one of the most heavily regulated industries. But we can't let that inconvenient fact ruin the narrative can we?

And you tell me there's no extremists in the left...

 

[JRP3]

A Nazi is not defined by what people says, but is defined by what they *do*. Action is what matters, not words. Putin is literally invading another country, killing and torturing civilians, yet you're equating him with someone like Kanye who just said some stupid sh*t, that just shows how detached from reality your side is.

So I guess George Bush was a Nazi when he had the US invade Afghanistan and Iraq? You obviously don't know what "Nazi" means.

 

[ElectricIAC]

So I guess George Bush was a Nazi when he had the US invade Afghanistan and Iraq?

Georgie is a lot of things but that he isn’t.

For the record, I am not a fan of his nor of his pop.

 

[JRP3]

The far left did get legislation through many years ago. Many things that were radical notions in their day like women's suffrage, social security retirement, putting people to work doing public works during a depression, later ending the Jim Crow laws in the South, and provided health care benefits for retirees and the disabled. Personally I don't have a problem with any of those things. A republic is supposed to exist for the benefit of its citizens.

FDR was one of the most popular presidents ever, he'd be seen as a radical lefty socialist by some today.

 

[ElectricIAC]

FDR was one of the most popular presidents ever, he'd be seen as a radical lefty socialist by some today.

At least the money mostly stayed stateside until WW2 under FDR.

 

[mspohr]

Don't worry. DeSantis is at war with wokeism. Let's just call him a Fascist.

Last month, DeSantis announced that he would ban the AP African American studies course, saying that the course, which had initially included readings on Black feminism, the Black queer experience, and the Black Lives Matter movement, violated his Stop Woke Act, and was “pushing an agenda on our kids.” In response, the College Board almost immediately dropped the offending material from their curriculum, eliminating instruction in the work of Black feminist thinkers like bell hooks, Angela Davis, and Audre Lorde, and making study of the Black Lives Matter movement “optional.” Instead, the course now encourages research into Black conservatism. The changes to the curriculum are not localized to Florida – they apply to students nationwide. DeSantis’ war on education, it seems, is now a national affair.

In mid-January, DeSantis’ Department of Education issued new guidance to educators, saying that all books that have not been approved by a state compliance censor – euphemistically termed a “school media specialist” – should be concealed or removed from classrooms. Because the law deems some books “pornographic” or “obscene,” it also creates the possibility that teachers who provide books that feature LGBT content to students could be given third-degree felony charges. The guidance prompted teachers in several populous counties to remove books from their classrooms altogether. Photos of bare shelves in classroom libraries went viral; other teachers hid the books from students’ view, draping them behind ominous curtains of paper. There were reports of children crying, and begging for the books back.

As for the activities that are still permitted in schools, DeSantis seems determined to make them as invasive, dangerous, and unpleasant as possible. His administration is weighing whether to require all girls on school athletic teams to answer detailed questions about their menstrual periods in order to participate in sports. The interrogations could come as DeSantis fights to keep trans girls out of sports, and as his Florida Republican party moves to tighten Florida’s abortion ban from an already-strict 15 weeks, to six. The questions would likely discourage sports participation for teenage girls, who would be made to face invasive, intimate, and embarrassing inquiries from prurient adults as a precondition of their athletic lives.

It is in school where they learn that social hierarchies do not necessarily correspond to personal merit; it is in school where they discover the mistakes of the past, and where they gain the tools not to repeat them. No wonder the DeSantis right, with it’s fear of critique and devotion to regressive modes of domination, seems to hostile to letting kids learn: education is how kids grow up to be the kinds of adults they can’t control.

Schools and universities are ground zero for America’s culture war | Moira Donegan

It’s easy to get people riled up and panicked about kids, about a changing culture and about lost innocence. That’s exactly what the right is doing

www.theguardian.com

 

[dafish]

What do you mean neighbors are anonymous and relatively liberal?

For OP— If it keeps happening after speaking with the dad, confront the kid as he does it. Tell him it was funny while it lasted and to stop touching the car cuz it’s getting old. Maybe get his dad involved as you are confronting him. Teenagers don’t like to be caught and confronted. But if you do it assertively and strategically, without losing your cool, that should hopefully put an end to it.

A reasonable question. I wasn't inclined to get too far into details as it's likely OP doesn't have the option set. However, to understand I need to explain.

In my neighborhood we all know each other for at least 5-6 homes. Heck, I know many more than a block away. We all do each other favors, and we all know who we are and what we, a relatively conservative and at least comfortable area, expect of each other and/or will put up with. Given that level of awareness (so not anonymous), peer pressure would keep dad in line, as would the general understanding that we're all not going to put up with that stuff. Ergo Dad and kid would have a lot more than just me/one of us to deal with. In fact, any one of my neighbors would do exactly as you've said as a first step: Call out the kid, speak with dad, and explain what we expect of each other in our community regardless of who's car it was.

Conservative values (not the political definition) remember? This is a not a town inclined to wring our hands, call the cops, or complain "Somebody do something". I suppose we vote about 50/50, but ain't many folks here confused about handling BS in our homes. We did have a brief problem with teen vandals some years ago. Once homes were being harmed and fires being set it was stopped and the police given some names to consider. No, I don't know how, what, or who.

So now what I meant:

1) Either OP is in an area where neighbors don't help each other, or he's seen as a jerk (which is why I said I hope he's in an anonymous area). Can't change much if the former, the latter isn't something he can change quickly. Either way I'd GTFO.

2) As to beliefs and actions, if the local belief system is "call the cops", and/or "somebody do something" right after chanting "defund the police", well, welcome to Portland. BTW, I know and talk to, heck shoot with, a bunch of area LEO's. If readers think they're gonna address "but he touched my car" folks are gonna be disappointed, dad and kid are gonna laugh at you, and it all goes downhill from there.

All of this suggests this: I don't think in terms of Republican or Democrat (I see good and bad in both parties), but I do think extreme liberals spend too much time in fantasy land and otherwise playing the victim. BTW, for balance I think radical conservatives are just as nuts as the extreme libs.

Yep, I live in a rural state with rural behaviors and expectations of each other. Amen and thank you God.

Anyway, lets avoid politics. You asked what I meant, I've done what I can to explain it.

My best to all,

-d

 

[ElectricIAC]

So... the unmatched genius, the smartest businessman on the planet according to some here.... can be “goaded" into blowing $44 billion?

Sure, why not?

That being said, If anyone can make Twitter better than it was under Stasi control it’s EM.