Poll: Is FSD Worth the Cost?

[M3DP]

I fear Tesla is on the wrong track with FSD. 90% of the driving I (and many others) do is Home-->Work-->Home every day. I should be able to program everything about that route... where every stop sign is, where every stop light is, the rules for each intersection, location of the actual lights, my preferred lane, speed, etc. It will be great if FSD gets to the point of working in unfamiliar environment. But it would have SO MUCH more daily utility if I could program it to be a good self driver on my usual route.

It will be nice to get HW3 installed, but I don't think useful FSD is going to work without additional sensors, and there is not way they'll reach level 5.

I bought FSD because I already had EAP (there was no included standard autopilot in 2018). If I were buying a car today, there is no way I would pay $7k for FSD.

Great idea! I never really thought of this, but you are correct, this would be a brilliant capability, and would also provide more data for them to learn from. Almost like crowd sourced development. You could program all the routes from all the point A to point B locations the owner cares about. Different levels of complexity for different situations (freeway off ramps vs. a 4 way stop in a residential area). I like to drive my own car anyway, but this would accelerate FSD for those with a long, boring commute.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Great idea! I never really thought of this, but you are correct, this would be a brilliant capability, and would also provide more data for them to learn from. Almost like crowd sourced development. You could program all the routes from all the point A to point B locations the owner cares about. Different levels of complexity for different situations (freeway off ramps vs. a 4 way stop in a residential area). I like to drive my own car anyway, but this would accelerate FSD for those with a long, boring commute.

Like a user learned and configurable supercruise? Hmm....

 

[holmgang]

A dumbed down version of FSD is AP.

No, in many ways AP is less functional than a "traditional" cruise system, with or without radar control.

A traditional system allows user to set a target maximum speed, and resume that speed.

AP will override the target speed with a new speed based on the mapping engine (or something else). And if the AP is disabled, whether from hitting the stalks or the brake, the target speed is RESET back to a default. The original target speed is lost and cannot be resumed.

This is a frustratingly overbearing behavior, and poor UX

 

[ricksastro]

I have FSD. Use NOAP once each SW release and, yep, still drives like a 12 year old then turn it off.

While using TACC and Autosteer (not in NOAP), I actually only want Auto Lane change with the turn signal about 50% of the time, mostly on long trips without much traffic. For daily driving, I'd rather change lanes myself and currently to do that I have to overtake the steering (turning off Autosteer) or cancel TACC and Autosteer with the stalk, all creating beeps. There's no way to disable Auto Lane change with turn signal if you're in Autosteer.

I'd actually love a feature where I could have my car act like a standard AP car by disabling auto lane change when I want. Even better, simply suspend autosteer when I hit the blinker and auto re-enable it when I turn off the blinker!

 

[ElectricIAC]

No, in many ways AP is less functional than a "traditional" cruise system, with or without radar control.

A traditional system allows user to set a target maximum speed, and resume that speed.

AP will override the target speed with a new speed based on the mapping engine (or something else). And if the AP is disabled, whether from hitting the stalks or the brake, the target speed is RESET back to a default. The original target speed is lost and cannot be resumed.

This is a frustratingly overbearing behavior, and poor UX

I’d love to see a dialogue that lets you turn off TACC and just enable dumb cruise if that’s what you’re needing at that time.

 

[kkarlin]

i had the same experience as you, NOA drives like an moron. anyone who says differently is wrong or doesnt know how to drive lol. Its more of a party trick at the moment, FSD is nowhere near done in my opinion.

I have a 2019 M3 with AP only, a 2019 Model X with FSD, and a 2020 Model X with FSD. They all handle AP very well (not perfectly, but very well), FSD for the 2 Model Xs is very good as well, my largest complaint being that we have a lot of construction with lane cones and FSD always wants to move away from them even though they are a few feet inside the lane they're blocking off. Today I go a P100D as a loaner, and I turned on FSD on the highway for about a minute, then turned it off. The car was floating in the lane and it felt very risky to have AP / FSD in control of the vehicle. I believe it's a 2017, which would mean significantly older HW, and the options for fine-tuning the AP functions aren't even there (which I thought was weird). Anyway, my point is that HW plays a big part in how the AP "feels" to the occupants - much more so than I would have believed without witnessing it first hand. While I won't be using AP or FSD for the duration of the loaner, I will take advantage of Ludicruous and L+ modes

