NigelM
Recovering Member
Prediction: the autopilot function will have a max speed programmed in. Wouldn't surprise me if that is set never to exceed 80mph no matter what (that seems to be the limit on most loaner cars).
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Prank road sign fools Speed Assist.
- Thread starter BrianMA
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- Model S User Interface
You have autopilot enabled on the freeway. Model S is keeping your lane and watching out for you. You enter a curve at 60 MPH where the lane markers have faded or partially disappeared. Model S cannot determine where the lane is, so it returns control back to you. In the middle of a curve at 60 MPH. What happens?
This is bound to happen some day. I just keep thinking of I'robot. Two people jump out in front of a fast moving autopilot MS which can't stop in time. The car has 2 options. Choice 1 will leave the child with 40% probability of living and kill the adult. Choice 2 will kill the child but leave the adult with an 90% probability of living. How is the car programmed? Try to Save the child? Save the adult? I know what I would choose. The car would probably choose differently. Can you live with that?
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
You're not supposed to go to sleep in the back seat.
If the car gets confused, you need to steer it (duh).
If people jump out in front of the car. It will stop as fast as it can (and with a much better reaction time than a human driver).
If the car gets confused, you need to steer it (duh).
If people jump out in front of the car. It will stop as fast as it can (and with a much better reaction time than a human driver).
PeterW
Member
A good up to date navagation system will know what the speed limit is based on GPS (your location). I would believe that the cameras reading the speed signs would only alter your speed if it was lower than the speed limit for your location; for example, road works signs.
In one video, i think the Bloomberg one, about the D event, Elon Musk was asked about if someone had jumped out in front of the car.
He basically said it would do it's best to stop, but it can't defy physics. "It can't do impossible things."
He basically said it would do it's best to stop, but it can't defy physics. "It can't do impossible things."
What people are supposed to do and what they do can be two completely different things. When your car keeps the lane for you (negating the need to hold the wheel), sets its speed for you (negating the need to have your foot on the pedal or read signs), and checks your blind spots for you (negating the need for you to turn your head or look into the mirror), do you honestly think people are going to pay the same level of attention to their driving when the car performs these tasks?
Sure they are supposed to. But will they? Or might someone be in the middle of skimming through an email when the car suddenly decides to return control because it doesn't know where it's supposed to go? In the middle of a curve... going 70 MPH... you get the idea. I'm sure they've thought of everything. I hope.
I don't think there will be anything sudden about the return of control.
The car will need enough data to continue autopilot for the next several seconds at least (visual, radar, etc). If that data is interrupted you will probably get a warning of some kind (visual and audible) and a minimum of a few seconds to get the wheel and make a decision. Plenty of time, really. And it is quite possible that the data gap will be filled before then and the car will be able to maintain control if desired.
Speculation, of course, but speculation that makes sense with what I've seen so far.
The car will need enough data to continue autopilot for the next several seconds at least (visual, radar, etc). If that data is interrupted you will probably get a warning of some kind (visual and audible) and a minimum of a few seconds to get the wheel and make a decision. Plenty of time, really. And it is quite possible that the data gap will be filled before then and the car will be able to maintain control if desired.
Speculation, of course, but speculation that makes sense with what I've seen so far.
On a long trip, that is recipe for falling asleep at the wheel in the quiet Model S cabin. I hope there is a lot of beeping (or beeping with increasing volume) that could try to wake someone up.
-m
I am more concerned with deer/elk/moose/cow jumping in front of the car than I am with people because animal strikes happen much more often. There needs to be a system that alerts you to the fact that there are animals within 50 metres and advise reducing speed so the auto-avoidance system has a reasonable chance of working should they start running across the road. Just the other day I had three deer cross in front of me with about one second to spare, it was only luck that I wasn't a second earlier because there was zero warning.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
The beeping would likely wake me up but if not, the road is likely clear. Either way the car can turn on the emergency flashers drop speed by 10mph per second or two and stop on the shoulder leaving the flashers going. The acceleration alone would be enough to wake me up as it would no longer be the steady state that lulled me to sleep. I could then pull back onto the road and drive myself to a hotel or rest stop as needed.
Darn tootin they'll have to plan on this contingency and I'm assuming the correct option is to pull to a stop if the driver is asleep.
Yeah, pondering all this, I too think that the "moral dilemma calculation" is going to be something causing much debate in upcoming years. For random, "car did the wrong thing" situations where it drove off the road due to a programming error one can say "it is still safer than a real driver based on statistics" and move on, but when the software has to pick which horrible outcome from the "rock and hard place" situations there is likely to be someone who disagrees strongly with whatever choice was done and won't let it go.
The "hit the deer in the road" instead of "dangerous swerve on the shoulder" situation may come up as well.
Skotty
2014 S P85 | 2023 F-150L
The processing power, memory, adaptability, and sensor inputs of a human will for a long time be better than what can made affordable on a car. I'll concede that some humans may at times focus elsewhere to the point where an autopilot might be periodically safer, but I firmly believe that a human is always capable of being a safer driver than an autopilot system.
