Poll: 3x - 4x mph Refreshed Model S (LR and Plaid) Vibration issue build / VIN ranges

[Ash83]

more options, more part # = continually add costs (less profits? less economy of scale?)

Lol, so people are forced to buy what is only available!!

Yeah their call to do whatever they want, same as customers to choose the vendor that offers what they like.

Less options = less customers = less $$$

Look how tesla grow after introducing the 3 and Y.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Lol, so people are forced to buy what is only available!!

Yeah their call to do whatever they want, same as customers to choose the vendor that offers what they like.

Less options = less customers = less $$$

Look how tesla grow after introducing the 3 and Y.

Yeah, I'm not interested in lucid until they introduce the tri-motor version....

 

[Warbird]

I guarantee if you let me drive any single Plaid I could feel the vibration and make the owner aware of it. It's in all of them.

This front vibration is in every "Plaid"?!
Does that square with the thread Poll (just asking if those results were vetted)?

Obviously this nasty front vibration is not in my RWD 2017 Model S 75
There was a motor whine I did not like in the 75D at the time.
But it was not the scary front vibration, low rumble that reeks of something loose and grinding, described here.

Which other AWD Model S is it in?
When did it start?
Is it only in the "Performance" models?
How has the design of the front drive unit changed over the years?

I attached a spreadsheet of all the drive units by model, that I came across in 2017.
It looks like all of the AWD Model S cars up to that point had the same 259hp front motor.
We know the rotors in the Plaid are wrapped with carbon fiber and have a higher output.
But I would imagine all of them have the same unequal length drive shafts (my theory of one contributing cause).

If the problem started with the "Refreshed" Model S "Performance" in 2020(?), then Tesla might look into that design for the introduction of the cause.

If any of that is true, the unicorn, the most recent Model S AWD without the problem, could be a Sep 2017 thru 2020, AP2.0+, Model S 100D.
That car could be upgraded to MCU2 and HW3.0, and be as up to date as the Plaid.
And it would come with a real steering wheel

Lets fix this...I want to upgrade!

 

[n2mb_racing]

This front vibration is in every "Plaid"?!
Does that square with the thread Poll (just asking if those results were vetted)?

Obviously this nasty front vibration is not in my RWD 2017 Model S 75
There was a motor whine I did not like in the 75D at the time.
But it was not the scary front vibration, low rumble that reeks of something loose and grinding, described here.

Which other AWD Model S is it in?
When did it start?
Is it only in the "Performance" models?
How has the design of the front drive unit changed over the years?

I attached a spreadsheet of all the drive units by model, that I came across in 2017.
It looks like all of the AWD Model S cars up to that point had the same 259hp front motor.
We know the rotors in the Plaid are wrapped with carbon fiber and have a higher output.
But I would imagine all of them have the same unequal length drive shafts (my theory of one contributing cause).

If the problem started with the "Refreshed" Model S "Performance" in 2020(?), then Tesla might look into that design for the introduction of the cause.

If any of that is true, the unicorn, the most recent Model S AWD without the problem, could be a Sep 2017 thru 2020, AP2.0+, Model S 100D.
That car could be upgraded to MCU2 and HW3.0, and be as up to date as the Plaid.
And it would come with a real steering wheel

Lets fix this...I want to upgrade!

I think it only started with the refresh in 2021. I think a number of things changed in the front motor, including they started using the latest part number half-shafts from the Raven model X in the Model S plaid.

I drove a '22 refresh S yesterday and I could not feel the vibrations, despite knowing very clearly what they feel like on my car, a '21 plaid. So, it doesn't seem to be affecting all of them. Something in the tolerances of the parts, something mis-manufactured, misaligned, or whatever.

 

[Ash83]

I think it only started with the refresh in 2021. I think a number of things changed in the front motor, including they started using the latest part number half-shafts from the Raven model X in the Model S plaid.

I drove a '22 refresh S yesterday and I could not feel the vibrations, despite knowing very clearly what they feel like on my car, a '21 plaid. So, it doesn't seem to be affecting all of them. Something in the tolerances of the parts, something mis-manufactured, misaligned, or whatever.

Was it 22 refresh+ with the new lights?

 

[n2mb_racing]

Was it 22 refresh+ with the new lights?

Two weeks short of that. Old lights. Less than a month old.

 

[Ash83]

Like my car 2/12 build. I feel very very light vibration on the pedal with light acceleration around 40.

