Pricing/Option Aftermath: Still buying?

[Jkam]

It seems to me that there are two types of Signature reservation holders: one that put its reservation early and one that put its reservation in recently.

For the ones that put there reservation in recently, it seems entirely reasonable to charge a premium the way Tesla has revealed. These people get to cut in line by over 6-8 months.

For the ones that put the reservation in long ago, it seems they basically got shafted. Other than the extra red exterior color and white interior color there are no extras that regular model reservation holders can't get. And then when you consider that the regular reservation holders have 4 other exterior colors to choose from that aren't available for the Signature, it almost becomes a farce to the Signature holders.

I realize that there is no entitlement here, but it seems like the customers that Tesla should be taking care of the most are the early Signature reservation holders, yet they are seeing the least benefit. Not only did they put a large amount of money down early, they also probably told a few of their friends about it and got the word of mouth going.

I have to believe Tesla will do something to make it advantageous to be an early Signature reservation holder because the way things stand now, it is more of a penalty to have put a reservation early. And if they keep it the way it is now, a Signature Model X program will flop if they choose to launch one.

 

[dsm363]

I have to believe Tesla will do something to make it advantageous to be an early Signature reservation holder because the way things stand now, it is more of a penalty to have put a reservation early. And if they keep it the way it is now, a Signature Model X program will flop if they choose to launch one.

I agree with you but it'll be hard for them to make a cutoff date for Signature series reservations and not anger the later reservation holders. They probably just need to treat all of the Signature reservation holders the same and come up with some option package or similar for free or a discount. At the least there shouldn't be a $5,000 Signature penalty just for the paint and early delivery.

 

[Charged_Up]

From what I've seen so far, I'm also disappointed by the fact that the sig is more expensive than a comparable optioned 85 kw model and yet you have fewer choices with the sig - less colors, mandatory performance tires etc. you seem to be paying a premium for less choice and no appreciable benefit. Maybe if they included the piano roof or allowed down options it would seem more attractive. Certainly for the full price with delivery it doesn't seem like the sig is so special except for early delivery. I have a low sig # so I nw have to find out what happens if I downgrade ....

 

[eledille]

I always planned on getting the 300 mile version anyway, so I'm mostly happy. I have to wait for the EU pricing, switching dollars for euros and keeping the numbers unchanged seems too greedy to me. But all of this is irrelevant if I can't charge it efficiently. No 3-phase = no sale.

 

[Doug_G]

I should point out that the signature surcharge is actually $3,550 since it includes premium paint.

Of course there is no discount for down-optioning paint or wheels...

 

[Jkam]

I agree with you but it'll be hard for them to make a cutoff date for Signature series reservations and not anger the later reservation holders. They probably just need to treat all of the Signature reservation holders the same and come up with some option package or similar for free or a discount. At the least there shouldn't be a $5,000 Signature penalty just for the paint and early delivery.

I realize at this point Tesla cannot make subclasses of Signature reservations, so whatever they do, if they choose to do anything, will have to apply to all Signature reservations. Badging alone is not a compelling reason to buy a Signature for a premium for most people.

I have a low sig # so I nw have to find out what happens if I downgrade ....

I will wait until either more concrete information is revealed or at least until I get to test drive the car. I want to have all the facts presented to me before I make my decision, but as of now I'm disappointed to be a Signature reservation holder.

 

[Tempus]

it's funny. unlike what seems to be a lot of folks here, i don't fall in either of the potentially disappointed groups (the sig folks and the 160 pack folks). I was always planning on getting the 230 mile pack, and the options fell more or less as i expected them to in price range. Wasn't super enthused about the pricetag of the tech package, but other than that, it was about what i expected it would be.

 

[ckessel]

The more I look and price options the more I think it's just not likely Tesla could price the Sig such that I'd want it regardless. It'd absolutely have to come at a discount and/or provide more flexibility for lowering the price if an option is dropped. The big two reasons why are:
- 2nd charger. Don't want it, don't need it, a wasted $1500 for me.
- 21" wheels. I like their look, but I'd actually prefer 19". They're cheaper to buy, last longer, and generally give a better ride. That's $3750 wasted on me.

The rest of the items are fine even if I don't care much one way or the other on some. I can get a 300 mile car I'll be really happy with for 78k. The Sig would have to come in closer to $80k (and 19" wheels) than the current $88k for me.

