Porsche Taycan - Tesla Rival Seen Today

[JamesBrown]

People compare the Hyndai Kona to the Model 3.

That is an unfair comparison, the Kona has a much nicer interior.

 

[woodisgood]

Same size doesn't = competition. Comparing a Model 3 to the Taycan is like comparing a Kia Rio to a BMW 3 series.

Sure it does. People cross-shop on a variety of vehicle attributes. Price, size/ capacity, and performance probably being the main ones...

 

[chronopc]

That is an unfair comparison, the Kona has a much nicer interior.

The Kona also outsells the Model 3 too.

 

[Mr X]

That is an unfair comparison, the Kona has a much nicer interior.

 

[Uncle Paul]

I imagine that the Taycan will have many Porsche attributes. They tend to go their own way on things and it probably will not be cross shopped much with the Tesla.
It should have nimble handling, practical lines with form following function. The car should be well engineered and though out.
It also will have expensive options, emotional appeal, snob appeal, well assembled and up to date.
Repairs and service will be more expensive than the competition and dealerships will tend to put very high additional markups on any in short supply or highly desirable.

They will need to figure out charging networks to enable long distance travel in all the markets they will be selling.
Expect them to be put on race tracks by both factory and independent teams.
They should have excellent high speed handling and cruising ability on the Autobahans and do well on Nuerbring long tracks. They should have balanced handling and reduced lift at higher speeds, perhaps with adjustable wings and splitters.

They will have a ready market for their cars and be able to command high prices.

They will be all over any initial handling/efficiency/quality issues. They tend to come up the precision curve very quickly in the first years of production, then tend to continously improve with each new model year.

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

Perhaps. I wonder what they could possibly do beyond a standard high-end German interior that would wow us so?

This thing has been billed (mostly by media and shorts) from the very beginning as a Tesla-killer. It has its niche for sure, but don't see how it could possibly come close to being a "killer."

To be a Tesla-killer, a vehicle will need to compete on features/performance, AND be priced so ridiculously low (from the manufacturer's perspective) that they'd nearly go out of business making it. Otherwise the very best you can do is make a mildly compelling "alternative" for people who want a more luxurious interior or an ICE brand or are averse to Elon/Tesla. That's great for all of us, but the unfortunate reality for folks wishing for a "Tesla-killer" is they ain't gonna get one.

A true Tesla killer would need deep pockets and be a ground up EV only brand to not only clone Tesla's tech, but take it to the next level. Something like Byton? But at the price point... nah. If Toyota came out with a 400km electric Corolla for 20K USD, that'd be a Tesla killer.

 

[chronopc]

I imagine that the Taycan will have many Porsche attributes. They tend to go their own way on things and it probably will not be cross shopped much with the Tesla.
It should have nimble handling, practical lines with form following function. The car should be well engineered and though out.
It also will have expensive options, emotional appeal, snob appeal, well assembled and up to date.
Repairs and service will be more expensive than the competition and dealerships will tend to put very high additional markups on any in short supply or highly desirable.

They will need to figure out charging networks to enable long distance travel in all the markets they will be selling.
Expect them to be put on race tracks by both factory and independent teams.
They should have excellent high speed handling and cruising ability on the Autobahans and do well on Nuerbring long tracks. They should have balanced handling and reduced lift at higher speeds, perhaps with adjustable wings and splitters.

They will have a ready market for their cars and be able to command high prices.

They will be all over any initial handling/efficiency/quality issues. They tend to come up the precision curve very quickly in the first years of production, then tend to continously improve with each new model year.

You make a lot of good points. If I understand you correctly, people will buy it because it's a Porsche.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Exactly...

 

[JamesBrown]

Fixed it for you.

 

[juanmedina]

Fixed it for you.

fixed nothing

 

[JamesBrown]

fixed nothing

You're right. The Model 3 might have more plastic in its interior than the Little Tikes car.

I am clearly joking, but my original point is that the Model 3 will in no way be considered comparable to the Taycan. The Model 3 is a stripped down as-cheap-as-possible EV. You are paying for the great Tesla software and functionality, not the build quality. Porsche build quality and attention to detail is beautiful. The Taycan is going to be a visually beautiful car that stands out, while the Model 3 just looks like a nice Mazda 3. No one will ever cross shop the two, even if they are similar in size. It is like cross shopping a Ford Expedition and Range Rover Autobiography LWB.

 

[run-the-joules]

Perhaps. I suspect the shortcomings that the Porsche introduces will be worse than the shortcomings of the Tesla. But we shall see.

Yeah, time will tell. My biggest complaints about my car (and every Tesla) are things that Porsche already does properly:

1. The seats. They're available with more adjustability (including thigh support), and with cooling
2. CarPlay.

If the Taycan has autonomy on a par with what Autopilot is doing now, it's going to be a very, very serious temptation for me. I don't want to lose autonomous functions but I also don't like being uncomfortable in my car. If the Taycan is substantially less capable on the autonomy front, it won't be workable for me, though.

 

[SO16]

Yeah, time will tell. My biggest complaints about my car (and every Tesla) are things that Porsche already does properly:

1. The seats. They're available with more adjustability (including thigh support), and with cooling
2. CarPlay.

If the Taycan has autonomy on a par with what Autopilot is doing now, it's going to be a very, very serious temptation for me. I don't want to lose autonomous functions but I also don't like being uncomfortable in my car. If the Taycan is substantially less capable on the autonomy front, it won't be workable for me, though.

I do wish Tesla actually had cooling seats that pumped AC out instead of barely sucking in air. Then you don’t get sweat and whatever else in there. But pre-cooling the car helps.

I have used CarPlay quite a bit. I’m fine with Tesla’s system.

The charging network is a big seller for me towards Tesla. And whatever network Porsche will use, Tesla can also use. So double the access.