 

[ElectricIAC]

I have a 2019 M3 with AP only, a 2019 Model X with FSD, and a 2020 Model X with FSD. They all handle AP very well (not perfectly, but very well), FSD for the 2 Model Xs is very good as well, my largest complaint being that we have a lot of construction with lane cones and FSD always wants to move away from them even though they are a few feet inside the lane they're blocking off. Today I go a P100D as a loaner, and I turned on FSD on the highway for about a minute, then turned it off. The car was floating in the lane and it felt very risky to have AP / FSD in control of the vehicle. I believe it's a 2017, which would mean significantly older HW, and the options for fine-tuning the AP functions aren't even there (which I thought was weird). Anyway, my point is that HW plays a big part in how the AP "feels" to the occupants - much more so than I would have believed without witnessing it first hand. While I won't be using AP or FSD for the duration of the loaner, I will take advantage of Ludicruous and L+ modes

For one, congrats on getting a loaner. Even HW3 has its own issues but thankfully left lane camp mode is abated.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

The only thing I find actually useful with FSD is the ability to lane change without disabling autopilot. This frustrates me to no end as the constant need to disable and re-enable just to change lanes, which is quite counter-intuitive as it forces you to shift focus.

As someone who took advantage of the ability to have EAP, I think it would be very sensible for Tesla to offer something like the original EAP as a US$3K upgrade on Autopilot. There'd be a bunch of owners who'd take that option.

They could even drop Smart Summon and auto-lane change capability from the package, without significantly impacting its value. Self park, simple summon and NoA have substantial value.

 

[ElectricIAC]

As someone who took advantage of the ability to have EAP, I think it would be very sensible for Tesla to offer something like the original EAP as a US$3K upgrade on Autopilot. There'd be a bunch of owners who'd take that option.

They could even drop Smart Summon and NoA auto-lane change from the package, without significantly impacting its value.

I’d take that deal in exchange for a $4,250 refund (after tax)

 

[Beprimeau]

I agree that FSD is disappointing so far. I do use it on the freeway and I find it makes driving about 50% less stressful. I have learned not to trust it in any situation where there are changes in the lanes / on ramps / off ramps, but that is a small percentage of my driving. However, it is not worth the $7000 in its current state. However I regard it as an investment in the future and wanting to be in on it when / if it improves down the road (!). If it could recognize stop lights and stop signs that would be a big improvement.

 

[navguy12]

Give me dumb cruise control that doesn't have a possibility of phantom braking and/or not working at all because the radar receiver has a coating of ice blocking it. I'll even sign the legal waiver...

And as for NOA, if it wants to move into the passing lane, it should automatically match that lane's speed of flow instead of becoming a rolling road block (if left to its own devices)

 

[Christran12]

yeah lane changing without disabling ap is amazing and yeah.. the main reason its worth it

Wait, I have AP1 and have always been able to change lanes without disabling autopilot. I just signal and as long as the next lane is clear, the car takes care of it. Are you guy talking about something else?

 

[ElectricIAC]

Give me dumb cruise control that doesn't have a possibility of phantom braking and/or not working at all because the radar receiver has a coating of ice blocking it. I'll even sign the legal waiver...

And as for NOA, if it wants to move into the passing lane, it should automatically match that lane's speed of flow instead of becoming a rolling road block (if left to its own devices)

I have a problem with the car wanting to be a rolling roadblock all on its own and matching speed of car next lane over when attempting to pass. I get the adjacent lane stuff but when it’s less than a handful (and especially when it’s just one single) of cars it’s more than a little questionable. I’d really like to turn that “feature” off.

 

[seaweed]

Lots of feedback on this topic with most unhappy with NOA. When my wife uses our 2017 S 100D she does not use NOA. I use it as a novelty to see what it will do this time as it has a mind of its own. My S is now pretty obsolete in regards to all the new hardware with uncertainty on hardware upgrade. Next year it will be four years old and out of warranty. I will debating buying a new Tesla or returning to ICE. I doubt FSD will happen in my lifetime.

