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Porsche Mission E
- Thread starter MartinAustin
- Start date
brucet999
Active Member
Are you referring to their cheating on diesel emissions testing?
Volkswagen, Audi accused of using software to cheat US diesel emissions tests - Yahoo News
Maybe they will commit to EVs as a form of penance?
Hey guys my first post.
I am waiting to order a 90D to replace my 2013 BMW 750 lease once it gets the Model X updates - hopefully very soon.
I also currently have a 2014 BMW X5 and 2014 BMW i3. Plus a 2014 Porsche 991 Turbo S. I love cars!
Competition is a very good thing. I only want EVs in future. Well maybe a 991.2 GT3 when it comes out.
Anyways - Tesla I see becoming the new BMW and an energy company along side it. I hope so I own Tesla stock.
But Porsche is Porsche. They always low ball and hedge themselves on their estimates. Just like what they did with the Mission E performance specs. 0-60mph in less than 3.5sec and the 1/4mile in less than 12secs. My 991 Turbo S is quoted as doing 0-60mph in 3.1secs (it's the convertible). But I can tell you it does it in 2.5sec time and time again consistently. I know.
Porsche just won Le Man in their 919 Hybrid race car. The Mission E borrows a lot of that experience. Their race experience gives them a massive edge in pushing the boundaries of what is possible. I think A123 is their partner in building the 919.
My Mission E purchase order from the dealer states a 2017 model year. The Mission E is much closer than being advertised. The concept was driven on and off the stage let's not forget. And just like the 918 concept the Mission E road car will be very close to the concept. It's built just like the BMW i3 with a carbon stub and suicide doors. The majority of the technology exists.
I look forward to Tesla and Porsche ownership and a pure EV future.
I am waiting to order a 90D to replace my 2013 BMW 750 lease once it gets the Model X updates - hopefully very soon.
I also currently have a 2014 BMW X5 and 2014 BMW i3. Plus a 2014 Porsche 991 Turbo S. I love cars!
Competition is a very good thing. I only want EVs in future. Well maybe a 991.2 GT3 when it comes out.
Anyways - Tesla I see becoming the new BMW and an energy company along side it. I hope so I own Tesla stock.
But Porsche is Porsche. They always low ball and hedge themselves on their estimates. Just like what they did with the Mission E performance specs. 0-60mph in less than 3.5sec and the 1/4mile in less than 12secs. My 991 Turbo S is quoted as doing 0-60mph in 3.1secs (it's the convertible). But I can tell you it does it in 2.5sec time and time again consistently. I know.
Porsche just won Le Man in their 919 Hybrid race car. The Mission E borrows a lot of that experience. Their race experience gives them a massive edge in pushing the boundaries of what is possible. I think A123 is their partner in building the 919.
My Mission E purchase order from the dealer states a 2017 model year. The Mission E is much closer than being advertised. The concept was driven on and off the stage let's not forget. And just like the 918 concept the Mission E road car will be very close to the concept. It's built just like the BMW i3 with a carbon stub and suicide doors. The majority of the technology exists.
I look forward to Tesla and Porsche ownership and a pure EV future.
Welcome. Wouldn't a 2017 model year mean they will start production in less than a year? Find that a little hard to believe unless Porsche is just trying to trick everyone with the press release and then surprise us with a rollout two years earlier.
I was surprised too. I suspect it would be a late 2017 model at best. They like to release new models around this time of year and then stagger varients into the following year Q1.
Are you referring to their cheating on diesel emissions testing?
Volkswagen, Audi accused of using software to cheat US diesel emissions tests - Yahoo News
Maybe they will commit to EVs as a form of penance?
Shades of LG cheating on efficiency testing of their fridges:
LG Under The Gun for Cheating on Energy Efficiency Testing : TreeHugger
800 Volt DC charging could be the "Hydrogen" of the EV World.
It would seems that all the makers are converging on 300 to 400 volts DC, not to mention the chargers. Circontrol is a major maker, their designs are 500VDC max. CHAdeMO is 500VDC, DC Combo is 450VDC... You get the idea that there will be nowhere to fast charge your new 800V Mission.
Porche is being fanciful to think that 800VDC is a good idea and clearly haven't thought about it.
What about the other 'specifications' for this car?
It would seems that all the makers are converging on 300 to 400 volts DC, not to mention the chargers. Circontrol is a major maker, their designs are 500VDC max. CHAdeMO is 500VDC, DC Combo is 450VDC... You get the idea that there will be nowhere to fast charge your new 800V Mission.
Porche is being fanciful to think that 800VDC is a good idea and clearly haven't thought about it.
What about the other 'specifications' for this car?
Why? Assuming no phase issues, power = current*voltage. If you want to increase charging rate you can increase voltage, current or both. As far as charging infrastructure, Tesla is the only one out there with anything remotely practical for long trips. Tesla has started using water cooled cables so they are thinner and can eventually handle increased current. The fact that this is Porsche talking makes me pause before dismissing things. Porsche has an excellent engineering group and has designed electric vehicles before. I certainly don't consider myself as skilled as the Porsche engineering staff.