Computers having a better reaction time is debatable. It's more than just how quickly can you press on the brake. It's also how quickly you can detect a potential problem that may need a reaction. In limited cases, a computer system might be able to detect problems sooner, but I would guess much of the time a human will. Example. You see your neighbors kid running near the street. He disappears behind an RV, but you know he's there, and you know his house is on the other side of the street. You saw him run across the street this way a couple of weeks ago. You fully expect him to blindly run across the street in front of you, so you slow way down. How much of that will a self driving car figure out? The human can react sooner.
The painted over speed limit sign is a good example of why you shouldn't have too much faith in self driving cars. A human will be much harder to fool. A human will likely be able to tell that some jerk painted over the speed limit, they will likely know the speed limit from past trips on the road, and failing all that, a human has a situational awareness of what speed is safe for the given road conditions. Computers can be programmed to emulate our abilities to an extent, but only in special cases do they exceed them. I'm not against autopilot systems trying to aid driving. That's fine. But I get tired of the argument that humans are inferior and that driving would be better if turned over to computers.
I do look forward to seeing how annoyed people get when their auto-pilot cars won't exceed the speed limit. That will be funny. What won't be funny is when the governing bodies require cars to start making unstoppable chimes like with unbuckled seat belts whenever you are over the speed limit.
Computers having a better reaction time is debatable. It's more than just how quickly can you press on the brake. It's also how quickly you can detect a potential problem that may need a reaction. In limited cases, a computer system might be able to detect problems sooner, but I would guess much of the time a human will. Example. You see your neighbors kid running near the street. He disappears behind an RV, but you know he's there, and you know his house is on the other side of the street. You saw him run across the street this way a couple of weeks ago. You fully expect him to blindly run across the street in front of you, so you slow way down. How much of that will a self driving car figure out? The human can react sooner.
The painted over speed limit sign is a good example of why you shouldn't have too much faith in self driving cars. A human will be much harder to fool. A human will likely be able to tell that some jerk painted over the speed limit, they will likely know the speed limit from past trips on the road, and failing all that, a human has a situational awareness of what speed is safe for the given road conditions. Computers can be programmed to emulate our abilities to an extent, but only in special cases do they exceed them. I'm not against autopilot systems trying to aid driving. That's fine. But I get tired of the argument that humans are inferior and that driving would be better if turned over to computers.
I do look forward to seeing how annoyed people get when their auto-pilot cars won't exceed the speed limit. That will be funny. What won't be funny is when the governing bodies require cars to start making unstoppable chimes like with unbuckled seat belts whenever you are over the speed limit.
Only in some cases. A sensor suite which includes infra-red cameras to spot potential deer strikes would be far better than any human could ever be. Of course, the combination of a human and an auto-pilot would be the best--assuming that the human is alert. However, we know that humans are often not that alert for one reason or another.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
You can already tell the speed assist not to warn you unless you've exceeded the limit by a certain amount. Given that Tesla has a propensity to let you make your own decisions on things like this (e.g. touch screen not locking functions out while car is moving). I don't think you'll see them preventing you from speeding. Now I could see some government deciding to mandate that Tesla does that. But I think that's far off in the future.
majorlance
Member
I recently drove a 2015 Mercedes S550 and used it's automated cruise control and lane management. Drove on both the highway and a two lane country road.
It did an amazing job in stop and go traffic on the (Washington, DC) beltway. Had to keep my hand on the wheel or I received a warning. Once traffic started moving it gently kept the car in the lane but warned me if I took my hands off the wheel.
On the country lane, it was able to stay with traffic as the speed limit changed. But it couldn't always see the lane markings and lane management was much less effective.
I really liked both features and have high hopes for the Tesla features... just not certain how Jetson-like it will be or even if all of it is really needed at this point. Something in the middle between nothing and everything might be pretty nice...
It did an amazing job in stop and go traffic on the (Washington, DC) beltway. Had to keep my hand on the wheel or I received a warning. Once traffic started moving it gently kept the car in the lane but warned me if I took my hands off the wheel.
On the country lane, it was able to stay with traffic as the speed limit changed. But it couldn't always see the lane markings and lane management was much less effective.
I really liked both features and have high hopes for the Tesla features... just not certain how Jetson-like it will be or even if all of it is really needed at this point. Something in the middle between nothing and everything might be pretty nice...
mknox
Well-Known Member
Cadillac's SuperCruise works similarly, but I think you just have to touch the wheel every so often. I think they want to make sure you haven't passed out or expired behind the wheel, and the car just keeps on driving!
I believe you are going to see a rapid evolution in terms of what autopilot systems will be capable of doing, particularly as advanced sensors and communication between cars come online. It is easy to imagine systems that can detect emergency braking in any nearby car and take action before the human is even aware that the other car exists and there are already many sensors used in military applications that are far more sensitive and have much better range than unaided human perception.
I do think that the most effective system will still be one where these technologies provide feedback to the driver who ultimately is responsible for the decision making rather than a completely autonomous car for the near term, but it is quite clear that fully self-driving vehicles are not far away. Particularly on high speed, limited access highways where I think current look-ahead radar systems are probably better than human drivers and everything else is pretty close.
+1 well said. The hand wringing about legal implications is nonsense. All this technology will save lives and property by greatly diminishing rear-end accidents and pedestrian accidents.
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