 

[jebinc]

Like my car 2/12 build. I feel very very light vibration on the pedal with light acceleration around 40.

Yep, give it some time and miles….

 

[WilliamG]

I think it only started with the refresh in 2021. I think a number of things changed in the front motor, including they started using the latest part number half-shafts from the Raven model X in the Model S plaid.

I drove a '22 refresh S yesterday and I could not feel the vibrations, despite knowing very clearly what they feel like on my car, a '21 plaid. So, it doesn't seem to be affecting all of them. Something in the tolerances of the parts, something mis-manufactured, misaligned, or whatever.

How many miles on that refresh, though? My ‘21 Plaid didn’t have the vibration until ~1500 miles.

 

[emailforbrett]

Vibration is back after about 1,500 miles post-half shaft replacement. Well that was worth it.

 

[WilliamG]

Vibration is back after about 1,500 miles post-half shaft replacement. Well that was worth it.

There's no point replacing those half shafts. Tesla appears to have no clue how to fix this, sadly.

 

[jebinc]

There's no point replacing those half shafts. Tesla appears to have no clue how to fix this, sadly.

None, as in no clue or desire.

 

[Warbird]

I think it only started with the refresh in 2021. I think a number of things changed in the front motor, including they started using the latest part number half-shafts from the Raven model X in the Model S plaid.

I drove a '22 refresh S yesterday and I could not feel the vibrations, despite knowing very clearly what they feel like on my car, a '21 plaid. So, it doesn't seem to be affecting all of them. Something in the tolerances of the parts, something mis-manufactured, misaligned, or whatever.

I used the wrong term "Refreshed" for the 2019 change. I meant "Raven", which I think is more descriptive.

The front motor changes I have found documented are:
2014 - "259hp front motor"
2019 - "Raven" - Permanent magnet motor introduced with M3
2020 - "Plaid" - Carbon fiber wrapped rotors

Questions:
1. What is the detailed history of front drive train design changes?
2. When did the vibration problem start? Sounds like we are saying "Plaid"?
3. What are the attempted fixes (drive shafts, lowering, etc.)?
4. What works?

The fact that the earliest 259hp design was vibration free, had unequal drive shaft lengths, and was not lowered; should give us hope there is a fix with the existing (off center differential) front drive train.

Best guesses:
A. The Carbon fiber Wrap is out of balance?
B. The higher output motor is exciting un-forseen tolerances in the system (bearings, etc.)?
C. Some other suspension geometry was changed that now has a resonance that leads to the vibration?

...

Research:
Found a great site that lists model changes:

Tesla Model S history of changes by year

Tesla Model S history of changes by year, we list all the hardware changes and major updates

tesla-info.com

Here is a summary of the drive train changes it lists:

2014 - "259hp front motor"
2014 MS - MS P85 and P85+ models replaced by the P85D.
2014 MS MS - 85D launched with a smaller rear motor to the P85D. The 85 single motor car continues.
2015 MS - Ludicrous was introduced, paid retro fit to the P85D/P90D replacing the previous Insane mode.
2016 MS - Model S face-lift
2016 MS MX - MS P100D introduced superseding the P90D. The P100D initially had ludicrous option.
2017 MS - Smart Air Suspension became standard across all MS models
2019 MS MX - Smart air suspension changed to an Adaptive air suspension system on the MS and MX

2019 - "Raven" - Permanent magnet motor
2019 MS MX - MS and MX front and non P rear motors changed to the permanent magnet version first seen in the M3.
2019 MS MX - As of the motor change and Raven, Standard Range, Long Range and Performance etc.
2019 MS MX M3 - 5% Power increase and 1 foot driving (Permanent magnet cars only, ie Raven MS and MX, and M3)
2020 MS MX - Performance boost for Raven Performance models and new Cheetah stance launch. (SW 2020.12.5)
2020 MS MX - Enhanced suspension options and dynamic brake lights (SW 2020.32.1)

2020 - "Plaid" - Carbon Fiber wrapped rotor
2020 MS - Plaid announced and order book opened although not due until late 2021 at best
2020 MS MX - New battery with slightly better range and performance (code BTXA)
2021 MS - Plaid+ dropped. Musk cites the Plaid is as good as you could want.

 

[n2mb_racing]

I used the wrong term "Refreshed" for the 2019 change. I meant "Raven", which I think is more descriptive.

