[Poll] P3 Free Lifetime Unlimited Supercharging vs. $5,000 Refund

[dhrivnak]

Charging at home is so convenient and easy I just can’t imagine SuperCharging just to save a Few bucks. It is great when traveling but near home it is just a time drain.

 

[MXWing]

Charging at home is so convenient and easy I just can’t imagine SuperCharging just to save a Few bucks. It is great when traveling but near home it is just a time drain.

Previous napkin math had me showing FUSC worth $12 an hour not counting transit times to and from a FUSC if you were able to charge without delay 100 percent of the time.

 

[UltralightBeam]

In addition, aren't there some supercharging locations that offer free supercharging to all regardless if you have the option or not? Locations that are paying for the electricity vs Tesla paying for the electricity?

 

[Garlan Garner]

In addition, aren't there some supercharging locations that offer free supercharging to all regardless if you have the option or not? Locations that are paying for the electricity vs Tesla paying for the electricity?

LOL....I doubt you will get very many replies..

 

[Jedi2155]

Just curious. If you have decent charging rate/capability at home, why are superchargers your primary method? Is it located at a place you frequent often and spend time at? Or do you just sit there in your car?

I've been an EV driver for over 10 years and learned to be flexible with my time resources especially given the limited charging resources in the early days.

• I have a choice on 3 superchargers locations on my route home from work (30 miles) all < 2 miles / 5 minutes off the main route.
• I have terrible traffic, if I try to go home straight away (1 to 1.5 hours). If i wait and SC, that travel time is reduced to 40 minutes.
• 2/3 locations have decent dining options for dinner. Fun to talk to other Tesla owners and a place to setup my laptop.
• There isn't much difference to me being mobile, vs. at home. Wife works nightshift anyways, no kids. I have 3 laptops and a phone. I could be doing work, TMC, movie, play games all on the go. I also work more effectively when I'm NOT at home.
• I'm also relatively use to sleeping in car. I think my Volt was more comfortable though.....but the quickness of the supercharge makes it kinda difficult for 1-2 hour naps. I normally sleep 4-6 hrs a night anyways so any naps during the day help.

So there's my reasoning summarized.

 

[N54TT]

I've been an EV driver for over 10 years and learned to be flexible with my time resources especially given the limited charging resources in my early days.

• I have a choice on 3 superchargers locations on my route home from work (30 miles) all < 2 miles / 5 minutes off the main route.
• I have terrible traffic, if I try to go home straight away (1 to 1.5 hours). If i wait and SC, that travel time is reduced to 40 minutes.
• 2/3 locations have decent dining options for dinner. Fun to talk to other Tesla owners and a place to setup my laptop.
• There isn't much difference to me being mobile, vs. at home. Wife works nightshift anyways, no kids. I have 3 laptops and a phone. I could be doing work, TMC, movie, play games all on the go. I also work more effectively when I'm NOT at home.
• I'm also relatively use to sleeping in car. I think my Volt was more comfortable though.....but the quickness of the supercharge makes it kinda difficult for 1-2 hour naps. I normally sleep 4-6 hrs a night anyways so any naps during the day help.

So there's my reasoning summarized.

Sounds like I’d have a harder time deciding if I was in the same situation.

 

[Perry]

So my nifty calculator tells me that at $1/kwh, it would take 3.6 years to break-even assuming 2400 supercharge miles a year which is likely how much I would use if that was the case. I would reach it around 87000 miles which is quite reasonable length of time.

Definitely makes sense to keep FUSC in this case.

View attachment 370292

I think $0.50/kWh is more likely in the next 5 years, and that's only in California and a few high priced states (it might be half that in other states). Beyond that, it's going to get priced out of the market IMO (unless something else happens). With that value, it would take 5 years to break even around 117k miles.

Makes sense to keep FUSC for many people who road trip their cars.

View attachment 370291

Right now at $0.34/kWh, the break even point is 5.5 years at 131k miles. With the previous $0.26, it was 5.8 years.
View attachment 370293

I haven't requested my FUSC for $5k yet and while it makes sense for me to exchange, I'm still hesitant.....(they just built a 24 stall urban charger literally a block away from my office which makes me if i gave up FUSC).

You have to think of it like this. If you no FUSC was ever given to you, would you buy it for $5000. A lot of people would say no if propositioned like this.

 

[UltralightBeam]

LOL....I doubt you will get very many replies..

So far just yours! But really, I did hear it on Ryan's Podcast about a chain of bakeries I think in Texas that two locations had 'normal' superchargers where Tesla paid pretty much for everything including electricity. But in the latest one, they adjusted their terms to have the land owner or business owner pay the electricity costs citing how much business that Tesla owners would bring to them.

So that's why I questioned "Locations that are paying for the electricity vs Tesla paying for the electricity?" as I think I caught some people posted here that they've been charged at some locations but not others.

 

[israndy]

What if you total your car?