Now, that's not all bad really. The Sig reservation was a leap of faith with some fuzzy, undefined thoughts about what "fully loaded" meant. If Tesla is nice to Sig holders that want to drop down then I'm ok with that.

 

[brianman]

I should point out that the signature surcharge is actually $3,550 since it includes premium paint.

My recollection is that the "Signature Value" for that $3,550 is (at least?):
1. advanced delivery (logistical)
2. unique red exterior (aesthetic)
3. unique white interior (aesthetic)
4. exclusivity (emotional/ego)

Tesla stock is currently at $27.57/sh. One simple fix could be to toss in 100 shares of Tesla stock with a Signature purchase, dropping the Signature price for the list of 4 above to $793. Done.

No technical issues involved, just financial.

OR

"True believers" in Tesla (and EV) that have Signature reserves and can afford it, just allow Tesla to take that profit as a donation from you for "the cause".

 

[Larry Chanin]

While I know some were happy, I also know there was a lot of disappointment regarding some of the pricing (3.7K for tech? ugh) and options (no Supercharger access for 160) released yesterday. So, with the dust beginning to settle (there are still some things that need to be clarified), where do you stand? Are you still planning on purchasing the Model S? If you are, are you getting the same options that you originally planned? Upgrading? Downgrading?

Personally, I'm still wavering a bit between keeping it the same and downgrading my reservation.

Hi,

Yes, I'm still planning on going ahead with a purchase, but its hard to say what I originally planned.

You see my thoughts regarding options have evolved from when I initially placed my General Production reservation to the present. Historically I drive very little so my first inclination was naturally to get the smallest battery pack and save a lot of money. However, after doing more reading on range considerations, i.e. battery aging, highway speed effect on range, ability to handle fast charging, overall performance, etc., I eventually came to realize that I should bite the bullet and plan on getting the "300 mile" battery pack.

Beyond the battery pack I really hadn't decided on what other options were "must haves". Living in a warm climate I all but ruled out the panoramic roof because Tesla made no provision for a sunshade. Now I see they have added a manual sunshade and the price seems to be reasonable for such a large roof so I am leaning towards getting it.

One disappointment is we can't get the turbine wheels with regular tires. I think the turbine wheels look great, but I am concerned that upgrading to the 21" performance tires I would be spending a sizeable amount that would end up both detracting from riding comfort and reducing tire life. Some have suggested that after 10,000 miles each $300 tire would have to be replaced. Does anyone have any information on this issue?

I wasn't at all surprised by the Signature pricing premium. When I attended the Fremont event one of our Tesla escorts said that the Signature wouldn't cost too much more than a Standard model with comparable options. I had seriously been considering upgrading to a Signature if the premium wasn't too much. However, now with actual pricing my current thinking is that paying a premium of over $4,000 for exclusive badging, one special color and a slightly earlier delivery is hard to justify, especially when I have to add sizeable amounts for sales tax and destination fee.

One thing that's nice to know from this pricing exercise is how much my wife loves me. :biggrin: This morning when I showed her the pricing of a Signature she said, "Wow thats a lot, but if that's what you want go ahead and get it!" Now that she's been so nice, I guess its up to me to show a bit of restraint to stay with the General Production reservation and try to keep the options under control. :redface:

Larry

 

[brianman]

This morning when I showed her the pricing of a Signature she said, "Wow thats a lot, but if that's what you want go ahead and get it!"

I get the feeling Christmas will be costly for Larry, unless she's one of those "craft me something instead of buying something" wives.

 

[strider]

I should point out that the signature surcharge is actually $3,550 since it includes premium paint.

Of course there is no discount for down-optioning paint or wheels...

For a Performance model the difference is $5,050.
84,900 base
1,500 paint
3,750 tech
950 audio
250 shelf
1500 20kW charger

$92,850 for non-Sig performance
$97,900 for Sig performance
$5,050 difference

 

[brianman]

1,500 paint

Doug's number is correct. You should be comparing with the base as if the premium white was a required option.

 

[markwj]

So, with the dust beginning to settle (there are still some things that need to be clarified), where do you stand? Are you still planning on purchasing the Model S? If you are, are you getting the same options that you originally planned? Upgrading? Downgrading?