The front motor changes I have found documented are:
2014 - "259hp front motor"
2019 - "Raven" - Permanent magnet motor introduced with M3
2020 - "Plaid" - Carbon fiber wrapped rotors

Questions:
1. What is the detailed history of front drive train design changes?
2. When did the vibration problem start? Sounds like we are saying "Plaid"?
3. What are the attempted fixes (drive shafts, lowering, etc.)?
4. What works?

The fact that the earliest 259hp design was vibration free, had unequal drive shaft lengths, and was not lowered; should give us hope there is a fix with the existing (off center differential) front drive train.

Best guesses:
A. The Carbon fiber Wrap is out of balance?
B. The higher output motor is exciting un-forseen tolerances in the system (bearings, etc.)?
C. Some other suspension geometry was changed that now has a resonance that leads to the vibration?

...

Research:
Found a great site that lists model changes:

Tesla Model S history of changes by year

Tesla Model S history of changes by year, we list all the hardware changes and major updates

tesla-info.com

Here is a summary of the drive train changes it lists:

2014 - "259hp front motor"
2014 MS - MS P85 and P85+ models replaced by the P85D.
2014 MS MS - 85D launched with a smaller rear motor to the P85D. The 85 single motor car continues.
2015 MS - Ludicrous was introduced, paid retro fit to the P85D/P90D replacing the previous Insane mode.
2016 MS - Model S face-lift
2016 MS MX - MS P100D introduced superseding the P90D. The P100D initially had ludicrous option.
2017 MS - Smart Air Suspension became standard across all MS models
2019 MS MX - Smart air suspension changed to an Adaptive air suspension system on the MS and MX

2019 - "Raven" - Permanent magnet motor
2019 MS MX - MS and MX front and non P rear motors changed to the permanent magnet version first seen in the M3.
2019 MS MX - As of the motor change and Raven, Standard Range, Long Range and Performance etc.
2019 MS MX M3 - 5% Power increase and 1 foot driving (Permanent magnet cars only, ie Raven MS and MX, and M3)
2020 MS MX - Performance boost for Raven Performance models and new Cheetah stance launch. (SW 2020.12.5)
2020 MS MX - Enhanced suspension options and dynamic brake lights (SW 2020.32.1)

2020 - "Plaid" - Carbon Fiber wrapped rotor
2020 MS - Plaid announced and order book opened although not due until late 2021 at best
2020 MS MX - New battery with slightly better range and performance (code BTXA)
2021 MS - Plaid+ dropped. Musk cites the Plaid is as good as you could want.

Good summary. I think the gearing on the front motor changed with the refresh "plaid" in 2021. Reduced gearing to achieve higher top speed, I believe.

 

[Ed Hart]

Had this, it was the bracket that holds up the passenger rear seat. Wrapped it in electrical tape and the rattle went away. Have done this on a few cars.

Would appreciate a photo of exactly what you did.
On my previous Model S, the rear seats had a perfect mechanical latch and release that was very solid when latched
My new Model S has the electric latch, and I have the noise on both rear seats.

 

[WilliamG]

Would appreciate a photo of exactly what you did.
On my previous Model S, the rear seats had a perfect mechanical latch and release that was very solid when latched
My new Model S has the electric latch, and I have the noise on both rear seats.

If ever there's a pointless feature on the new S, it's the electronic latch. I guess it does feel "premium" since it's not a manual one, but... still very oddly half-baked compared to the Y, where the seats flip forward by themselves. I wish Tesla saved the money they spent on the pretty pointless trunk buttons, and put money into... oh I dunno... fixing the vibration issue!

 

[Ed Hart]

If ever there's a pointless feature on the new S, it's the electronic latch. I guess it does feel "premium" since it's not a manual one, but... very still oddly half-baked compared to the Y.

Fully agreed. Similar latch on X works, but the car is so noisy that if the latch is making noise, I will never hear it. NVH anyone??

 

[Ed Hart]

So,

Would appreciate a photo of exactly what you did.
On my previous Model S, the rear seats had a perfect mechanical latch and release that was very solid when latched
My new Model S has the electric latch, and I have the noise on both rear seats.

Well.....a bit embarrassing to have to do this on a #100K car but I followed your lead. I used Gorilla Tape, two wraps. Problem solved.....for the time being.

 

[Jameslook]

I used moleskin that is made for high heat automotive use. I bought 5 feet and now use it on everything. HAH! This is it. MoleSkin stickyback Felt by the length, stop rattles, squeaks, line your hard plastic bins and more