Since this car is a prototype, I doubt the final car, if made, will look the same. If it is close, I expect it will sell well even without a good charging infrastructure. Should Audi/Porsche decide to build out a high power charging infrastructure they are certainly capable of executing on the project.
I think we are finally seeing the gauntlet thrown down. Tesla has about 3 years to shift from being a quirky, unique electric car to one that competes across the board including on interior features. Yes, I am thinking mundane things like usable cup holders, storage, and coat hooks. That is why I am eager to see the real Model X. It is the first Tesla designed with a somewhat normal sized engineering staff.
I must say that despite my comment above, I consider the Supercharger network a huge advantage for Tesla. If, car to car, Tesla is close then the charging network will push people to decide in favor of Tesla. It is my hope that Apple and Google will work with Tesla rather than designing a separate charging network.
No one really questions the "engineerabilty" of their proposals.
It is not that 800V battery or charger cannot exist or work.
It is just that it does not make sense and it wont be a better car because of it. In everyday life it would be a worse car for lack of 800V chargers and higher safety demands.
Insulating 400V is still much different than insulating 800V.
jgs
Active Member
By the way, the Tesla cables have been uniformly reported as "liquid-cooled", not "water-cooled". I wasn't able to easily find out what the liquid is, but it would be kind of surprising if Tesla had chosen a conductive liquid for this purpose.
Porsche annnounces BEV version of 911 - "Mission E"
That concept car could certainly sell if built, but doubt it will sell "well" because it will likely be priced far higher than the Model S (of course it's targeted at a somewhat different market segment) and I doubt there will be a useful charging network for it anywhere outside of Germany, at least not for many years after it goes on sale.
Tesla's task (make the interior a bit better) is trivial compared to what Porsche is faced with. And while Porsche screws around just trying to decide if they will build even one EV model years from now, Tesla is racing ahead in every aspect of EV design and development while Porsche has yet to offer for sale a single EV.
The Model S has taken a big bite out of Panamera sales over the past two years. The X is about to take a much bigger bite out of Cayenne sales. The Model 3 CUV in 2018 will take a big bite out of Macan sales. Porsche should be very, very worried.
I respect Porsche's engineering skills but doubt that Porsche management has the will and the vision to push for an EV future as EVs will cannabalize their ICE product line, and hence doubt they or Audi will build a truly useful charging network.
That concept car could certainly sell if built, but doubt it will sell "well" because it will likely be priced far higher than the Model S (of course it's targeted at a somewhat different market segment) and I doubt there will be a useful charging network for it anywhere outside of Germany, at least not for many years after it goes on sale.
Okay so to compete with Porsche, Tesla has to offer an improved interior with coat hooks and better cup holders and fit/finish, while to compete with Tesla, Porsche has to mass produce top quality EVs (which they have never built before and won't even start to offer before 2018 at the earliest) in multiple models to compete with the S and the X to preserve their profitable Cayenne line and the Panamera and Porsche also has to build out a useful global charging network (which it appears they are years away from even starting to create).
Tesla's task (make the interior a bit better) is trivial compared to what Porsche is faced with. And while Porsche screws around just trying to decide if they will build even one EV model years from now, Tesla is racing ahead in every aspect of EV design and development while Porsche has yet to offer for sale a single EV.
The Model S has taken a big bite out of Panamera sales over the past two years. The X is about to take a much bigger bite out of Cayenne sales. The Model 3 CUV in 2018 will take a big bite out of Macan sales. Porsche should be very, very worried.
Superchargers internally house 11 Model S chargers. Those are liquid cooled with same coolant as battery, motor and PEM. It is a 'natural development' to cool the cables with same liquid without additional reservoirs and pumps.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The VW emissions scandal has already taken $18billion off the value of the VW group (about 20% of their valuation). The costs could go higher with additional suits by CARB, and consumers as well as other worldwide regulating agencies.
I think we have to consider that there may not be any money left to develop new cars such as this Porsche (and indeed, some are predicting the collapse of the entire VW group).
I think we have to consider that there may not be any money left to develop new cars such as this Porsche (and indeed, some are predicting the collapse of the entire VW group).
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
If there was any car company's ICE line that could stand up to a BeV addition it would be Porsche. This is especially true if you believe that (1) MS has eaten into Panamera sales and (2) MX will similarly attack Cayenne sales. Moving to BeV for cars other than the 911 would not cannibalize sales if you are already having your lunch eaten.
Porsche Announces BEV Concept Car - "Mission E"
Except that the "Mission E" concept just unveiled appears to be a 911 competitor. It is not a Cayenne or Panamera competitor.
What Porsche needs is Panamera EV and a Cayenne EV to compete with the S and X. I realize that Porsche seems to have a Panamera EV in the works, maybe, but it will likely be more expensive than a comparable Model S, and of course it will not have any sort of long distance charging network. So it will fail.
Except that the "Mission E" concept just unveiled appears to be a 911 competitor. It is not a Cayenne or Panamera competitor.
What Porsche needs is Panamera EV and a Cayenne EV to compete with the S and X. I realize that Porsche seems to have a Panamera EV in the works, maybe, but it will likely be more expensive than a comparable Model S, and of course it will not have any sort of long distance charging network. So it will fail.
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