Range on my roadster is more than adequate for where I live. I was always planning something equivalent for my Model S - 2xx mile pack (60KWh), and that still seems right for me.

So, pricing is about what I expected, options the same. No changes and I'm happy.

P.S. I'll add the tech bundle because I'm a geek, and the rear child seats, because I'm a geek with a bunch of kids. I'll skip the pano roof, because I'm a geek without much coverage on top and it is sunny where I live.

 

[smorgasbord]

Some answers from Tesla

So I stopped by Tesla Santana Row on my way home from work. As you might imagine, there's a lot of buzz about the new pricing and people's reactions. Here is some information I got that I believe is accurate:

1) The main reason the 40kWh version does not support Quick Charging is battery life. They're guaranteeing the battery for 8 years and at that size they're worried about the effect of frequent QCing on battery life.

2) The Signatures have a better interior than the non-Signatures, even if you opt for the leather option on the non-Sigs. They couldn't be specific, but essentially the gist was "better leather and more of it." There's also a white leather option that is only available on the Signatures. So Sigs a) arrive sooner, b) can have the unique multi-coat red, c) can have the unique white interior, d) have better leather and more of it, and e) have Signature badging to make the car more collectible in the future. You can decide if that's worth the $3550/$5000.

3) The battery warranties do not yet have specifics, like what range decreases over time are acceptable. They do expect there will be some restrictions on how often you can Quick Charge. There are also things like not driving through water that's more than 5" deep, racing the car on a track, etc. that will adversely affect warranty coverage. Again, they do not yet know the specifics.

4) The non-Sig Performance package does require that you buy the $5K "Additional Standard Options" package (leather, wheels/tires, air suspension). So that's effectively $15K for performance. Expect an update on the web site to make this clearer.

5) On Sigs and Performance package, you can opt out of most options, but you won't get any money credited/refunded. So if you don't want the 21" wheels, get them anyway and sell them to pay for the 19".

6) The standard adapter for the included UMC is indeed the NEMA 14-50. They don't know what the adapters for other outlets look like yet.

7) The Tesla Motors web site is being updated frequently to help explain things better.

8) The first Supercharger in CA is going to be along the I-5 corridor (Harris Ranch I believe). There are no plans yet for one along the 101 corridor, which is serviced by HPCs with J1772s.


Finally, my own observation is that Tesla is listening and doing their best to keep up with all the feedback. They have a very calm and understanding attitude about the reaction to the pricing announcement. They believe things will settle down. They've had people cancel due to the pricing, but they've also had people put down new deposits now that pricing was available. They think once test drives start happening reservations will increase a lot. They also didn't feel that everything was set in stone. Interestingly, they said most people today are either trying to save money and get the 40kWh battery or going full boat on the 85kWh battery, but that over time they expect more people to migrate towards the middle battery as the best value.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Thanks for the very helpful posting.

Larry

 

[brianman]

Nice work, smorgasbord. Props for remembering all that (or for taking notes).

 

[Eberhard]

I am! I'll probably go for the performance version with all the options I can get

really? without 3-phase charger but a second charger you cannot use except when charing on an HPC an then only 60-63A?

 

[Eberhard]

I always planned on getting the 300 mile version anyway, so I'm mostly happy. I have to wait for the EU pricing, switching dollars for euros and keeping the numbers unchanged seems too greedy to me. But all of this is irrelevant if I can't charge it efficiently. No 3-phase = no sale.

I agree completly with you. I have given tesla a credit for nearly one year now and expect to get the car as early than another year. Better to withdraw now and get the money. Then wait and see what will happen with the european model and 3-phase charging (at least 2 phases with the second charger, otherwise being useless)

 

[Jkam]

2) The Signatures have a better interior than the non-Signatures, even if you opt for the leather option on the non-Sigs. They couldn't be specific, but essentially the gist was "better leather and more of it." There's also a white leather option that is only available on the Signatures. So Sigs a) arrive sooner, b) can have the unique multi-coat red, c) can have the unique white interior, d) have better leather and more of it, and e) have Signature badging to make the car more collectible in the future. You can decide if that's worth the $3550/$5000.

I'm interested in item e). How many Roadster signatures were made and have they held their value more than a regular Roadster?