And lose my grandfathered unlimited Internet? Scary!

-Randy

 

[Maximilien]

Here's my 2 cents qualitative as you've done the quantitative.

I think there is 4 variables at play:

What is known:

FUSC doesn’t even make financial sense at even $1 KWH

SC negative impact to battery? ? As I don’t know myself the answer authoritatively.

Forgone opportunity cost of driving more advanced Tesla’s in the coming years to hang on to FUSC.

Forgone economic profit:

5000 towards solar infrastructure versus FUSC
5000 towards loan principle or some other debt.
16.7 TSLA shares today. Could be 20 shares Tuesday or could be 12 shares Tuesday.
Is the $5,000 credit going towards appreciating assets, debt reduction, or some other dumb spending equivalent to $5,000 dumb FUSC spending?

What is unknown:

Future price increases though unlikely to reach $1 CPI adjusted, ceteris paribus.

Supercharger V3 network compatibility, would reduce time opportunity cost of supercharging.

More SC stations, creating more convenient charging options.

FSD charging without user intervention. This reduces or potentially eliminates time opportunity cost of charging.

Does Tesla reintroduce FUSC later? If so, not claiming $5,000 would be epic fail.

Why doesn’t Tesla offer FUSC for $5000 or more as it’s proven to “not make sense” so it becomes “profit” for them? My theory on why Tesla does not do this is because of time of demand charging that outweighs the delta between FUSC revenue and FUSC COGs.

What if you total your car?

Can you replace your battery, and at what cost? (Setting up new opportunity costs of $ between 2018 Model 3 and future Tesla)


What is human:

FREE *sugar*. WOOOOOOOOOOO (Though nothing in life is "free" not love, not death, nothing)

Exclusivity. You have it and no one else can get it. You can't even buy it. Not on a Model 3 anyways.

Fear of the unknown. Predictive analysis only goes so far and gets less accurate the further you go into the future.

--

Looking at things qualitatively, I have decided to not submit my request for $5,000 even though it makes every sense to do so for the consumer.

To Tesla, they must feel, the delivery cost of $5,000 is more than a $5,000 check.

The reason is there hasn't been an expiration date that has been established. It makes sense to just hang on to a call option that has no theta decay. WHY Tesla is so horrible at pricing their options I don't know but I'm finally confident at the model needed to exploit it going forward.

"What is human" on your list is keeping me hold the FUSC for now.

You are so right that it makes financially no sense to keep FUSC over $5k in any way.

I guess that's what makes me "human" and that may be a good thing.

 

[mswlogo]

Just another data point

Requested via Escalated Service request on my account through website.

In 6 days got the “are you sure, please provide postal address” message via email. That was Jan 9. Today Jan 23 I received a check.

Also got MA $2500 rebate. Now just the federal tax refund. Worried govt shutdown is gonna mess that up.

 

[Nate977p]

I am on the other side of the equation here; I know I am the extreme case. I live in an apartment that does not have charging. The building is managed by a national company, thus no real interest from corporate. I talked to the local manager and they really have no authority. The garage is managed by another company that could care less; talked to a high-up there who blew me off. Really no way to get home charging and I have tried. I love the apartment, but started looking at others due to lack of charging. The problem is everything else that is comparable is 30-70% more in rent; we have just a fantastic deal. Thus home-charging is a non-starter for me. In addition, many days I have to SC 2 or more times, thus home charging only would accomplish some of my charging. I have been to a SC 3 times for an almost empty to 80/90% charge in the last 48 hours and this has been a very light driving week

Besides the fiscal and tangible need for FUSC I see the following pluses:

• Gives me much greater access to travel. Trips that were 8 hours away for me, now are essentially free if I drive, thus makes taking a spontaneous trip cheaper and easier.
• The SC is about 7-10 minutes away from me. There is a commercial only road that is about .5 miles from my apt on one end and .5 miles from the SC on the other end. The city is running a pilot to allow pubic access on this road, thus i have what is almost literally a secret road direct to the SC with no traffic, even during rush hour IN BOSTON (DON'T TELL ANYONE ).
• I see this as being a forever car even if it is not always my primary. It continues to get better with updates. I also bought FSD, thus should have the latest hardware for some time. In addition, I have the free lifetime internet. Thus this car is as futureproof as any care can be and will keep getting better!
• As for my time, as I said, the SC is very close and easy to get to. The plaza it is in has all the shopping I need to do and a few restaurants. I can easily setup my laptop and do the same work I would be doing at home, or be on a conference call. The time loss has been pretty minimal. Other SC are also very well placed and easily accessed on my travels.