 

[SalisburySam]

My thinking about FSD has changed over the last 20 months since I’ve had my Model 3 with EAP/FSD. I probably would not get FSD again if I had it to do over. I also wish TACC had a dumb cruise option, but that’s another thread. I now think if you are giving up something else to get FSD, such as longer range, or higher performance, or anything else that really adds significant ownership value today, that’s probably not what I’d do. I bought into the FSD-hype, just around the corner, helping the mothership learning exercise, yatta, yatta, but not so much today. Anything resembling L3-L4 is likely on my next vehicle, not this one, and I’ve turned more and more pessimistic as time goes on.

As I look back, I could’ve used that extra $3k for a lot of decent wine, at least two dinners in Paris at a Michelin 3-star restaurant, or about 60 lb of an excellent coffee bean. Any would have given my wife and I much more pleasure in this world of instant gratification.

 

[kungfujoe]

Considering that there isn't a single FSD feature available yet, it's definitely not currently worth the money. The EAP features that have been stripped from Basic Autopilot are kinda nice, but not $7K nice. Navigate On Autopilot likes to get into the passing lane for no reason, take the wrong exit, get into lanes right before they end, etc. Summon is a cool novelty that isn't yet reliable enough to be really useful. The one really useful feature that's in EAP but not BAP is commanded lane changing when in Autopilot. But $7K to change lanes without exiting Autopilot? Nah.

(Side note: Nissan's new Autopilot-like feature is actually pretty decent, and they handle lane changing in a way that would really help BAP users - signaling temporarily turns lane-keeping off until you change lanes, and then it turns it back on automatically. I hope Tesla adds something like that for BAP owners).

I hope that someday, the $7K price tag will seem reasonable, but they'll have to add quite a few features that haven't even been announced yet.

 

[bhwithun]

The best value I get out of FSD is that when I'm driving through a place where I am unfamiliar, the system can tell me exactly which lane is best to be in, and recommend that I get in that lane. Google maps can essential so this same thing, but then Google maps does not know which lane I am actually in and so is slightly less helpful about suggesting maneuvers.

I recently drive through Chicago and found my car's suggestions very helpful and very timely. This does not fully justify the additional cost, but it does serve me well while I am waiting for the system to mature.

 

[foreis]

Good afternoon everyone,

After 10 months with EAP, I have mixed feelings on the whole thing. I think autopilot is fantastic, and use it every day.

But I find NOA to be an extremely frustrating experience because of how it manages the lane I'm in. It wants to change lanes whenever the car in front of me is going 2 MPH slower, at which point it cuts off the guy next to me, and stays parked in front of him for the next couple miles until it decides to move over. Taking exit ramps automatically is nice, but overall I don't find NOA to be helpful, which adds no value to me.

I was really excited for Enhanced Summon to be released. But after awkwardly blocking parking lots a couple times, I realized in current form it's not useful for anything other than a mostly empty parking lot. I would much rather it be cautious than risk hitting things, but if it has to be THIS cautious to be safe, I don't find it useful.

At this point, FSD isn't yet available, but after seeing how NOA and enhanced summon have been implemented, I have a tough time being optimistic. If are making another purchase today, I would opt for the standard autopilot and nothing more. I'm curious to know what you guys think? Is it worth forking over the money with the expectation that these features and FSD will evolve and be great? Or do you think it's unlikely they will add $7000 in value to your driving experience?

 

[ElectricIAC]

I recently drive through Chicago and found my car's suggestions very helpful and very timely. This does not fully justify the additional cost, but it does serve me well while I am waiting for the system to mature.

I suppose if you’re in an unfamiliar place it can be helpful, sure but you could do the same without FSD features by following the instructions on the map.

 

[foreis]

I guess I’m “an moron” as depicted by coconut. I find myself liking the NOA more and more with each passing trip I take. It isn’t perfect and isn’t yet supposed to be as highlighted by Tesla itself. Still in Beta. However, the more we all use it, the more the neural network is learning and tweaking making it much more user friendly than when I got my Model 3 in August, 2019. When I opted for FSD it wasn’t because I expected it to be fully functional then but I knew it would be improved upon over the air bit by bit at no additional cost ($5000 then).
So, I’m happy with my decision and am as of this writing $2000 to the good. Who knows what the future holds?