Not to mention that I prefer to support an American company. Especially when tax credits are used for a sale (albeit phasing our except for state credits.). I prefer to keep as much tax money in the US as possible.

And to reward Tesla for actually having the guts to do what they did. Porsche wouldn’t be moving as fast as they are now if Tesla didn’t raise the bar.

Not to mention OTA updates and Autopilot. So yeah, I’m probably only buying Teslas from here on out.

 

[SammichLover]

I would expect the Taycan to have better driving dynamics than the Model 3.

They're going to need to work pretty hard to overcome the extra 400lb (for the base?) handicap in curb weight above my car. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Of course being a Porsche market they'll aim for it'll let them them have "stock" mechanical component options, that you can option in from the factory, that'll help it a lot at the higher trim (tires, brakes, etc). And no doubt they're polishing the snot out of the design.

Given what's been said and hinted at about the battery, I'm expecting roughly Model 3 cabin/cargo room out of their larger frame. They've reportedly made a battery volume for charging speed trade-off.

 

[SammichLover]

I found a demo video.

A binnacle, how quaintly 20th century. I do have to give them their due though, requiring a co-pilot to select music is a pretty bold statement.

 

[run-the-joules]

I do wish Tesla actually had cooling seats that pumped AC out instead of barely sucking in air. Then you don’t get sweat and whatever else in there. But pre-cooling the car helps.

They don't even offer the ventilated seats anymore, and never did on the 3, it's pathetic to not offer them in this price range. Precooling does exactly zero for long drives.

I have used CarPlay quite a bit. I’m fine with Tesla’s system.

Great. For me, Tesla's system is garbage. I don't listen to music often, and when I do it's from my phone, which I can't browse playlists on because of the Tesla implementation. More importantly, I cannot legally access things like my audiobooks from Audible without stopping the car, so I get to decide between using my phone illegally or not having access to the content I want.

it's a *garbage* user experience, and they should be ashamed to be cutting edge in so many places, and have the connectivity of a car ten years older.

The charging network is a big seller for me towards Tesla. And whatever network Porsche will use, Tesla can also use. So double the access.

I use superchargers like… maybe once every two months? It's not much of a concern for me really.

Not to mention that I prefer to support an American company. Especially when tax credits are used for a sale (albeit phasing our except for state credits.). I prefer to keep as much tax money in the US as possible.

I've never accepted nationalism as a reason to buy inferior products. If Porsche makes a better product, I'll buy it. Right now Tesla makes the best product.

And to reward Tesla for actually having the guts to do what they did. Porsche wouldn’t be moving as fast as they are now if Tesla didn’t raise the bar.

and the Beatles get a lot of credit for where music went after what they did, but I still hate their music

Not to mention OTA updates and Autopilot. So yeah, I’m probably only buying Teslas from here on out.

OTA updates, meh. I mean sure if they're actually adding useful functionality, but if it's just fart apps and video games like it has been this year, I could not possibly care less.

Autopilot, however, is the #1 reason I bought my car and why I'm a Tesla customer. But it feels like it's stagnating and I'm getting very frustrated with Tesla's overpromising and underdelivering. If Porsche can bring out something on a par with what enhanced autopilot does now, that's the base acceptable level for me. If it can't do that, then it doesn't matter what the other stuff is like.

Unfortunately, I think that's what is going to happen: Porsche will release something that is great at everything except autonomy, and I'll just begrudgingly upgrade to a Model Y and spend a few thousand dollars trying to make the seat more comfortable.

 

[SammichLover]

OTA updates, meh. I mean sure if they're actually adding useful functionality, but if it's just fart apps and video games, I could not possibly care less.

BWHAHAHA

Autopilot, however, is the #1 reason I bought my car and why I'm a Tesla customer. But it feels like it's stagnating....

DWI is also another moving vehicle law you should acquaint yourself with and endeavor to avoid violating.

 

[run-the-joules]

DWI is also another moving vehicle law you should acquaint yourself with and endeavor to avoid violating.

The day to day operation hasn't improved with AP any time recently that I've seen. Granted I don't exactly push the boundaries of operation with it, but nav on autopilot is tits-on-a-bull level of useless for my commute because it doesn't understand timed HOV lanes, nor does it understand left-side freeway onramps and offramps. So while I can use NOA on weekend trips if I'm going somewhere, it's not a significant addition for me.

Letting me tap the park button a couple of times and then hit a direction for auto-summon on exit, like the Model S & X do, and like the manual says the 3 does? That'd be nice.

Enhanced summon? That'd be nice.

Stopping for red lights? That'd be nice.

But my day to day experience hasn't changed for quite some time.

 

[SammichLover]

The day to day operation hasn't improved with AP any time recently

that I've seen.

Thus my concern about your sobriety while operating the vehicle.

 

[SO16]

I think that's what is going to happen: Porsche will release something that is great at everything except autonomy,

And I think you have a big surprise coming.... and not for the better. But hopefully I’m wrong as every automaker making EVs just legitimizes them even more.

I don’t use Supercharging extremely often either but for the places I have wanted to go, supercharging has made it easy for those destinations.

Inferior is in the eye of the beholder I guess based on what’s important to you. If Tesla and Porsche are on par, then I choose Tesla because it’s American. If Porsche was just vastly better in the things that truly matter to me, then id choose Porsche.

I don’t listen to audiobooks. I have a playlist predefined on my phone for the tracks that I want. Set it and forget it.

Can’t you just say “hey Siri” to pick what you want?

I have ventilated seats in my S. Don’t work very well so I don’t use them.

I like the OTA Sentry mode and some other security features like pin to drive. I don’t care about fart apps either.

I’m also not a fan of some of those Porsche designs. I think the S looks better.

Have fun with your Porsche if you get one.