As for the economics of this I did a quick spreadsheet. I am planning on writing a longer post at some point about being a high-mileage driver living off of SC, but this is the TL;DR. I have had the car for 4 months, pretty much to the day, and it has not been driven for almost a month of that; I still calculated off of 4 months though. My break-even on the $5,000 is 17.22 months (I didn't factor in potential interest I could earn on the $5,000 since my ROI was so quick and I have other things to do tonight ). Also, I have had some issues with TeslaFi logging, thus cannot trust that for more than a SC vs other charging %. One item I neglected is vampire drain and heating drain as the lifetime 330wh is from the car's lifetime meter, thus it is probably a chunk higher than that. Here you are:

 

[mswlogo]

I am on the other side of the equation here; I know I am the extreme case. I live in an apartment that does not have charging. The building is managed by a national company, thus no real interest from corporate. I talked to the local manager and they really have no authority. The garage is managed by another company that could care less; talked to a high-up there who blew me off. Really no way to get home charging and I have tried. I love the apartment, but started looking at others due to lack of charging. The problem is everything else that is comparable is 30-70% more in rent; we have just a fantastic deal. Thus home-charging is a non-starter for me. In addition, many days I have to SC 2 or more times, thus home charging only would accomplish some of my charging. I have been to a SC 3 times for an almost empty to 80/90% charge in the last 48 hours and this has been a very light driving week

Besides the fiscal and tangible need for FUSC I see the following pluses:

• Gives me much greater access to travel. Trips that were 8 hours away for me, now are essentially free if I drive, thus makes taking a spontaneous trip cheaper and easier.
• The SC is about 7-10 minutes away from me. There is a commercial only road that is about .5 miles from my apt on one end and .5 miles from the SC on the other end. The city is running a pilot to allow pubic access on this road, thus i have what is almost literally a secret road direct to the SC with no traffic, even during rush hour IN BOSTON (DON'T TELL ANYONE ).
• I see this as being a forever car even if it is not always my primary. It continues to get better with updates. I also bought FSD, thus should have the latest hardware for some time. In addition, I have the free lifetime internet. Thus this car is as futureproof as any care can be and will keep getting better!
• As for my time, as I said, the SC is very close and easy to get to. The plaza it is in has all the shopping I need to do and a few restaurants. I can easily setup my laptop and do the same work I would be doing at home, or be on a conference call. The time loss has been pretty minimal. Other SC are also very well placed and easily accessed on my travels.

As for the economics of this I did a quick spreadsheet. I am planning on writing a longer post at some point about being a high-mileage driver living off of SC, but this is the TL;DR. I have had the car for 4 months, pretty much to the day, and it has not been driven for almost a month of that; I still calculated off of 4 months though. My break-even on the $5,000 is 17.22 months (I didn't factor in potential interest I could earn on the $5,000 since my ROI was so quick and I have other things to do tonight ). Also, I have had some issues with TeslaFi logging, thus cannot trust that for more than a SC vs other charging %. One item I neglected is vampire drain and heating drain as the lifetime 330wh is from the car's lifetime meter, thus it is probably a chunk higher than that. Here you are:

View attachment 371299

I think if anyone did 30k miles a year with no way of charging at home they would keep it also. It’s certainly not the norm and it shows how extreme a case it should be to justify keeping it.

 

[M3P Driver]

I'm still on the fence with this one, anyone else have any regrets with their decision, either way? Tesla says I need to decide in the next day or so. So far, in 7 months, I've SuperCharged roughly 10k miles. At $.28/KWH, I've used about $740 worth. If the Robo-taxi ever happens, I wonder if they'll allow FUSC? They allow it for Turo users, I believe.

 

[mswlogo]

I'm still on the fence with this one, anyone else have any regrets with their decision, either way? Tesla says I need to decide in the next day or so. So far, in 7 months, I've SuperCharged roughly 10k miles. At $.28/KWH, I've used about $740 worth. If the Robo-taxi ever happens, I wonder if they'll allow FUSC? They allow it for Turo users, I believe.

If you are using it at that rate you might as well keep it.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Yup. That looks like it will pay for itself in 5 years at that rate. Maybe sooner if electricity goes up. I only pay about 10 cents here.

 

[TheLocNar]

I’ve kept my free charging. Plan to keep the car for at least 10 years. And I suspect electricity will eventually become pretty expensive. Just a hunch.

 

[Yombad]

I’ve kept my free charging. Plan to keep the car for at least 10 years. And I suspect electricity will eventually become pretty expensive. Just a hunch.

I also kept the free Supercharging, but recently my account listing changed to "Pay Per Use Supercharging". I'm still charging for free, but wondering if any of you who kept the FUSC are seeing the same language now under your Model 3 account?

 

[MacGreiner]

I traded mine for $5k. Probably do 4000 mls per year on supercharging. I made the right decision.

 

[gilscales]

I've SuperCharged roughly 10k miles. At $.28/KWH, I've used about $740 worth

I go by what it would cost me at home as long as I was in home range when using the SC or less than half of that $0.13 per kWh, I only use the SC if I'm away from home and if all of your use was out of home range I would count it at full price